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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimord View Post
    Get hit/expertise capped. Problem solved..?

    /facepalm

    another pver attempting to give pvp advice

  2. #62
    Why don't we just remove all stats, then everyone can hit their abilities in the rotational order with no deviation?

  3. #63
    I am Murloc! Balduvian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holo View Post
    No. Dodging critical moves is not a challenge. It's plainly and simply unfair. And yeah, for PvP, it IS bad by definition.
    'unfair'

    Have you guys thought of the fact that all of you might be taking this game a little bit to seriously at the moment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Matchu View Post
    Why don't we just remove all stats, then everyone can hit their abilities in the rotational order with no deviation?
    Thanks.

  4. #64
    Legendary! Holo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balduvian View Post

    Have you guys thought of the fact that all of you might be taking this game a little bit to seriously at the moment?
    So asking for a fair game is taking it too seriously now?
    Dude, why are you even in this thread?

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-14 at 12:36 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Matchu View Post
    Why don't we just remove all stats, then everyone can hit their abilities in the rotational order with no deviation?
    Doesn't work that way in PvP m8, even without stats.

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  5. #65
    I am Murloc! Balduvian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holo View Post
    So asking for a fair game is taking it too seriously now?
    Dude, why are you even in this thread?
    Well, 'dude', asking for class balance is one thing, but asking for this..really?

    Yes, it's annoying and possibly gamebreaking to get a stun dodged, I know all about it. But honestly, live with it, it's part of the game and it's perfectly fine. Again, if things like these make you rage it's probably time to go see a doctor right after you cancelled your subscription.

  6. #66
    Legendary! Holo's Avatar
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    It's not fine. Honestly if control would not be dodgeable but damaging abilities would, then it would be fine.

    Why? Simply because damaging abilities have that much less of an impact on the deciding factor of a game.

    No, it does not make me rage. I'm way too calm for that. But it is not a good game mechanic.

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  7. #67
    I am Murloc! Balduvian's Avatar
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    The 'raging' part was meant in general anyway. But well, as this is merely leading to a pointless arguement about a pointless topic and neither of us is going to give in I'm going to salute you and try to find some actually interresting topics, which I doubtfully will. Cy@

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Holo View Post

    Doesn't work that way in PvP m8, even without stats.
    Because of RNG and the interaction of different stats. If everything is predictable, matches become stale. Part of the fun of PVP, for me, is my ability to react quickly to changing events (and react well). If Spell C always follows Spell B always follows Spell A, it pales.

  9. #69
    Legendary! Holo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matchu View Post
    Because of RNG and the interaction of different stats. If everything is predictable, matches become stale. Part of the fun of PVP, for me, is my ability to react quickly to changing events (and react well). If Spell C always follows Spell B always follows Spell A, it pales.
    Everything is predictable in PvP. If you aren't predicting everything then you are not a good player. Thing is that multiple things can happen, but it's all about player choice. What are they going to do, what can they do, when and how will they do it?

    You should be able to answer those questions correctly atleast 90% of the time to be a good PvP player.

    However, without stats and therefore dodge/parry/miss, there would be no RNG. But you would still not hit anything in a rotational fashion, at all.

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  10. #70
    PvP is dynamic enough without bullshit like RNG dodge and parries. Crits are really all that should be in PvP.

    Being forced to play around an arbitrary barrier that makes PvP no better is something any PvP'er who enjoys the game should be asking to get rid of.
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  11. #71
    Removing dodge and parry would mean they would need to re-balance rogue and monk. They don't even have class balance down yet, one hurdle at a time.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Balduvian View Post
    Well, 'dude', asking for class balance is one thing, but asking for this..really?

    Yes, it's annoying and possibly gamebreaking to get a stun dodged, I know all about it. But honestly, live with it, it's part of the game and it's perfectly fine. Again, if things like these make you rage it's probably time to go see a doctor right after you cancelled your subscription.
    Are you reflecting on us or something? You started with a straw man argument :

    Quote Originally Posted by Balduvian View Post
    Why do we still have armor? It doesn't affect casters.

    Oh and, crit? Melee tends to have a higher crit % than casters; unbalanced!

