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  1. #601
    Quote Originally Posted by Semihage View Post
    It cost 10 bucks to unlock all bars permanently. I actually don't find that too shabby.. That's less than 1 month of subscription.
    Compared to what other F2P MMOs have offered for those same 10 dollars? It's a rip off. I understand that they have to monetize aspects of the game that might annoy players who haven't unlocked it, but pricing things properly is an important part of that, and given that you don't really need those extras except maybe in the case where you plan on sticking around, a price like that doesn't invite the player to make the purchase.

    $3 for those, and maybe make a package deal where $10 unlocks it for every character you make, or is part of unlocking other options they've monetized? Ok, now you're looking at a scenario where the player is much more like to either pay to unlock those extra bars they don't really need, or pay the $10 to unlock multiple things at once.

    Given the growing F2P/non-subscription based market, it would be in EA's best interest to make the F2P portion of the game as inviting as possible, and then make the stuff that is monetized on top of that even more attractive. They simply aren't.

  2. #602
    Quote Originally Posted by Berethos08 View Post
    Compared to what other F2P MMOs have offered for those same 10 dollars? It's a rip off.
    It would be a rip off if it were true.
    Lv40 (Firefall) Dragonfly, Mammoth, Nighthawk, Arsenal, Tigerclaw
    Lv50 (FF14) Paladin, Warrior (Swtor) Agent, Warrior, Knight, Inquisitor, Trooper, Consular, Smuggler, Hunter
    Lv60 (NWO) Rogue, Fighter, Wizard, Guardian, Cleric (Rift) Rogue
    Lv80/85 (GW2) Thief (WoW) Rogue, Mage, Priest, Hunter, Warlock, Warrior, Death Knight, Paladin, Druid, Shaman

  3. #603
    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    It would be a rip off if it were true.
    Do F2P players not start with 2 action bars? According to the store's description of the item, unlocking one action bar is 250 coins. If it takes 4 of those to unlock all the action bars, that's 1000 points. Cost of 1050 points in the store? $9.99

    I haven't used those, so I don't know if it unlocks all the bars, or just one at a time (which is what the description seems to indicate). If it only unlocks one at a time, then that is true, and I can show you several F2P MMOs where you get a lot more for $10.

  4. #604
    Quote Originally Posted by Berethos08 View Post
    Do F2P players not start with 2 action bars? According to the store's description of the item, unlocking one action bar is 250 coins. If it takes 4 of those to unlock all the action bars, that's 1000 points. Cost of 1050 points in the store? $9.99

    I haven't used those, so I don't know if it unlocks all the bars, or just one at a time (which is what the description seems to indicate). If it only unlocks one at a time, then that is true, and I can show you several F2P MMOs where you get a lot more for $10.
    its 7.29 for 4 bars, not 10.

    Also, you don't have to buy them with cartel coins. You can buy them from other players for credits.

    So that would be 0 dollars.
    Lv40 (Firefall) Dragonfly, Mammoth, Nighthawk, Arsenal, Tigerclaw
    Lv50 (FF14) Paladin, Warrior (Swtor) Agent, Warrior, Knight, Inquisitor, Trooper, Consular, Smuggler, Hunter
    Lv60 (NWO) Rogue, Fighter, Wizard, Guardian, Cleric (Rift) Rogue
    Lv80/85 (GW2) Thief (WoW) Rogue, Mage, Priest, Hunter, Warlock, Warrior, Death Knight, Paladin, Druid, Shaman

  5. #605
    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    its 7.29 for 4 bars, not 10.

    Also, you don't have to buy them with cartel coins. You can buy them from other players for credits.

    So that would be 0 dollars.
    How do you figure 7.29? I'm seeing 250 coins per bar to unlock, and since 250x4 is 1000 points, and the cheapest option I see at that point is $9.99 for 1050. Or are you basing that figure on how many coins you get relative to the price when you buy $39.99 at a time (dividing 5500 by 39.99 is around 137, and that multiplied by 7.29 is 1002)? Maybe we should look at the base price without any bulk point discounts, in which case it's closer to $11 for the 4. Or maybe we should remain reasonable and pick the closest total amount of points that can be purchased that allows for purchasing all 4 bars...which is $9.99.

    Also, for buying from players, that's assuming players are selling, and they want to pay the outrageous prices that will inevitably be charged (just checked, see one unlock on the GTN on my server - a title unlock for a cool 320,000 credits).

  6. #606
    Quote Originally Posted by Berethos08 View Post
    How do you figure 7.29? I'm seeing 250 coins per bar to unlock, and since 250x4 is 1000 points, and the cheapest option I see at that point is $9.99 for 1050. Or are you basing that figure on how many coins you get relative to the price when you buy $39.99 at a time (dividing 5500 by 39.99 is around 137, and that multiplied by 7.29 is 1002)? Maybe we should look at the base price without any bulk point discounts, in which case it's closer to $11 for the 4. Or maybe we should remain reasonable and pick the closest total amount of points that can be purchased that allows for purchasing all 4 bars...which is $9.99.

