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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Pally1 View Post
    Abilities in this game seem quite terrible to me, i mean, average cooldown is somewhere around 30 sec on pretty much anything, stuff lasts on for few seconds and than gets on a CD for a minute.

    I find my guardian lacking buttons to push, its like nonstop auto attack all the way with soem almost useless long CD bursts.

    Coming from WoWs gameplay, this feels very cheap =[.
    hmm, I would agree and disagree with you.

    I agree that many weapon sets and utility skills have long CDs and as such become very situational and so in normal fights your mostly using "skill 1" and one other skill on CDs while the rest you use situationaly.

    But I would also disagree of lack of button "pushing" at the same time. Wait, how can I agree that you are not using many skills yet disagree with amount of button pushing? Simple in games like (for your example) WoW you have more spell options at any given time and most of which do not have CDs, but for the most part unless a green/purple puddle is under you all you press as far as buttons go is spells. While as here you may have less spells at your disposal with 10-60 second CD on each you are constantly having to keep positioning with moving and dodging and kiting, so while your fingers may not be as busy up in the 1 through 0 range of your keyboard (or your key binding equivalent) they are constantly having to be used for "wasd" keys and v (again depending on your key bindings).

    Point is just because your not constantly having to spam skills you are being just as much active via having to keep on the move and it is much more reaction based rather then rotation based and so though it may be technically less keystrokes since you can constantly hold down the straif key it does take more effort into paying attention and not just getting to fight A and going "ok I am going to press 1,1,1,2,1,3,1,1,1,2,1,3,1,1,1,2,1,3, move 3 inches left, 1,1,1,2,1,3,1,1,1,2..." to win, its "ok I am going to auto attack, every time I get a chance to bleed I will cast that on CD, every time the enemy starts getting to close to me I will snare if its not on CD, if it is on CD then Ill use blind instead untill my snare is off CD, and make sure to apply volnerability whenever I am about to burn all my damage dealing CDs to do 10% more damage on those CDs while at the same time constantly straifing and occasionally dodging to not get killed in 2 hits"

    Its just a different play style game, one is heavy on casting a lot of spells quickly but all but ignores positioning outside of the occasional step out of the fire, while the other is heavy on positioning and light on the using spells outside of situational circumstances. Both your doing about the same amount of work but one or the other will feel like more work which is highly subjective. Me personally I find the keeping position more engaging then hiting the same spell rotation over and over, but like I said that is subjective.

  2. #22
    I can not comment on other classes, but the OP's class Guardian has a lot of class skills (not weapon skills) on extremely long cooldowns. Some of the skills ie Sanctuary are basically on 90 sec - 2 min CD. For most classes this is what their Elite Skill is on. I can see how he would feel this way. It would be nice if there were a handful of skills on <20 sec cooldowns to use.

    I suggest running a Spirit Weapon build. This always gives you something to do as you can fire off their skills when traited.
    Would also suggest swapping between weapons constantly. While not really necessary, swapping between GS and Hammer during combat gives the illusion of being busier.

  3. #23
    I prefer the WoW style combat (well not WoW anymore since they removed resource management the combat went into a x>y>z rotation which sucks, a mage in Rift is fun combat). I wouldn't mind the 80% autoattack combat if the cooldown spells were interesting, but as it stands they're not that exciting just generic aoe spells, a channeled single target spell or utility/support spells.

  4. #24
    What GW2 does is try to go away from the Guitar Hero based gameplay like WoW (which consists of you pressing the right buttons in the right sequence) more to positional combat. In games like WoW you'd have a number of abilities which must be used in sequence to maintain your damage + situational utility abilities. GW2 consolidates them into few skills. Basically, a single skill in GW2 does the same thing as multiple skills in games like WoW. Whether you like it or not, its a matter of personal preference. I like GW2's model better - in the end, it does a better job (giving you access to more abilities/playstyles per profession) while avoiding the Guitar Hero stuff. I mean, if I want to play Guitar Hero, I"d play guitar hero. Imagine a first person shooter where you had to perform a small minigame with your keys for a headshot ^^

    I agree though that some professions feel 'better', aka. more fun than others. But this will probably be a personal thing as well. For instance, I absolutely love the Guardian gameplay with all the bluish animations, teleports and flashes, but in contrast, Necromancer seems very lacklustre to me.

  5. #25
    My Guardian has the 3 things on the top, a heal, 3 other active abilities.
    5 Abilities, switch and another 5 that i press constantly.

    Something very important to understand is that 1 is not an autoattack but simply an ability without a cooldown, heck the third strike is actually important to time.

    I dislike playing GW2 in PvE because of that but for PvP its perfect.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Televators View Post
    I've not played GW2, but with these poor excuses, it doesn't say a lot for the game. How on earth could you compare WoW's mechanics (and it's a HELL of a lot more than a 5 ability rotation -- especially in PvP) which may include 40 or more keybinds to auto-attack? One requires absolutely no input and the other is fluid and engrossing, even if you find it to be tedious.
    You are nothing more than a turret in wow. You would seem to be an overly complicated turret if you use 40 key binds. What class did you play and what did you use the other 30 key binds for?

