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  1. #961
    Quote Originally Posted by gez View Post
    next expa? kidding? no one raid as destro, look at WoL theres like 4-5 destro locks in the whole world? kidding me right? its need a single target buff, aoe/cleave is fine but single target is horrible how does aff is better?
    geez, your a lock, 3 out of 3 speccs in top 3 for pve dps and you complain ? wanna trade with oomkins ?

    can't understand why people like you complain for shit like this, there will never be perfect dps matching, warlocks dps is very close and on top, you can raid as whatever you want.

    aslong as people min max in wow there will always be a specc on top for each dps class.

  2. #962
    Quote Originally Posted by DG01 View Post
    As a side note, if something needed a boost to make up for the loss of the melee attack, it was certainly caster-form spells, and not the most hard-hitting dot we have.
    Logic fail. You're moaning about the lack of caster form damage, when this in fact is a buff to your damage while in caster form because Doom should be up all the time regardless of your stance.

  3. #963
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Logic fail. You're moaning about the lack of caster form damage, when this in fact is a buff to your damage while in caster form because Doom should be up all the time regardless of your stance.
    I think he's talking about PvP, where putting up Doom often ends up being a bad choice because of the difficulty required to build up Demonic Fury for burst, which is valued over the pressure created by Doom.
    Melee vs caster balance in WoD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9F0Ehgx_Q8

  4. #964
    Quote Originally Posted by lolo855 View Post
    geez, your a lock, 3 out of 3 speccs in top 3 for pve dps and you complain ? wanna trade with oomkins ?

    can't understand why people like you complain for shit like this, there will never be perfect dps matching, warlocks dps is very close and on top, you can raid as whatever you want.

    aslong as people min max in wow there will always be a specc on top for each dps class.
    You must do nothing but PVE. PVP damage is crap except for Chaos Bolt that most people here even admit is high. When your class representation in top arena teams is only 3% it verifys that Locks are crap in PVP. People here age just saying we need some PVP love too cuz we suck!

  5. #965
    I am Murloc! rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Logic fail. You're moaning about the lack of caster form damage, when this in fact is a buff to your damage while in caster form because Doom should be up all the time regardless of your stance.
    You are always so quick to insult others. Did you stop to think for a moment that they would like a damage boost to caster form that doesn't require a non-caster form spell? That they would have liked it from spells they cast while in caster form? By your logic a Tank is a dps boost for a warlock because they keep the boss from attacking the warlock.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  6. #966
    The last two posts couldn't have said it any better.

  7. #967
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    You are always so quick to insult others. Did you stop to think for a moment that they would like a damage boost to caster form that doesn't require a non-caster form spell? That they would have liked it from spells they cast while in caster form? By your logic a Tank is a dps boost for a warlock because they keep the boss from attacking the warlock.
    It takes 2 globals to put it up. If you start buffing Caster form, you end up nerfing Meta. Keep chipping away at it, and we're back to the QQ akin to Wrath Destruction where damage is too flat; that our cooldowns are insignificant and that we lack burst altogether.

  8. #968
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Doom is 100% uptime, meta melee is about 30%.
    Thing is, melee is 4k damage OVERALL and Doom is 10k, So Bis we end up losing 1.5k dps in Bis gear when we already had a 9k dps gap. And we DO lose some pvp viability. Only thing we get is slightly better multi-dotting... And you're all shooting fireworks and making parties over this nerf?

  9. #969
    Quote Originally Posted by ykza View Post
    Thing is, melee is 4k damage OVERALL and Doom is 10k, So Bis we end up losing 1.5k dps in Bis gear when we already had a 9k dps gap. And we DO lose some pvp viability. Only thing we get is slightly better multi-dotting... And you're all shooting fireworks and making parties over this nerf?
    I'm not, but it seems this as good a change as any to put the damage somewhere. We gain some, we lose some. Overall I'm sure we'll be balanced enough to still compete.
    Your Soul Shall Suffer! ||| Forum rules ||| New England Patriots

  10. #970
    Quote Originally Posted by ykza View Post
    Thing is, melee is 4k damage OVERALL and Doom is 10k, So Bis we end up losing 1.5k dps in Bis gear when we already had a 9k dps gap. And we DO lose some pvp viability. Only thing we get is slightly better multi-dotting... And you're all shooting fireworks and making parties over this nerf?
    I'm not going to cry over 1.5k DPS single target output, or over the basically imperceptable change (which I've noted has pros as well as cons) viability of a barely viable PvP spec. It's no fireworks, but the sky certainly isn't falling in either.

  11. #971
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    I'm not going to cry over 1.5k DPS single target output, or over the basically imperceptable change (which I've noted has pros as well as cons) viability of a barely viable PvP spec. It's no fireworks, but the sky certainly isn't falling in either.
    Exactly, a nerf on a barely viable PvP spec. And noone's crying over a 1.5k dps loss (even more at BiS, where the dps is 120k, it shouldn't even be noticeable in normal gear). I just think it isn't fair they took this much time to fix this huge bug and end up nerfing us on top, when if anything we deserved a buff.

  12. #972
    1.5k dps WHILE YOU ARE BURSTING is substantial in PvP.

  13. #973
    I am Murloc! rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    It takes 2 globals to put it up. If you start buffing Caster form, you end up nerfing Meta. Keep chipping away at it, and we're back to the QQ akin to Wrath Destruction where damage is too flat; that our cooldowns are insignificant and that we lack burst altogether.