    Also, for buying from players, that's assuming players are selling, and they want to pay the outrageous prices that will inevitably be charged (just checked, see one unlock on the GTN on my server - a title unlock for a cool 320,000 credits).
    5500 coins for 39.99 is 137 coins per dollar.

    Also, players won't sell for more than 350k since ftpers can't carry more than that. So they need to price it at or below 350k. They just haven't figured that out.
    Lv40 (Firefall) Dragonfly, Mammoth, Nighthawk, Arsenal, Tigerclaw
    Lv50 (FF14) Paladin, Warrior (Swtor) Agent, Warrior, Knight, Inquisitor, Trooper, Consular, Smuggler, Hunter
    Lv60 (NWO) Rogue, Fighter, Wizard, Guardian, Cleric (Rift) Rogue
    Lv80/85 (GW2) Thief (WoW) Rogue, Mage, Priest, Hunter, Warlock, Warrior, Death Knight, Paladin, Druid, Shaman

  7. #607
    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    5500 coins for 39.99 is 137 coins per dollar.
    That's assuming you want to spend that much to maximize your CC:$ ratio. Most people don't. They want to purchase the minimum needed for what they want from the cash shop.

  8. #608
    Quote Originally Posted by Berethos08 View Post
    How do you figure 7.29? I'm seeing 250 coins per bar to unlock, and since 250x4 is 1000 points, and the cheapest option I see at that point is $9.99 for 1050. Or are you basing that figure on how many coins you get relative to the price when you buy $39.99 at a time (dividing 5500 by 39.99 is around 137, and that multiplied by 7.29 is 1002)? Maybe we should look at the base price without any bulk point discounts, in which case it's closer to $11 for the 4. Or maybe we should remain reasonable and pick the closest total amount of points that can be purchased that allows for purchasing all 4 bars...which is $9.99.

    Also, for buying from players, that's assuming players are selling, and they want to pay the outrageous prices that will inevitably be charged (just checked, see one unlock on the GTN on my server - a title unlock for a cool 320,000 credits).
    wouldn't you get that free if you subscribe, and if you aren't, you wouldn't be able to hold 320k credits in the first place?

  9. #609
    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusherO0 View Post
    That's assuming you want to spend that much to maximize your CC:$ ratio. Most people don't. They want to purchase the minimum needed for what they want from the cash shop.
    Buying bulk is the best way to go if you are going to spend real life cash.
    If people want to buy single purchases they are best off getting if from the GTN

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-20 at 06:59 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Shardik View Post
    wouldn't you get that free if you subscribe, and if you aren't, you wouldn't be able to hold 320k credits in the first place?
    Preferred have 350k cap.
    Lv40 (Firefall) Dragonfly, Mammoth, Nighthawk, Arsenal, Tigerclaw
    Lv50 (FF14) Paladin, Warrior (Swtor) Agent, Warrior, Knight, Inquisitor, Trooper, Consular, Smuggler, Hunter
    Lv60 (NWO) Rogue, Fighter, Wizard, Guardian, Cleric (Rift) Rogue
    Lv80/85 (GW2) Thief (WoW) Rogue, Mage, Priest, Hunter, Warlock, Warrior, Death Knight, Paladin, Druid, Shaman

  10. #610
    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    Buying bulk is the best way to go if you are going to spend real life cash.
    If people want to buy single purchases they are best off getting if from the GTN
    I'm well aware bulk is the most cost-effective way. But if I only want 10 bucks worth of stuff, why would I drop 50? That's not to mention the people who can't afford to buy in bigger quantities.

    As for single purchases, it's difficult to get hundreds of thousands of credits at low level to purchase another action bar, so it's not always reasonable. It's great that the option is there, but it's not always applicable.

  11. #611
    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    5500 coins for 39.99 is 137 coins per dollar.
    That's what I thought.

    Now, do you really think it's reasonable to judge all purchases from the store based on the coins per dollar ratio of a single purchase price (that happens to be the most expensive)? Or is that something done when you want the numbers to look a bit smaller and less "expensive" in game?


    Quote Originally Posted by Shardik View Post
    wouldn't you get that free if you subscribe, and if you aren't, you wouldn't be able to hold 320k credits in the first place?
    You can have to 350k as a F2P, but because they are items that can be purchased with real money and sold for in-game money, people will definitely try and use it as a form of RMT...outside of rare cartel pack items, I don't see that really being a successful market, though. I'd imagine few want to grind out the currency in-game to purchase things as simple as action bars (game-time, on the other hand, or the currency itself tend to do well...Tera, EVE, and GW2 have proven that) and will be more likely to spend the $5 or $10 to unlock a few things at a time, assuming they aren't turned off by the restrictions and simply head to less restrictive F2P games that are available once they've exhausted the story content that interests them. With f2players not likely buying for the higher prices, and the sellers not willing to drop $5 or $10 on items that don't sell for a couple hundred thousand credits at the least, I don't see there being a strong market for buying unlocks from other players.

