White Supremacy or Equality?

[GreatOak]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_1954262.html

A Towson University student has proposed a campus White Student Union, leaving administrators and the student government walking a fine line between students' First Amendment rights and avoiding what many are calling outright racism at the Maryland university.
"Every ethnic group has its own advocacy group but white students don't," Matthew Heimbach, a senior studying U.S. history at Towson, told The Huffington Post.
Tensions were further inflamed last week when the group brought Jared Taylor to campus. Taylor is described by the Southern Poverty Law Center as a "white nationalist" who has argued black hate crimes against whites exponentially outnumber white-on-black hate crimes. Taylor came to offer support for the proposed White Student Union, claiming it "a spectacular double standard that only whites are singled out and told they can't have a race-based organization."

So I read this article and stumbled upon the video below. It's a bit long so I don't expect you to watch the entire thing. Basically they brought Taylor to speak and he tried to make the case for white identity. A lot of the things he said made a lot of sense to me, even if a couple proposals were radical (stopping immigration? In 2012?) . Since I'm half black myself, I've always wondered why I was tolerated to "be proud" of my black heritage but I'm not allowed to "be proud" of my Anglo-European heritage. It seems to me like a shocking double standard. I think ethnic supremacy is a dumb thing to brag about, but I believe it is definitely legitimate to be proud of your heritage and the culture of your ancestors (not you) if you so choose, no matter the race. It only seems fair to let them have their union, and if it gets out of hand then they can get it banned.

I'd like to hear your thoughts, especially since a lot of Europeans browse these boards.

[Wells]

Oh look another privileged kid doesn't really understand what "minority" means.

[Kasierith]

Oh look another privileged kid doesn't really understand what "minority" means.

Minority or no, there seems to be a definite trend of counterracism in the United States. Minority vs majority has to do with populations, not individuals.. if someone gets beat up or discriminated against because of his color, does it matter where the numbers lay in the greater scheme of things?

[Shadowmelded]

I'd like to hear your thoughts, especially since a lot of Europeans browse these boards.

My opinion is while I'm sure there are plenty of black racists, living as a white person today there is no comparison to be made between the persecution of black people historically that has carried over into subtle racism in modern times, and the 'hardships' that white people go through that are almost never due to race but other factors. So to claim that we are being somehow disproportionately disadvantaged and that the 'real bad guys' are actually black people is pretty perverse and morally abhorrant.

[GreatOak]

Oh look another privileged kid doesn't really understand what "minority" means.

You know nothing about me other than my race, so please...save it.

I'm far from privileged.

[Wells]

You know nothing about me other than my race, so please...save it.

I'm far from privileged.

Maybe I was talking about the kid you just made a thread about.

Minority or no, there seems to be a definite trend of counterracism in the United States. Minority vs majority has to do with populations, not individuals.. if someone gets beat up or discriminated against because of his color, does it matter where the numbers lay in the greater scheme of things?

Not sure what this has to do with anything. Of course that's not ok. It doesn't make it any less stupid to set up an advocacy group for the majority.

[GreatOak]

My opinion is while I'm sure there are plenty of black racists, living as a white person today there is no comparison to be made between the persecution of black people historically that has carried over into subtle racism in modern times, and the 'hardships' that white people go through that are almost never due to race but other factors. So to claim that we are being somehow disproportionately disadvantaged and that the 'real bad guys' are actually black people is pretty perverse and morally abhorrant.

There are actual inequalities and issues that exist against whites though. Do they have to be equal in order for them to have a voice?

[Shadowmelded]

There are actual inequalities and issues that exist against whites though. Do they have to be equal in order for them to have a voice?

No, they should be adressed, but there should be less emphasis on 'OH LOOK, WE'RE NOT SO BAD AFTER ALL, THEY DO IT TOO' or 'WE WERE THE GOOD GUYS ALL ALONG BECAUSE THEY'RE SECRETLY RACIST' which seems to be really really prevelant in todays society.

Wrongs should be addressed, pride should be left at the door.

[GreatOak]

Maybe I was talking about the kid you just made a thread about.


Not sure what this has to do with anything. Of course that's not ok. It doesn't make it any less stupid to set up an advocacy group for the majority.

Okay, fine. I agree with him though that he should be allowed to talk about white issues, because there are some. They also can talk about Western Culture and their group wouldn't exclude non-whites. I'm in the black culture group in my school and I would like it if we had a European culture group as well. If they want to eventually twist their group into a hateful, racist agenda then that says something about them as people, not the conception of the group.

[Grizzly Willy]

Then let's get rid of all advocacy groups and start acting like decent goddamn people. I don't see why a majority can't form a group to deal with issues while other people can.

[Wells]

There's a pretty big difference between a german heritage club and a white advocacy group though.

