Why is dodge and parry still in the game?

[Synche]

Nice straw man argument, Synche. I disagreed with PVP being about RNG, not about PVP being all about reacting to the situation at hand. Second straw man argument : Your comment about PVP trinkets. I won't even bother with that.

Fine. Why exactly is most of the warriors, paladins and death knights CC undodgeable/unparriable?

Mihalik says it best :

-Okey here comes IWIN button....Shit...IWIN button failed....adapt or lose. Good players learn to play around it. Bad ones QQ. Even tought it is true sometimes you just lose due to RNG.

RNG is precisely what causes people to react, there are times where I miss a shockwave, or a disarm is parried when I am at low health so then I have to Shield Wall (whereas if it wasn't parried I wouldn't).

As a rogue you have plenty of other options besides landing a stun to win a fight, just like how Casters / ranged have multiple tools to combat melee besides CC. Everyone loses to bad RNG sometimes, but more often then not it will always play in your favor.

[Tyrannica]

50ms. That's a quite good ping.



Plus parry from plate wearers...



I have had my Kidney Shot just after a Backstab parried plenty of times. That's why I love Shadowstep because it guarantees the landing.
EDIT : I just re-read my post and I was talking about Kidney Shot, but I didn't mention it for whatever reason.

1. Just say it: Deekay
2. You are rogue and complain about parries from plate wearers.
3. Strangely, rogue killed all frost deekays in Cata, one of the reasons was cause the rogue dogded everything in melee, thus wearing plate perhaps is an old mechanic, as it means nothing nowdays.

[Illana]

there are times where I miss a shockwave

That's you being bad, not anything to do with RNG

or a disarm is parried when I am at low health so then I have to Shield Wall (whereas if it wasn't parried I wouldn't).

Again, you're in a position where you'd have to wall because you've played poorly and are gambling on a disarm to save you when you haven't set yourself up to guarantee it (with a stun, fear, being behind etc)

As a rogue you have plenty of other options besides landing a stun to win a fight, just like how Casters / ranged have multiple tools to combat melee besides CC. Everyone loses to bad RNG sometimes, but more often then not it will always play in your favor.

Not really, have you seen many rogues able to just spam attacks on someone without using cc? Their target will never die because they aren't inanimate and have a brain and will be doing their best to negate the damage or do more damage back, rogues are fragile and can't stand toe-to-toe with most classes and that's why they're given the array of cc.

RNG has no place in pvp, it rewards poor play and punishes those who play well. That alone should be why it shouldn't exist.

However until they find a way of separating avoidance mechanics in pve from pvp we're stuck with this.

[Deleted]

Mihalik says it best :



RNG is precisely what causes people to react, there are times where I miss a shockwave, or a disarm is parried when I am at low health so then I have to Shield Wall (whereas if it wasn't parried I wouldn't).

As a rogue you have plenty of other options besides landing a stun to win a fight, just like how Casters / ranged have multiple tools to combat melee besides CC. Everyone loses to bad RNG sometimes, but more often then not it will always play in your favor.

You can miss Shockwave due to bad luck (target gets life gripped by coincidence, in example), but it can't be dodged or parried, so it's a poor example.
Yeah, as a rogue I have plenty of options to win a fight...yet a vast majority of my kills happen under a Kidney Shot. How will RNG play in my favour when my CC can be dodged/parried, while other classes don't face the same?

1. Just say it: Deekay
2. You are rogue and complain about parries from plate wearers.
3. Strangely, rogue killed all frost deekays in Cata, one of the reasons was cause the rogue dogded everything in melee, thus wearing plate perhaps is an old mechanic, as it means nothing nowdays.

I'm not sure why are you quoting me and talking about DKs, especially Frost ones, whose main damaging attack it a spell. If DKs died to rogues it's not because dodge, but because DKs in Cataclysm had poor survivability (it all went to Blood DKs?). They were made of paper.

Also, where did I exactly complain about parries? I was just stating the fact that now plate wearers got high parry (compared to non-tanks plate before).