    That is Illogical. You can't buff caster form because then you need to nerf Meta, but it is okay to buff meta without nerfing caster form? Blizzard is giving us something because they are taking away something. Giving that something to caster form (doesn't mean we would have got the same % increase) doesn't make our damage flat or our cool downs insignificant.

    We were getting something anyways, not asking for something extra. Doom doesn't create burst because it is a dot that spreads its damage over a 1 min period. It creates pressure when combined with other abilities. Adding it to doom or caster form could give an equivalent amount of pressure.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  14. #974
    Quote Originally Posted by Tya View Post
    1.5k dps WHILE YOU ARE BURSTING is substantial in PvP.
    That's 1.5k dps in RAID gear...in PvP gear it's more likely to be about 800 dps. 800 dps over a period of say 6 seconds (bursting) only ends up being a total loss of about 3,600 damage, which is about 1% of a players health.

    I'd hardly call that "substantial".

    I will burn your soul.

  15. #975
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    That is Illogical. You can't buff caster form because then you need to nerf Meta, but it is okay to buff meta without nerfing caster form? Blizzard is giving us something because they are taking away something. Giving that something to caster form (doesn't mean we would have got the same % increase) doesn't make our damage flat or our cool downs insignificant.

    We were getting something anyways, not asking for something extra. Doom doesn't create burst because it is a dot that spreads its damage over a 1 min period. It creates pressure when combined with other abilities. Adding it to doom or caster form could give an equivalent amount of pressure.
    That's exactly what I said, that Doom spreads the damage in a very minor way, I don't have any problem with that. The implication in your original post was that you would have prefered a [probably considerable] buff to Shadow Bolt as that is our only uniquely caster form damage source, since Corruption is 100% up time, and Hand of Gul'dan and Chaos Wave's damage are tied together.

  16. #976
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supernex View Post
    That's 1.5k dps in RAID gear...in PvP gear it's more likely to be about 800 dps. 800 dps over a period of say 6 seconds (bursting) only ends up being a total loss of about 3,600 damage, which is about 1% of a players health.

    I'd hardly call that "substantial".
    It depends on where that 1% falls. If it's the difference between 39% to 40%, I would agree. However, if it's the difference between 21% and 20%, it becomes very substantial.

  17. #977
    I am Murloc! rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    That's exactly what I said, that Doom spreads the damage in a very minor way, I don't have any problem with that. The implication in your original post was that you would have prefered a [probably considerable] buff to Shadow Bolt as that is our only uniquely caster form damage source, since Corruption is 100% up time, and Hand of Gul'dan and Chaos Wave's damage are tied together.
    I did not make an original post about the subject. Hand of Gul'dan and Chaos wave damage isn't tied together. Hand of Gul'dan does damage through a dot called shadow flame where as Chaos wave does direct damage. If you can buff demon form without nerfing caster form then you can buff caster form without having to nerf demon form and make the class into WOTLK warlocks.

    There are ways of buffing one without the other. Even soul fire is different between the forms because one draws on mana, and one draws on fury. They could change fury generation slightly. If you can give doom additional damage then you could have given it to a caster form ability just as easily.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  18. #978
    Quote Originally Posted by Zharradan View Post
    this is actually bad for pvp demon, since doom ticks every 15sec and dispels are on 8 sec cd... so the chances you don't see your doom tick ever, is really big IMO
    Only true in 1v1s really... 8 sec CD means you will have at least 1 Doom up and ticking in 2v2, more in 3s and over. Might not be on your focus target of the moment, but (A) hard switches says hi and (B) its still pressure. Overall, we lost a TINY bit of single target DPS, gained on multidotting.

    Also you guys have to keep in mind that a healer that is fighting against focused heavy pressure (burst) is not gonna have a GCD to spare to dispel himself.

    I guess what I am trying to say is that if you spread your Doom, its not all that easy to dispel with this new system. It takes 16 sec to dispel 2 targets. 24 for 3. etc.
    Last edited by Nikijih; 2012-11-05 at 10:48 PM.

  19. #979
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    I'm not going to cry over 1.5k DPS single target output, or over the basically imperceptable change (which I've noted has pros as well as cons) viability of a barely viable PvP spec. It's no fireworks, but the sky certainly isn't falling in either.
    Hello there, i've just registered for the sole purpose of replying to this post.=)
    I'd like to state that currently demo is actually the most suited spec for arenas(it's also good for BGs)
    since you mostly use instants and have a lot more defense against melees and mobility.
    The spec is played by slowly getting fury and then going all out in a banana split burst,
    which is the same for all specs. Destro is good for BGs cause of the ROF making it impossible to check
    points unless the lock is dead or CCed for a good chunk of about 10-15 seconds, and also destro has
    the best aoe with ROF, MF and fire and brimstone.
    Last edited by Frostforge; 2012-11-06 at 11:45 AM.

  20. #980
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    I did not make an original post about the subject. Hand of Gul'dan and Chaos wave damage isn't tied together. Hand of Gul'dan does damage through a dot called shadow flame where as Chaos wave does direct damage. If you can buff demon form without nerfing caster form then you can buff caster form without having to nerf demon form and make the class into WOTLK warlocks.

    There are ways of buffing one without the other. Even soul fire is different between the forms because one draws on mana, and one draws on fury. They could change fury generation slightly. If you can give doom additional damage then you could have given it to a caster form ability just as easily.
    Chaos Wave does the same equivalent damage as HoG+Shadowflame, if you start messing with that, DPET takes over from cost as the important factor. The only caster ability that could have been buffed is SB, but the factor will have miniscule.

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