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  1. #861
    Quote Originally Posted by Torais View Post
    Not sure I fully understand the CB change. Is it purely a GoSac or is the 25% damage as a DoT thing baseline?
    It's just with GoSac.

    Without GoSac, Chaos Bolt behaves just as it has in 5.0. With GoSac, it applies a 3 second DoT equal to 25% of the damage dealt by CB instead of adding 25% damage directly to CB..
    Last edited by Fallensaint; 2012-10-28 at 08:52 AM.

  2. #862
    Hmm. Well that isn't quite as bad as I expected. Thanks for the info.

    The continual chipping away at Cataclysm before it even makes it to live is getting worrying though.

  3. #863
    Quote Originally Posted by Torais View Post
    The continual chipping away at Cataclysm before it even makes it to live is getting worrying though.
    Meh, the worst part about Cataclysm has been present since the beginning; You can't move, take other actions nor cancel it after starting to cast it. This makes it completely and utterly pointless in virtually any remotely common situation.

    I really have no idea who designed this spell, but it might as well just end up as a cosmetic spell to use on screenshots and while idling in your main city. Mainly because it's best part is the animation.

  4. #864
    The chaosbolt nerf is retarded, meanwhile i took a 162k frostbomb on my lock instant ofc because fireblast glyph, but hey it´s balanced,you know

  5. #865
    162k only? Took a 181k frost bomb yesterday.

    Mind you, got crit by a lock for 228k with chaos bolt also, but the ramp up time between chaos bolt and frost bomb isnt even comparable.

    Kinda sucks really, the 1 thing destro had going for it in PvP was the burst, and now they're nerfing that whilst keeping it the same damage wise for PvE

  6. #866
    It's funny to see the GoSac CB change. It seems very similar to what I said last week:
    Alternative: Just shift some of Chaos Bolt's damage off into a small, short duration dot, kind of like the Conflagrate treatment in WotLK. Or is that too similar to Pyro for your taste?
    Healer's get 2 extra GCDs to make up that 25% extra damage. Doesn't bother me, really. It seems like a fairly neutral change. My problem is that other classes don't seem to playing by the same set of rules. When a mage can hit nearly as hard far more frequently and not sacrifice their defenses, it doesn't seem right.

    Anyone done the math yet to see if FF could be buffed without passing Incinerate in PvE? Seems like there's some room to grow there and it would be nice to get a buff with almost no drawbacks/side-effects. The worst one I see is that instant-cast damage is already too prevalent. If they get other classes' instants toned down to the appropriate level, then that's fine. If not, FF looks like it could easily be buffed without affecting PvE balance/rotation. Plus, unlike Ice Lance and Boomkin dot spam, FF is prohibitively limited by the mana cost.
    Last edited by Dalmasca1; 2012-10-28 at 07:50 PM.

  7. #867
    Not as bad as I was expecting, knowing blizzard and their attempts at whatever they think "balance" means, but now that Xelnath is no longer with us to communicate, we'll have to wait a whole year (or more) for blizzard to realise they were wrong (AGAIN!) and we'll have to make do, keep shut and keep paying, or stop playing.

    At the end of the day, we as players have no impact at all to blizzard's decisions regardless how stupid they may be.
    Magnificence personified

  8. #868
    Quote Originally Posted by qu1rex View Post
    Not as bad as I was expecting, knowing blizzard and their attempts at whatever they think "balance" means, but now that Xelnath is no longer with us to communicate, we'll have to wait a whole year (or more) for blizzard to realise they were wrong (AGAIN!) and we'll have to make do, keep shut and keep paying, or stop playing.

    At the end of the day, we as players have no impact at all to blizzard's decisions regardless how stupid they may be.
    WHAAAAAAAAAAAAATTTTTTTTTT????????!!!!

    What happened to Xel? Did he leave us or.. (can't say it ... blizzard couldn't be this shitty to turn down one of the best developers i ever known. EVER.)