    Which leads us back to buying them...and even at the $7.29 ratio, that's still pricey for a UI element. Lotro offers up quest content unlocks that provide a hundred or more quests for less than that, AND they unlock is for your entire account (and, though it's a bit of a grind, you can earn the points in-game to unlock those areas). Any way you slice it, the action bars are overpriced, and it typifies the mistakes EA is making with its F2P approach.

  12. #612
    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusherO0 View Post
    I'm well aware bulk is the most cost-effective way. But if I only want 10 bucks worth of stuff, why would I drop 50? That's not to mention the people who can't afford to buy in bigger quantities.

    As for single purchases, it's difficult to get hundreds of thousands of credits at low level to purchase another action bar, so it's not always reasonable. It's great that the option is there, but it's not always applicable.
    But you don't need extra action bars at low level as you don't have all that many abilities any way.

  13. #613
    Quote Originally Posted by Jalek View Post
    But you don't need extra action bars at low level as you don't have all that many abilities any way.
    My sage is level 13 and I've filled up one bar completely and am working on my second bar. I'd love to toss buffs/infrequently used abilities on a side bar, but can't. I don't like them sitting in the middle of my screen, clogging it up, and I don't like having to pull open a skillbook every time I want to cast self buffs.

  14. #614
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusherO0 View Post
    My sage is level 13 and I've filled up one bar completely and am working on my second bar. I'd love to toss buffs/infrequently used abilities on a side bar, but can't. I don't like them sitting in the middle of my screen, clogging it up, and I don't like having to pull open a skillbook every time I want to cast self buffs.
    Yep, huge QoL.

    I use an extra bar to hide spells that I have keybound. As a BH I have my 3 aoes, mount, buff, all heals, and throw huttball keybound and not visible.

  15. #615
    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusherO0 View Post
    I'm well aware bulk is the most cost-effective way. But if I only want 10 bucks worth of stuff, why would I drop 50? That's not to mention the people who can't afford to buy in bigger quantities.

    As for single purchases, it's difficult to get hundreds of thousands of credits at low level to purchase another action bar, so it's not always reasonable. It's great that the option is there, but it's not always applicable.
    This isnt exclusive to SWTOR, it works quite well at Costco and other similar stores. As to buying items in game with credits, that is one of the better moves I have seen in the F2P games I have tried. It basically adds the ability to earn unlocks in game which puts SWTOR's model much closer to games like LOTRO where you can earn TPs in game. With SWTOR you just grind credits.

  16. #616
    Bloodsail Admiral Perkunas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drakos View Post
    This isnt exclusive to SWTOR, it works quite well at Costco and other similar stores. As to buying items in game with credits, that is one of the better moves I have seen in the F2P games I have tried. It basically adds the ability to earn unlocks in game which puts SWTOR's model much closer to games like LOTRO where you can earn TPs in game. With SWTOR you just grind credits.
    Ermahgerd, Drakos...
    Don't blame the casuals for making Warcraft worse. It's the unskilled masses who refuse to improve themselves and Blizzard who has decided to bribe these folks with an endless shower of purples that should draw the ire of both casual and hardcore alike. It was never about "seeing the content" for these people it's always been about the gear and their sense of entitlement.

  17. #617
    Quote Originally Posted by Perkunas View Post
    Ermahgerd, Drakos...
    Sorry I quit WoW in 2007, out of touch with the lingo, english?

  18. #618
    Bloodsail Admiral Perkunas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drakos View Post
    Sorry I quit WoW in 2007, out of touch with the lingo, english?
    It's just a meme. Nothing to do with WoW. This is the same Drakos from the TOR boards I take it? Glad to see you're still lurking about as well.
    Don't blame the casuals for making Warcraft worse. It's the unskilled masses who refuse to improve themselves and Blizzard who has decided to bribe these folks with an endless shower of purples that should draw the ire of both casual and hardcore alike. It was never about "seeing the content" for these people it's always been about the gear and their sense of entitlement.

  19. #619
    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusherO0 View Post
    My sage is level 13 and I've filled up one bar completely and am working on my second bar. I'd love to toss buffs/infrequently used abilities on a side bar, but can't. I don't like them sitting in the middle of my screen, clogging it up, and I don't like having to pull open a skillbook every time I want to cast self buffs.


    This just serves as sample...

    I always try to focus only on 2 actionbars to keep the field of view as small as possible. These are lvl 50 (or almost) chars which are viable in pvp/ pve, content some F2P player won't ever go for. You can level each char with this setup without any problem from lvl 1 to 50. The main problem I think is not that it's not sufficient (remember SWTOR before UI customization?... right), it's rather that recuring players are used to have more than 2 and new player go read the forum and follow the flow... 2 actionbars is not enough. You don't need to have all spells in your actionbar.. some I barely use because as a range dd I'm not using close range ae's which place I could easily swap for stims etc. .

    I always found that 4 actionbars is more than enough, maybe too much because you start filling it with any crap you can pull over (jawa, faction flag etc.) which you really just put there because you have too much space. If player would unlock at least 1 actionbar more... there should be 0 problems.

  20. #620
    Playing Operative, level 14.

    That second bar is getting quite some use alreadyl... and have 46 levels worth of abilities to learn yet...

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