    I don't know what class people are going on about that only auto attacks but even that would be more fun than wow combat. Simply due to the fact that you move about. Running about and dodging attacks is much more engaging than planting your feet and only moving when DBM tells you to. GW2 may in some cases have less button to press but it beats being a turret imho.
    This is the tale not of the Horde as it exists today, a loose organization of orc,tauren,forsaken,troll, and blood elf, but of the rise of the very first Horde. Its birth, like that of any infant, was marked by blood and pain, and its harsh cries for life meant death to its enemies.

  7. #27
    The Patient Amanaki's Avatar
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    If you think GW2 combat is boring and easy, try going underwater in a zone higher lvl than you and then watch as enemies swarm in from all sides, and you will have to evade everything... Just did just that as lvl 8 among lvl 11 mobs... Was hard as nails... The 3D envoirment makes it incredibly hard to keep overview...

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Moomurr View Post
    You are nothing more than a turret in wow. You would seem to be an overly complicated turret if you use 40 key binds. What class did you play and what did you use the other 30 key binds for?

    I don't know what class people are going on about that only auto attacks but even that would be more fun than wow combat. Simply due to the fact that you move about. Running about and dodging attacks is much more engaging than planting your feet and only moving when DBM tells you to. GW2 may in some cases have less button to press but it beats being a turret imho.
    This is flat out wrong:

    1. Positioning is important in WOW ( other hotkey mmo-s)- you have 90 degree cleaves, positioning behind enemies for various bonuses, cones, LOS
    2. You have to be aware of your environment (don't stand in the fire)


    Now please do tell how you are only a turret in "WOW".
    Moreover if you feel DMB ruins your game-play stop using it altogether since there are visual or audio ques for most deadly attacks.

    As to my opinion on the topic, well I went into GW2 convinced i an engineer would provide the engaging game-play I was longing for, it didn't. In fact I like the plain old warrior game-play more. And I found the high mobilty, fast atack play style I was looking for in Diablo 3 as a demon hunter, different cup of tea but more to my liking.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Diocassius View Post
    This is flat out wrong:

    1. Positioning is important in WOW ( other hotkey mmo-s)- you have 90 degree cleaves, positioning behind enemies for various bonuses, cones, LOS
    2. You have to be aware of your environment (don't stand in the fire)


    Now please do tell how you are only a turret in "WOW".
    Moreover if you feel DMB ruins your game-play stop using it altogether since there are visual or audio ques for most deadly attacks.

    As to my opinion on the topic, well I went into GW2 convinced i an engineer would provide the engaging game-play I was longing for, it didn't. In fact I like the plain old warrior game-play more. And I found the high mobilty, fast atack play style I was looking for in Diablo 3 as a demon hunter, different cup of tea but more to my liking.
    I think he's mostly talking about the fact that you can't move while channeling spells.

    I somwhat agree though, while it felt pretty good to time that Proc in WoW, the interesting parts of the combat there weren't the dps rotations, but rather the boss mechanics. I couldn't stand playing a caster in wow because of how still you'd have to stand all the time.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Diocassius View Post

    Now please do tell how you are only a turret in "WOW".
    Simply because you have to stand still to cast stuff just like a turret? If people prefer that type of combat then fill your boots. With newer mmos adopting the action style combat i think it highlights how archaic the stand-cast turret style is. I just find a boss that actually chases after you while chucking out AOE/abilities that you have to avoid preferable to a boss some guy is tanking over in a corner while it just chucks out blobs of goo you have to avoid. Each to their own as they say.
    This is the tale not of the Horde as it exists today, a loose organization of orc,tauren,forsaken,troll, and blood elf, but of the rise of the very first Horde. Its birth, like that of any infant, was marked by blood and pain, and its harsh cries for life meant death to its enemies.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by barackopala View Post
    So you do dps with your main skill and you use the others as situational spells... is that bad? WoW made you press 1-2-3-4-5-1 to do dps... not too exciting .-.
    did you just do what i think you just did?

    you said 1-2-3-4-1 is worse than autoattack followed by 2 or 3 every 15th sec ?

  12. #32
    Some classes / weapons are definitely more involving than others.
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  13. #33
    Situational is infinitely more interesting than rotational. Then again, if you are sitting back auto attacking a mob to death in GW2, you're fucking doing it wrong. (...or are level 1)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hockeyhacker View Post
    Its just a different play style game, one is heavy on casting a lot of spells quickly but all but ignores positioning outside of the occasional step out of the fire, while the other is heavy on positioning and light on the using spells outside of situational circumstances.
    Quite frankly it's just whether you prefer your combat to be based on twitch/skill-based play, or muscle memory autopilot... Personally I think the answer is pretty obvious.
    Last edited by Drakhar; 2012-10-12 at 01:05 PM.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Pally1 View Post
    Abilities in this game seem quite terrible to me, i mean, average cooldown is somewhere around 30 sec on pretty much anything, stuff lasts on for few seconds and than gets on a CD for a minute.

    I find my guardian lacking buttons to push, its like nonstop auto attack all the way with soem almost useless long CD bursts.

