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  1. #981
    I think they should make immolate instant with a glyph that makes it to where if its dispelled it explodes for its full damage as a nuke or if its dispelled it grants a burning ember make them pay for dispelling it.

  2. #982
    I am Murloc! rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Chaos Wave does the same equivalent damage as HoG+Shadowflame, if you start messing with that, DPET takes over from cost as the important factor. The only caster ability that could have been buffed is SB, but the factor will have miniscule.
    They are still separate abilities and each one can be changed without effecting the other one. You don't have to buff Chaos wave just because you buff HoG because they aren't the same spell. Any caster ability could have been buffed.

    DPET is already the important factor for why you don't use Chaos wave. Because the DPET doesn't out weight the cost of the spell and the fury is better spent elsewhere. But that has nothing to do with this because separate spells can function differently.

    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=124917 "1602 (+ 175% of SpellPower) Chaos damage"

    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=105174" 534 (+ 50% of SpellPower)" and " deals 876 (+ 13.7% of SpellPower) over 6 sec.

    Different formula's and different damage types. Why do you have to change both at the same time instead of just one again?
    Last edited by rhorle; 2012-11-07 at 01:46 AM.
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  3. #983
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    They are still separate abilities and each one can be changed without effecting the other one. You don't have to buff Chaos wave just because you buff HoG because they aren't the same spell. Any caster ability could have been buffed.

    DPET is already the important factor for why you don't use Chaos wave. Because the DPET doesn't out weight the cost of the spell and the fury is better spent elsewhere. But that has nothing to do with this because separate spells can function differently.

    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=124917 "1602 (+ 175% of SpellPower) Chaos damage"

    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=105174" 534 (+ 50% of SpellPower)" and " deals 876 (+ 13.7% of SpellPower) over 6 sec.

    Different formula's and different damage types. Why do you have to change both at the same time instead of just one again?
    Because, as happened on Beta, the moment one offered more damage, it became another part of the stance dancing routine.

  4. #984
    Quote Originally Posted by Kildragon View Post
    As for the CB problem itself, the #1 problem with CB is not how hard it can hit, but that it always crits. It is the hardest hitting spell in the game, so it can feel too strong to other players, which is multiplied by the fact that it always crits.
    FYI, if you're dueling a warrior, just think that even though your HP is at 100% at the start, its actually at 80%.
    execute crits for almost double the damage of Chaos Bolt. even Shadowburn crits hit for more than Chaos Bolt and is freaking instant cast AND spammable (as long as you have the embers). problem is the comminity is noob and doesnt know enough of a lot of things.

    *big green swirling thingy flies at you and does big numbers* -"WHAAAT WAS THAT? NERF THIS SHITTZ!!"

    *warrior sits at your healer all day long with silences, stuns and never dies because of Second Wind* -"OOHH MAN THIS GUY NEVER DIES, BUT HE'S ALREADY AT 35%, THIS TIME I GOT IT!!" *loses match* -"MAAAN SOOOO CLOOOOSE, I ALMOST HAD HIM 3 TIMES, ONLY 10% HP LEFT!!!"

    "If something doesn't make sense, its you who don't get it."
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  5. #985
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    I would love a new minor glyph "Glyph of Slow Chaos" (PH) : Your Chaos Bolts are no longer affected by Backdraft.
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  6. #986
    Quote Originally Posted by Zumzumzum View Post
    I would love a new minor glyph "Glyph of Slow Chaos" (PH) : Your Chaos Bolts are no longer affected by Backdraft.
    That's not a bad idea, although I have to say that sometimes having the option to squeeze in an extra Chaos Bolt while you have procs up is quite valuable. 15 second procs are annoyingly short when you're casting chaos bolts.

    I still want a glyph that makes Rain of Fire target your current target rather than use a reticle. Sort of the opposite of the Hand of Guldan glyph.

    Oh, and a small co-efficient bump for Incinerate would be nice. Nothing dramatic. Perhaps 2-3%. It doesn't change the rotation, it doesn't break PvP, it doesn't make the spec significantly more powerful in the scenarios where it already performs well, but it does improve single-target performance.

  7. #987
    Quote Originally Posted by Zumzumzum View Post
    I would love a new minor glyph "Glyph of Slow Chaos" (PH) : Your Chaos Bolts are no longer affected by Backdraft.
    I'd make it the other way around. Baseline ChBolt not affected by Backdraft, but with the glyph, it would be affected. This way it would punish PvP environment for using backdrafted ChBolts by taking up a glyph slot.

  8. #988
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    I'd make it the other way around. Baseline ChBolt not affected by Backdraft, but with the glyph, it would be affected. This way it would punish PvP environment for using backdrafted ChBolts by taking up a glyph slot.
    Even better :P
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  9. #989
    Quote Originally Posted by Zumzumzum View Post
    Even better :P
    Either way round, I support it.