  9. #869
    Quote Originally Posted by evertonbelmontt View Post
    WHAAAAAAAAAAAAATTTTTTTTTT????????!!!!

    What happened to Xel? Did he leave us or.. (can't say it ... blizzard couldn't be this shitty to turn down one of the best developers i ever known. EVER.)
    Look down a few threads at the "Apology to the Community" and various others. It seems he was fired for some things he said both here and internally.

  10. #870
    this change was decided with Xelnath leading the team according to his post.. one of the last things he was there.

    sh*t is probably going to get alot worse.

    we should mass email blizzard and lobby for Xel to be returned to the throne, even if he did some stuff we didnt like; at least he was talking to us and making an attempt. *.*

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahada View Post
    The devs aren't stupid.

  11. #871
    Quote Originally Posted by Lulbalance View Post
    this change was decided with Xelnath leading the team according to his post.. one of the last things he was there.

    sh*t is probably going to get alot worse.

    we should mass email blizzard and lobby for Xel to be returned to the throne, even if he did some stuff we didnt like; at least he was talking to us and making an attempt. *.*
    Thanks for clearing this up for me, both of you.
    Well, about xel, this was his JOB, and i'm pretty sure he did it well! His job was to design the warlock, the game for us (at least for me, wow = warlock, no other chars), and i'm not talking about MMO only, pretty sure he wasn't too, as he stated many times.

    As for the record, we can see he did a good job on comunicating with the comunity without being affected by it, 5.1 patch gave us only buffs, full prof of that. So, nothing wrong with the chating, i guess ...

    i'm all go for the mass email blizzard thing, i mean it, it would be a tribute.

  12. #872
    Hey, destro was fun again. You knew they were going to take a massive shit on it.

    Good thing I already leveled my lock and enjoyed zero-downtime leveling with destro and GoSC. spamming SBurn on low-health targets in an AOE pack and living forever FTW. :P

  13. #873
    Mechagnome Kildragon's Avatar
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    I'm just pissed that people knew CB would cause problems ever since Beta. I remember having discussions with some of the people still posting here about how Destro would feel far too backloaded (CB hitting too hard, the rest not hard enough), too Incinerate spammy and how the huge CB's would cause issues in PvP. Nothing was done, and now there is massive forum QQ and we need to deal with the consequences.

    As for the CB problem itself, the #1 problem with CB is not how hard it can hit, but that it always crits. It is the hardest hitting spell in the game, so it can feel too strong to other players, which is multiplied by the fact that it always crits.

    The other problem is that when it does hit, it can end games very fast, which people perceive as being too powerful for a single spell. Mages can cause even more damage with Frost Bomb, Frost Orb, Brain Freeze and FoF procs, and Shatters but it comes from different damage sources so it doesn't seem as OP to people.

    Also, Chaos Bolt seems like this big apocalyptic thing when people see it, as if this one spell can end the world. It's very flashy because of the long cast and the possible damage output from it. This again increases the perceived OPness of this spell by other players. FoF and Brain Freeze procs are instant and not as flashy, so people tend to not notice them as much. There is no sense of holy shit when you see an Ice Lance coming your way. BM Hunters are facing a very similar problem right now, where people are saying that Stampede is the problem, when it was really Lynx Rush and then Rabid making pets hit for a crap load. Stampede is the flashiest part of BM Hunters so people love blaming it without realizing the real problem. CB is the flashiest part of Destro so people love blaming it.

    As I just mentioned as well, instants and procs are a huge part of PvP. Hunters feel so OP right now because they don't cast at all for their burst to happen. Lynx Rush, Stampede, Glaive Toss and Arcane Shot are all instant. Mages have to cast Frost Bomb, but FoF and Brainfreeze make Ice Lance and Frostfire Bolt instant and Frost Orb is instant as well. Fire Mages get Pyroblast, Combustion and Inferno Blast as instants. SPriests get Devouring Plague and Mind Spikes as instants if they have the talent, plus Mind Blast is only a 1.5 second cast. Even Boomkins get Starsurge and Starfall as instants. If you're following the pattern, the classes with the most instant burst abilities are also the classes that tend to do the best in PvP.