    Haste! It's not fair if someone hits you every 3 seconds while you hit him every 3.2.

    Indeed.
    And then you bring a much bigger straw man argument which I assume includes reflection :

    Quote Originally Posted by Balduvian View Post
    You're talking as if RNG is bad by definition, you could also see it as a challenge. Nothing wrong with a bit of RNG here and there in my opinion, and if RNG such as a dodged stun makes a person rage, then the person in question rather has a problem himself instead of the game having one.
    Seriously?
    Shadow Walk : Significantly increases Stealth effectiveness for 6 sec, but causes Stealth to be nerfed to justify its usage. In addition, it uses old Enveloping Shadows icon and has no sound, animation or spell effect to show that the skill is actually doing something.

  13. #73
    Herald of the Titans Grimord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holo View Post
    Good luck capping 17% expertise.
    Are you PvP'ing raid bosses now?


  14. #74
    Because this game is a more PvE focused game

  15. #75
    I am Murloc! Balduvian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sendai View Post
    Are you reflecting on us or something? You started with a straw man argument :

    And then you bring a much bigger straw man argument which I assume includes reflection :

    Seriously?
    Just read. Not going into this shit again.

  16. #76
    Brewmaster juzalol's Avatar
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    They are still in the game because getting rid of them would require
    a complete rework of the PvP.

    And reworking the PvP would be Lose / Lose move my Blizzard as people
    would start giant QQ fest about PvP sucking while giving Blizzard no time to
    get it right.

    But yeh, it starts to get ridiculous when your shred gets parried because of latency.

  17. #77
    Legendary! Holo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimord View Post
    Are you PvP'ing raid bosses now?
    Look, just.. leave the PvP forums alright? Because you really have no idea.

    My Rogue has 17% dodge. If you want to prevent being dodged by my Rogue, that's the amount of expertise you will need.
    A Warrior has exactly the same, but in parry. So you will need 17% expertise not to get parried by a Warrior.

    Alright class is over, time for you to go back to the Dungeon's and Raid's forum, thank you.

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  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    PvP is dynamic enough without bullshit like RNG dodge and parries. Crits are really all that should be in PvP.

    Being forced to play around an arbitrary barrier that makes PvP no better is something any PvP'er who enjoys the game should be asking to get rid of.
    Not a double-standard at all. So, how exactly is winning because of a lucky crit streak any diferent to losing because of an unlucky parry/miss? It's the same thing! And if it doesn't look like it, just have a look at the situation from the other player's perspective.

    If we're to consider RNG a bad thing, it is so in all of its incarnations, which would also include procs from weapons and trinkets. Heck, going further, if we want PvP to be solely about "skill", why not remove gear while at it?

  19. #79
    Legendary! Holo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zardi View Post
    Not a double-standard at all. So, how exactly is winning because of a lucky crit streak any diferent to losing because of an unlucky parry/miss? It's the same thing! And if it doesn't look like it, just have a look at the situation from the other player's perspective.

    If we're to consider RNG a bad thing, it is so in all of its incarnations, which would also include procs from weapons and trinkets. Heck, going further, if we want PvP to be solely about "skill", why not remove gear while at it?
    That simply never happens. You know what kind of damage certain classes are capable of and act accordingly. Losing to damage crits takes a hell of alot of luck to happen (like 1 in 100000 chance) since it would require that many crits in a row with the low crit rating we have atm. However, parries or dodges on absolutely critical control moves happens so ridiculously often that i have to deal with it EVERY. SINGLE. GAME.

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  20. #80
    Herald of the Titans Grimord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holo View Post
    Look, just.. leave the PvP forums alright? Because you really have no idea.

    My Rogue has 17% dodge. If you want to prevent being dodged by my Rogue, that's the amount of expertise you will need.
    A Warrior has exactly the same, but in parry. So you will need 17% expertise not to get parried by a Warrior.

    Alright class is over, time for you to go back to the Dungeon's and Raid's forum, thank you.
    For someone with so much "PvP experience" you really don't know how expertise and dodge work, do you? I guess you need some "PvE Hero" to give you a couple lessons.


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