Paragon just killed Will of the Emperors on heroic.

[eschatological]

thank you so much. people trying to defend 10m is just stupid. why do all of the top guilds agree, but you guys seem to think 10m is equal to 25? theres no such thing as equal in WoW... 10m has an edge whether you continue to ignore it or not.

and anyone saying, "10m is hard because EVERYONE needs to live and go 100%, While in 25m you can faceroll and people can die and you will still be fine just use your 3 Battle rezes." Have NEVER been in a serious 25m, because those statements are completely untrue. Theres a reason its called 25m and not 22m.. because YOU NEED to utilize all 25 people, in the heroic race do you honestly think anyone can die, and still beat the enrage timer? NO!

I wasn't implying 10 man was easier. I was saying it's easier when you can stack 60% of your raid with 2 currently OP classes. That's easier to do in 10 man than 25 man from a sheer numbers perspective, but harder to maintain in a progression 10 man guild than in a progression 25 man guild. We have a 13 person guild in our heroic progression 10 man. Two of them are druids. One is a warlock. We have alts, but most of them are to funnel mats to us because we don't have 100 screaming fanboys just pumping raid mats into our gbank. On H-Spine you encountered a similar problem. It was harder in 25 man, for sure. But in 25 man, it was easier to have people with mage alts wielding DTW. We had to do that fight with a hunter and a warlock, pre-nerf. If we could have stacked 2 sub rogues and 3 mages, it sure as hell would have been significantly easier than 25m.

[Karazee]

So the race is completely flawed and therefore irrelevant when guilds can clear before others even have the content.

The "race" is unofficial. It's artificially created by players, and therefore the players get to set the rules of the race. For many of us, it's quite irrelevant.

[jayinjersey]

So we can at least admit that 10 Paragon raiders are worth 25 Blood Legion ones...

[Varyk]

So we can at least admit that 10 Paragon raiders are worth 25 Blood Legion ones...

if they were exactly equal difficulty, with the same classes, same races, same professions/buffs/procs/gear, and the kills took the equivalent amount of time for the bosses health...you might be able to say that.

[Ryme]

If Paragon's Gara'jal kill was legitimate I have to bow down to these guys. In NO WAY am I accusing them of cheating but having spent about 12 hours on this boss now and our voodoo targets repeatedly killed in < 1 second from adds just makes this fight a massive wall on 10m. We've had Blizzard confirmation that the Devs are aware of balance issues with Gara'jal 10m (www.silguild.com) - including 25m respawn rates on spirit realm adds and insta-gibb voodoo dolls.

Again, if Paragon got their kill without some cheese like the haste spellsteal or mc'ing for smoke bombs, they deserve that #1 spot with ease.

Congratulations to them.

That is so disheartening to hear, hopefully it gets hotfixed real soon for you guys, best of luck!

[Wilderness]

Congrats to Paragon on their kills.

All of these threads have quickly turned into 10 vs 25 "debates" that are the same arguments thrown around and around again. There's been plenty of insulting and condescending posts thrown around in these threads that have slid by, so consider this a warning going forward.