  10. #990
    Bloodsail Admiral LeyrHao's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lowdiskspace View Post
    I think they should make immolate instant with a glyph that makes it to where if its dispelled it explodes for its full damage as a nuke or if its dispelled it grants a burning ember make them pay for dispelling it.
    I really like this idea. But I think it should be baseline instead of glyphed, Destro is already limited on glyph choices and can't really sacrify other glyphs.
    I'd like to see the following baseline: when an enemy aflicted by immolate dies it will explode dealing damage to surrounded enemies equal to the amount of immolate remaining or maybe a set amount related to spell power. Immolate isn't very powerful, so it won't affect anything and would make aoe'ing a bit nicer.

  11. #991
    Quote Originally Posted by darlissa View Post
    I'd make it the other way around. Baseline ChBolt not affected by Backdraft, but with the glyph, it would be affected. This way it would punish PvP environment for using backdrafted ChBolts by taking up a glyph slot.
    Isn't it punishment enough that a Destro warlock already has to lose out on 3 backdraft charges to cast a still relatively slow Chaos Bolt? There are already 2 mandatory glyphs for Destruction, I don't see any reason why to prevent any kind of choice.
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    You may be on to something here... GC claimed Ret Paladins killed his parents. Could it be that Warlocks drained Celas' dog soul?

  12. #992
    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenexis View Post
    Isn't it punishment enough that a Destro warlock already has to lose out on 3 backdraft charges to cast a still relatively slow Chaos Bolt? There are already 2 mandatory glyphs for Destruction, I don't see any reason why to prevent any kind of choice.
    Because it does too much dmg for it's backdrafted cast time. The whole idea of Chaos Bolt was to do great damage but be easily counter-able.

    Having backdraft affect Chaos Bolt ruins this whole idea which will lead to Chaos Bolt damage nerf(s), which in turn will make the whole spec go to hell, both in PvE and in PvP. Paying a glyph slot for it isn't the end of the world either.

    As for mandatory glyphs, I don't think being able to stack 4 embers is so mandatory in PvP, nor does the demonic circle glyph make a huge difference for it to be mandatory. These are all nice glyphs but I think I can live without any one of them in PvP. The only one I'd never get rid of is the Healthstone one, and this might even be personal prefference.
    Last edited by darlissa; 2012-11-22 at 02:39 PM.

  13. #993
    Quote Originally Posted by darlissa View Post
    Because it does too much dmg for it's backdrafted cast time. The whole idea of Chaos Bolt was to do great damage but be easily counter-able.

    Having backdraft affect Chaos Bolt ruins this whole idea which will lead to Chaos Bolt damage nerf(s), which in turn will make the whole spec go to hell, both in PvE and in PvP. Paying a glyph slot for it isn't the end of the world either.

    As for mandatory glyphs, I don't think being able to stack 4 embers is so mandatory in PvP, nor does the demonic circle glyph make a huge difference for it to be mandatory. These are all nice glyphs but I think I can live without any one of them in PvP. The only one I'd never get rid of is the Healthstone one, and this might even be personal prefference.
    I'm sorry but no. A 2.1 sec cast time is already big enough for anybody with half a brain to counter it. If people are getting off 3 sec cast Chaos Bolts, then opponents are extremely bad. No spec whatsoever has its biggest nuke on such a long cast time, and most of them are performing much better. Chaos Bolt is not overpowered, if anything it's relatively underpowered. The fact that it has so much damage tied into it makes it unbalanced (note that I said unbalanced, not overpowered).

    As for mandatory glyphs, I was talking about glyph of Conflagrate and glyph of Burning Embers.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-22 at 03:34 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by darlissa View Post
    Because it does too much dmg for it's backdrafted cast time. The whole idea of Chaos Bolt was to do great damage but be easily counter-able.

    Having backdraft affect Chaos Bolt ruins this whole idea which will lead to Chaos Bolt damage nerf(s), which in turn will make the whole spec go to hell, both in PvE and in PvP. Paying a glyph slot for it isn't the end of the world either.

    As for mandatory glyphs, I don't think being able to stack 4 embers is so mandatory in PvP, nor does the demonic circle glyph make a huge difference for it to be mandatory. These are all nice glyphs but I think I can live without any one of them in PvP. The only one I'd never get rid of is the Healthstone one, and this might even be personal prefference.
    I'm sorry but no. A 2.1 sec cast time is already big enough for anybody with half a brain to counter it. If people are getting off 3 sec cast Chaos Bolts, then opponents are extremely bad. No spec whatsoever has its biggest nuke on such a long cast time, and most of them are performing much better. Chaos Bolt is not overpowered, if anything it's relatively underpowered. The fact that it has so much damage tied into it makes it unbalanced (note that I said unbalanced, not overpowered).

    As for mandatory glyphs, I was talking about glyph of Conflagrate and glyph of Burning Embers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nivrax View Post
    You may be on to something here... GC claimed Ret Paladins killed his parents. Could it be that Warlocks drained Celas' dog soul?