    Here's another thing about CB. I actually agree with the people blaming it and I wish Blizz would change it. Seeing those huge numbers is fun, but it also causes the spec to feel very lopsided in both PvP and PvE and it makes us one trick ponies in PvP. Stop our CB and we won't kill you. Let it go off and you're dead. People have been calling for a buff to Incinerate and Immolate for a long time now, and I still believe that we need them. CB has now been made less bursty, which is fine, but Destro sustained damage is already behind, so a little buff to it wouldn't hurt at all.

    I would also love for Shadowburn to not work with Havoc, justifying a much bigger buff to Incinerate. Destro can only compete right now when we can get KBs on adds with Shadowburn. It's very gimmicky and only hurts the spec in the long run.

  14. #874
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Burst – Aside from Hunters, and possibly Warriors and Mages, we don’t think burst is out of control. Other specs that get mentioned by players are Destruction Warlocks, Frost Death Knights, and Shadow Priests. Those are definitely on our radar, but we don’t have any changes to announce at the moment.
    Well, they made a change already. Does this mean the change wasn't supposed to go through yet? Or they're repealing it? Or does GC actually not know what exactly is going on?

    Confused.

  15. #875
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Burst – Aside from Hunters, and possibly Warriors and Mages, we don’t think burst is out of control. Other specs that get mentioned by players are Destruction Warlocks, Frost Death Knights, and Shadow Priests. Those are definitely on our radar, but we don’t have any changes to announce at the moment.
    Well, they made a change already. Does this mean the change wasn't supposed to go through yet? Or they're repealing it? Or does GC actually not know what exactly is going on?

    Confused.
    Probably all three of those.

  16. #876
    Titan Nerraw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizelda View Post
    Probably all three of those.
    Considering the hints we've been given recently about the inner workings of the classes teams, this wouldn't surprise me in the least.
    Quote Originally Posted by Erin View Post
    I only saw a few minutes of it but it looked slicker than a lubed up olympic swimmer fleeing from a shark.

  17. #877
    Fluffy Kitten Zinnin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Or does GC actually not know what exactly is going on?
    Confused.
    I'm voting this one. The whole post made me cringe. I don't pvp at a high level, 1700 right now, but at that bracket Rdruids feel far harder to deal with then rsham \ hpally and that isn't even mentioned.

    And if their answer to hunter burst is seriously make surv \ mm more mobile and hope people play those specs instead of a burst spec....then all hope is lost.

    And saying rogues need more mobility and more control when our own cc can feel entirely useless just made me facepalm.

  18. #878
    if they nerf cb damage to make it like pyro blast just remove the embercost f casting that thing now thanks blizz

  19. #879
    I really don't know what to say. I mean, I expected Blizzard to talk about BM hunters and Warriors, but the rest caught me by surprise. I'm really hoping right now that Xelnath was taken back into the team at the cost of no more discussions here (since he hasn't said a single word outside of his thread).
    I was actually hoping for them to justify the numbers output by warlocks, and maybe propose a change since it's just so unstable at the moment. I was also expecting them tto talk about Shadowpriests and Resto druids, but oh well...
    Although we should pat ourselves on the back: everything we've argued against in the mage toolkit has been acknowledged. Pyroblast chaining and extreme amounts of CC come to mind when reading that post.
    Melee vs caster balance in WoD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9F0Ehgx_Q8

  20. #880
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Burst – Aside from Hunters, and possibly Warriors and Mages, we don’t think burst is out of control. Other specs that get mentioned by players are Destruction Warlocks, Frost Death Knights, and Shadow Priests. Those are definitely on our radar, but we don’t have any changes to announce at the moment.
    Well, they made a change already. Does this mean the change wasn't supposed to go through yet? Or they're repealing it? Or does GC actually not know what exactly is going on?

    Confused.
    They said no changes to announce. Just means that internally they're still iterating on it, or at least still mulling over it.
    --
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
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