Then let's get rid of all advocacy groups and start acting like decent goddamn people. I don't see why a majority can't form a group to deal with issues while other people can.

Setting up an advocacy group for the majority power is stupid because they're just going to be advocating to themselves. That's what it means to be the majority, you're the group with the power.

[bayushisan]

There is a double standard when it comes to being proud of your heritage. If a person is a minority and they have pride in their heritage they're seen as being in touch with their roots and being somehow more enlightened. If a white person even hints that they are proud of their heritage they get called racist.

Why is there a difference? I'm certainly glad that I was born the way I was and I don't hate other cultures. I may not always understand other cultures but I don't think that I'm innately superior just because I was born white.

[darsh333]

Personally I think all of these groups promote the continuation of racism based on ethnicity. Regardless of what country you are from it shouldn't publicly matter where you ancestors came from. Take pride in it at home but you don't need to shout it in the street. It is literally irrelevant and has no bearing on anything. Would be interesting to live long enough to see people judge on the merit of their character.

I totally understand why minority groups have these establishments and it makes sense but as time goes they should be phased out. As far as white groups go the two year old approach of well he did it first or but I want one too is ridiculous. How does that saying go? Be the change you want.

[Grizzly Willy]

How about an Anglo heritage group then? Let's splinter this all the way down. I'll join the Cajun/German/French Canadian heritage club.

[Kasierith]

Not sure what this has to do with anything. Of course that's not ok. It doesn't make it any less stupid to set up an advocacy group for the majority.

You must understand, coming from where I do things like racial tensions just.. don't matter nearly as much. While we of course have minorities, they're such an absolute minority that things like stereotypes really don't take off and stick, and even at major institutions like Moscow State University their populations don't amount for even a small percentage.

So explain to me, why is it that the majority is forbidden by societal pressures to form an advocacy group focused on itself, if they are not perpetrating hate crimes and violence and racism? To me, thats like saying that because there is an imbalance between men and women in modern society that sexism against men in terms of certain job placements, court decisions, and dating should never be examined.

My opinion is while I'm sure there are plenty of black racists, living as a white person today there is no comparison to be made between the persecution of black people historically that has carried over into subtle racism in modern times, and the 'hardships' that white people go through that are almost never due to race but other factors. So to claim that we are being somehow disproportionately disadvantaged and that the 'real bad guys' are actually black people is pretty perverse and morally abhorrant.

I do not believe that the article in any way was making such a claim. It was pointing out the double standard that exists in terms of looking at racism; much like the double standard that says that women can't be sexist and use men for just their bodies.

[Wells]

There is a double standard when it comes to being proud of your heritage. If a person is a minority and they have pride in their heritage they're seen as being in touch with their roots and being somehow more enlightened. If a white person even hints that they are proud of their heritage they get called racist.

Why is there a difference? I'm certainly glad that I was born the way I was and I don't hate other cultures. I may not always understand other cultures but I don't think that I'm innately superior just because I was born white.

If you say you're proud to be the descendant of irish immigrants who came over during the potato famine no one will bat an eye.

There's a difference between saying "I'm proud of being white" vs "I'm proud of being black" though. Black history in the US is pretty much a constant 300 year story of oppression and adversity with an uptick in recent times.

---------- Post added 2012-10-11 at 06:44 PM ----------

So explain to me, why is it that the majority is forbidden by societal pressures to form an advocacy group focused on itself, if they are not perpetrating hate crimes and violence and racism?

Who said it was forbidden? I said it was stupid and gave a pretty clear reason.

[GreatOak]

There's a pretty big difference between a german heritage club and a white advocacy group though.

Setting up an advocacy group for the majority power is stupid because they're just going to be advocating to themselves. That's what it means to be the majority, you're the group with the power.

That makes sense, but all other groups are usually based on color as well. In my view you either allow all such groups to exist, or not at all. Even if racism still exists, it's hardly as bad as it was 50 years ago. I lived in literally one of the most dangerous neighborhoods in any developed nation in the world, and I barely encountered direct, willful racism. Institutional racism like the drug war , prison system, and MIC is a completely different beast.
The proposed group would also discuss culture and current events. I don't see a problem with that.

[chadwix]

Doing things for your own race is perfectly legal, ever heard of the united negro college fund? You just cant do negative things to other races based on their race.

I still find catering to someone's skin color over their achievements non productive. Excuses are excuses, grow up

[Wells]

It just seems fairly clear to be fueled be a sense of pique and outrage of perceived unfairness honestly.

[Verain]

There's a difference between saying "I'm proud of being white" vs "I'm proud of being black" though.

Both of them are being proud of a birth condition.

There's tons of admirable things done by all races. But the connection to YOU personally with some amazing person who shares a geographic region of genetic origin? Not actually extant.

I would suggest being very cautious of anyone who is "proud" of such a non-accomplishment.