  14. #994
    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenexis View Post
    I'm sorry but no. A 2.1 sec cast time is already big enough for anybody with half a brain to counter it. If people are getting off 3 sec cast Chaos Bolts, then opponents are extremely bad. No spec whatsoever has its biggest nuke on such a long cast time, and most of them are performing much better. Chaos Bolt is not overpowered, if anything it's relatively underpowered. The fact that it has so much damage tied into it makes it unbalanced (note that I said unbalanced, not overpowered).

    As for mandatory glyphs, I was talking about glyph of Conflagrate and glyph of Burning Embers.[COLOR="red"]
    Agreed. Besides, it's not like anyone even plays Destro at high levels anyway, because of how easy it is to shut down its burst...heck, I saw more Afflocks in the tourney than Destro. =/

    Destro needs a buff more so than a nerf, IMO.

  15. #995
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    Destro needs a buff more so than a nerf, IMO.
    Yeah I was never proposing a nerf, the initial idea was "a bit" derailed
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  16. #996
    Chaos Bolt nerf still undocumented? Is it too much to ask for to have it put in the patch notes?

  17. #997
    Quote Originally Posted by Coffeh View Post
    Chaos Bolt nerf still undocumented? Is it too much to ask for to have it put in the patch notes?
    I expect things are still a bit up in the air. They took the stun proc off Destro's Rain of Fire to make room for Cataclysm, but then they scrapped Cataclysm as unworkable. Only no new replacement has shown up and the patch notes still show the stun proc being gone. Hopefully they'll either finish adding something new or revert the change, because that stun is pretty much my number one defensive tool in PvP at the moment, sad to say.

    Sorry, sidetracked. I think the point is that Patch Notes are mostly stuff they're more confident about, and the GoSac CB change may not be final yet.

  18. #998
    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenexis View Post
    I'm sorry but no. A 2.1 sec cast time is already big enough for anybody with half a brain to counter it. If people are getting off 3 sec cast Chaos Bolts, then opponents are extremely bad. No spec whatsoever has its biggest nuke on such a long cast time, and most of them are performing much better. Chaos Bolt is not overpowered, if anything it's relatively underpowered. The fact that it has so much damage tied into it makes it unbalanced (note that I said unbalanced, not overpowered).

    As for mandatory glyphs, I was talking about glyph of Conflagrate and glyph of Burning Embers.
    "I'm sorry but no" is your opinion. Unless you are trained down by several opponents (in which case you wouldn't be able to cast a backdrafted ChBolt either), maybe you should try some CC before u start casting Chaos Bolts. A stun, fear, coil or silence can disable your opponent long enough so you can do your casting.

    If you just stand there trying to cast while a melee is on you ready to interrupt, I really don't know what u expect. But again, I'd rather have bigger Chaos Bolts with 3 sec cast time than average hitting Chaos Bolts with 2 sec cast time.

  19. #999
    Quote Originally Posted by darlissa View Post
    "I'm sorry but no" is your opinion. Unless you are trained down by several opponents (in which case you wouldn't be able to cast a backdrafted ChBolt either), maybe you should try some CC before u start casting Chaos Bolts. A stun, fear, coil or silence can disable your opponent long enough so you can do your casting.

    If you just stand there trying to cast while a melee is on you ready to interrupt, I really don't know what u expect. But again, I'd rather have bigger Chaos Bolts with 3 sec cast time than average hitting Chaos Bolts with 2 sec cast time.
    It's easy to say this on paper, but it's not how it actually works. Why do you think Demonology is better off than Destruction? Watch streams, ladders and even the battle.net world championships, and you'll see how nearly impossible it is to land successful Chaos Bolts in your full burst window against competent, knowledgeable players. You may prefer a bigger cast with bigger damage, but in the end the more spread out spells with shorter cast times that output the same amount of damage within the same interval of time are plain better. It's not my opinion, it's the case in PvP's current incarnation.
    Last edited by Phoenexis; 2012-11-23 at 01:44 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nivrax View Post
    You may be on to something here... GC claimed Ret Paladins killed his parents. Could it be that Warlocks drained Celas' dog soul?

  20. #1000
    Quote Originally Posted by LeyrHao View Post
    I really like this idea. But I think it should be baseline instead of glyphed, Destro is already limited on glyph choices and can't really sacrify other glyphs.
    I'd like to see the following baseline: when an enemy aflicted by immolate dies it will explode dealing damage to surrounded enemies equal to the amount of immolate remaining or maybe a set amount related to spell power. Immolate isn't very powerful, so it won't affect anything and would make aoe'ing a bit nicer.
    That's basically Living Bomb. Plus, I could see something like that getting out of hand with FnB.

    Destro AoE is actually in a really good place right now, and will be even better come 5.1. What it NEEDS is a single target boost (though recent sims put Destro only 2k behind Demo in 5.1)

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