[Tyrannica]

You can miss Shockwave due to bad luck (target gets life gripped by coincidence, in example), but it can't be dodged or parried, so it's a poor example.
Yeah, as a rogue I have plenty of options to win a fight...yet a vast majority of my kills happen under a Kidney Shot. How will RNG play in my favour when my CC can be dodged/parried, while other classes don't face the same?



I'm not sure why are you quoting me and talking about DKs, especially Frost ones, whose main damaging attack it a spell. If DKs died to rogues it's not because dodge, but because DKs in Cataclysm had poor survivability (it all went to Blood DKs?). They were made of paper.

Also, where did I exactly complain about parries? I was just stating the fact that now plate wearers got high parry (compared to non-tanks plate before).

The main damaging attack of fdks is not a spell, its oblit now in mists its fully physical and in melee range.
I played da frost dk in since wotlk-now in arenas. My survivability is not that poor, its just useless against rogues. read it at arena junkies too, dk section.

Dks always had the highest parry of them all. plate or not.

[Evolixe]

Why is dodge/parry still in the game?

Because pve.

[Crawford]

A caster could just as easily complain about cast-times and interrupts, which melee do not have to deal with. Dodge and parry remain in the game so tanks can have meaningful secondary stats for their role. In pvp the chance of these things happening is very low,and the output of your class is balanced around the existence of these stats

[Evolixe]

The cast times and interrupts are compensated with the fact that magic effects ignore all armor and generally hit harder.

RNG avoidance does not apply to magic, at all.

[Balduvian]

Why do we still have armor? It doesn't affect casters.

Oh and, crit? Melee tends to have a higher crit % than casters; unbalanced!

Haste! It's not fair if someone hits you every 3 seconds while you hit him every 3.2.

Indeed.

[Evolixe]

Why do we still have armor? It doesn't affect casters.

Oh and, crit? Melee tends to have a higher crit % than casters; unbalanced!

Haste! It's not fair if someone hits you every 3 seconds while you hit him every 3.2.

Indeed.

Crit is arguable. The other 2 are not RNG in any way.

[Tullkas]

chance to hit, spell pen, armor pen, dodge, parry, expertise - all should go - i dont see why they should exist in pvp. tanks can have higher mitigation from resilience for the loss of those stats.

random spell procs mechanics and crit chance is enough imo for an element of randomness.

[underdogba]

I was hoping this thread was going to be about removing dodge and parry rating from the game, because that would be incredibly logical. With the current plate tank setups, all they would have to do is make crit do something defensively, like the old druid savage defense in cata!

[Balduvian]

Crit is arguable. The other 2 are not RNG in any way.

Sure, that wasn't the point at all though.

[Evolixe]

Sure, that wasn't the point at all though.

Then what was the point? This thread is all about RNG and why it should not be there.

[Balduvian]

Then what was the point? This thread is all about RNG and why it should not be there.

There are so many things based on RNG anyway, if you'd remove them all you'd practically have a new game.

Point was, that there is none.

[Evolixe]

The game would be better without parry and dodge in pvp.
Being able to not use a 3 minute cooldown just because you happened to dodge something critical is way out of proportion.

[Balduvian]

The game would be better without parry and dodge in pvp.
Being able to not use a 3 minute cooldown just because you happened to dodge something critical is way out of proportion.

You're talking as if RNG is bad by definition, you could also see it as a challenge. Nothing wrong with a bit of RNG here and there in my opinion, and if RNG such as a dodged stun makes a person rage, then the person in question rather has a problem himself instead of the game having one.

[Evolixe]

You're talking as if RNG is bad by definition, you could also see it as a challenge. Nothing wrong with a bit of RNG here and there in my opinion, and if RNG such as a dodged stun makes a person rage, then the person in question rather has a problem himself instead of the game having one.

No. Dodging critical moves is not a challenge. It's plainly and simply unfair. And yeah, for PvP, it IS bad by definition.

[Deleted]

Get hit/expertise capped. Problem solved..?

[Evolixe]

Get hit/expertise capped. Problem solved..?

Good luck capping 17% expertise.