    Coming from WoWs gameplay, this feels very cheap =[.
    Well, utility skills might have long cooldowns, but weapons skills definitely do not.
    I play a Greatsword guardian and whirling wrath is on a 10 second CD (8 if you pick the trait that reduces 2 handed CDs).
    All the other skills also have CDs below 30 seconds (longest is binding blade with 30 seconds actually).
    Most other weapons have similiar CDs.

    How interresting your gameplay is mainly depends on what weapon you use, which traits you get, even which profession you play.
    So if you don't like the gameplay of your character, try changing some of those things.
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  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Pally1 View Post
    Abilities in this game seem quite terrible to me, i mean, average cooldown is somewhere around 30 sec on pretty much anything, stuff lasts on for few seconds and than gets on a CD for a minute.

    I find my guardian lacking buttons to push, its like nonstop auto attack all the way with soem almost useless long CD bursts.

    Coming from WoWs gameplay, this feels very cheap =[.
    what setup do you use. I have a guardian and use a scepter+focus sword+shield(or torch) that's 10 abilites and I use them all constantly. I also use my 3 virtues constantly, my heal, purging flames (17 sec cd). Once I get through my full rotation of those abilites my other 2 utilities are recharged again or I pop my elite which gives me a further 5 abilities to spam.

    that's 17 (22 including elite) abilities that I am using a lot during a fight. That's more than enough for me.
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  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Drakhar View Post
    Situational is infinitely more interesting than rotational. Then again, if you are sitting back auto attacking a mob to death in GW2, you're fucking doing it wrong. (...or are level 1)
    No, this is flat out false for many professions and weapons choices. The on by default auto-attack is the highest and most consistent means of damage. Such that many skill rotations in Guild Wars 2 are intended to bolster the auto attack.

    For example a mainhand sword Ranger or Warrior are doing it right by letting their auto-attack run. They lose damage by using other abilities.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Moomurr View Post
    Simply because you have to stand still to cast stuff just like a turret? If people prefer that type of combat then fill your boots. With newer mmos adopting the action style combat i think it highlights how archaic the stand-cast turret style is. I just find a boss that actually chases after you while chucking out AOE/abilities that you have to avoid preferable to a boss some guy is tanking over in a corner while it just chucks out blobs of goo you have to avoid. Each to their own as they say.
    moving while casting is a cd for most classes in wow afaik, except for hunter...i don't know why the design choice.

    Agreed on bosses chasing you, too bad most gw2 high profile baddies are huge lumps of meat that walk/fly around calling in minions while you occasionally interact by hurling stuff at them or gnawing on their toes. Think fail of deathwing , that was a design worth copying.

  18. #38
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diocassius View Post
    moving while casting is a cd for most classes in wow afaik, except for hunter...i don't know why the design choice.

    Agreed on bosses chasing you, too bad most gw2 high profile baddies are huge lumps of meat that walk/fly around calling in minions while you occasionally interact by hurling stuff at them or gnawing on their toes. Think fail of deathwing , that was a design worth copying.
    Idk about you but the Zhaitan fight was a lot more interesting then deathwings... Was it hard after his 1 shot ooze breathe and throwing his heads at you was fixed? No not really, but he's not the last boss, he's just the last boss for the story missions, mechanics wise he was fairly dull, but whole gameplay wise and just apperance/feel wise it was fucking epic! Not to mention the whole getting to him aspect, that by itself was pretty awesome...
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  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Diocassius View Post
    moving while casting is a cd for most classes in wow afaik, except for hunter...i don't know why the design choice.

    Agreed on bosses chasing you, too bad most gw2 high profile baddies are huge lumps of meat that walk/fly around calling in minions while you occasionally interact by hurling stuff at them or gnawing on their toes. Think fail of deathwing , that was a design worth copying.
    So..you're saying DW where it is: Stand on platform, kill tentacle, kill adds, kill wing/claw. Jump platform. Repeat. Jump platform. Repeat. Jump platform. Repeat. Jump platform. Kill adds. Kill more adds. Kill head. Loot. Yes, that is an encounter worth copying.

  20. #40
    Idk about you but the Zhaitan fight was a lot more interesting then deathwings...
    You mean the bugged dragon that just hangs around? Yeah, that was interesting as all heck.

    Oh wait, no, you just meant he was prettier. Ok, we can argue art, but lets not confuse it with encounter design and gameplay.

    So much hyperbole goes on in these threads.

    So..you're saying DW where it is: Stand on platform, kill tentacle, kill adds, kill wing/claw. Jump platform. Repeat. Jump platform. Repeat. Jump platform. Repeat. Jump platform. Kill adds. Kill more adds. Kill head. Loot. Yes, that is an encounter worth copying.
    Seriously? If you want to play the oversimplification game, we can do that in spades for GW2.

    "Kite, kite, kite, kite, kite, pew pew, kite more, kite some more, kite, pew pew pew pew some more (7 minutes later) yay, we killed it."

    What fight did I just describe? ALL OF THEM. <3
    Last edited by Bovinity Divinity; 2012-10-12 at 04:09 PM.

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