Where are you on the meters?

[Johnx014]

This is my first expansion raiding as Ret and it feels weak compared to other classes. Myself and the other ret in the raid are always within a 100k of each other doing around the same amount of damage. We both burst and hit top damage at the start of the fight but both finish bottom 5. How are you doing in your raid?

[Requital]

This is my first expansion raiding as Ret and it feels weak compared to other classes. Myself and the other ret in the raid are always within a 100k of each other doing around the same amount of damage. We both burst and hit top damage at the start of the fight but both finish bottom 5. How are you doing in your raid?

It varies I would say 3-7 is a good guess being slightly under geared compared to the other people in the raid.

[Foleus]

1-6 usually.

[Ater]

There are some decent stats available now, raidbots have done some maths for us, taking the top 100 from each class from world of logs and then calculated the median value for each class. This is how it looks right now in 10 man normal (monks are bugged right now in there statistics so skipping them):

1. Warlock - 70783 dps
2. Priest - 67105 dps
3. Mage - 66826 dps
4. Hunter - 63440 dps
5. DK - 62561 dps
6. Rogue - 61550 dps
7. Druid - 61190 dps
8. Shaman - 61068 dps
9. Warrior - 60867 dps
10. Paladin - 60071 dps

This is the median value for all the six bosses. Using 10 man normal since there aren't many heroic logs available.

[Elapo]

1. Warlock - 70783 dps
2. Priest - 67105 dps
3. Mage - 66826 dps
4. Hunter - 63440 dps
5. DK - 62561 dps
6. Rogue - 61550 dps
7. Druid - 61190 dps
8. Shaman - 61068 dps
9. Warrior - 60867 dps
10. Paladin - 60071 dps

This list doesn't make a lot of sense, you took "hunter" as 1, same for rogue, warlock, druid, DK, mage and Warrior.

Those classes have more then one DPS spec. Paladin isn't the lowest.

[Pacer]

This list doesn't make a lot of sense, you took "hunter" as 1, same for rogue, warlock, druid, DK, mage and Warrior.

Those classes have more then one DPS spec. Paladin isn't the lowest.

Those classes can respec while paladins have to reroll so yes paladins are the lowest.

[Spoonman]

Rank 11 and 19 on World of logs on 2 fights in Vaults as healer last raid

[Ryve]

Those classes can respec while paladins have to reroll so yes paladins are the lowest.

It's OK, by the end of the expansion I'm sure they'll buff ret so that they're... Adequate.

Ret was my favourite spec in the game, however to Blizzard it's always been the red-headed step child. I never wanted them to be overpowered, but I feel viability should come and go with each tier/PvP season - not a matter of going from a liability to mildly viable and back constantly, with one brief period in Wrath. It is hilarious to see rogues as middle of the pack, for all the crying they're doing.

[Foxydin]

I got some logs from our 10m Hc on Feng from last night

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...rce/?target=36

Id say ret does pretty well, mostly 1-2, depends on the tanks veangence from fight mechanics really..

[Zelgius]

I got some logs from our 10m Hc on Feng from last night

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...rce/?target=36

Id say ret does pretty well, mostly 1-2, depends on the tanks veangence from fight mechanics really..

That log is pretty misleading since you have 35% Divine storm, meaning this is mostly AoE dps and not Single target.
Our single target is kind of mediocre where as our AoE is great.

[Elapo]

Those classes can respec while paladins have to reroll so yes paladins are the lowest.

So can you.

Why don't you? Because you like ret above holy/prot. Our lock ONLY wants to play affliction in PvE (in fact, he hasn't respecced since TBC), he dislikes destruction/demon. Our DPS druid wants to be balance, because he likes it more. On my shaman, I want to be ele because I don't like enha.

See where I'm going with this? It's not a class who does better DPS, it's a spec. Only real high end players (of which there aren't as much as there are "casual" raiders) respec or even reroll because of DPS.

[Create]

Elem shaman in 10m guild, simalirily geared to the other dps except the rogue, (rogue combat/sub, DK 2h frost, Wlock affli, hunter bm) I am usually n1 dps except for on first boss in vaults where the rogue is unbeatable due to cleave dmg and significantly better gear...

[JajaBongs]

There are some decent stats available now, raidbots have done some maths for us, taking the top 100 from each class from world of logs and then calculated the median value for each class. This is how it looks right now in 10 man normal (monks are bugged right now in there statistics so skipping them):

1. Warlock - 70783 dps
2. Priest - 67105 dps
3. Mage - 66826 dps
4. Hunter - 63440 dps
5. DK - 62561 dps
6. Rogue - 61550 dps
7. Druid - 61190 dps
8. Shaman - 61068 dps
9. Warrior - 60867 dps
10. Paladin - 60071 dps

This is the median value for all the six bosses. Using 10 man normal since there aren't many heroic logs available.

those list is really wrong, i think the raidbots did kindergarden math

[Pacer]

So can you.

Why don't you? Because you like ret above holy/prot. Our lock ONLY wants to play affliction in PvE (in fact, he hasn't respecced since TBC), he dislikes destruction/demon. Our DPS druid wants to be balance, because he likes it more. On my shaman, I want to be ele because I don't like enha.

See where I'm going with this? It's not a class who does better DPS, it's a spec. Only real high end players (of which there aren't as much as there are "casual" raiders) respec or even reroll because of DPS.

Its not the same and you know it, someone who chooses to play ret does it because he 1. wants to be a dps 2. likes his paladin and 3. likes the ret play style. Number 1 and 2 is a much bigger factor than number 3 for both paladins but also any other class. Why? Because you get attached to your "main character" over the years, maybe because you have 50 exalted factions or just because you have done 5000 hours of play time on the paladin while you have only done 100 on the rest of the classes.

This is comming from someone who never played ret as main spec and never will, not because I dislike ret but because I dislike being a dps in general. Additionally I will never reroll either, even tho monks do aproximately 20k more hps than paladins at the moment (thats about 33% better). I play my paladin because im attached to it just like I expect some ret paladins to be attached to their paladin. If they prefer to be a dps and they have 5000-10000 hours played on their paladin like me they are not going to want to reroll.

[Xiphias]

So can you.

Why don't you? Because you like ret above holy/prot. Our lock ONLY wants to play affliction in PvE (in fact, he hasn't respecced since TBC), he dislikes destruction/demon. Our DPS druid wants to be balance, because he likes it more. On my shaman, I want to be ele because I don't like enha.

See where I'm going with this? It's not a class who does better DPS, it's a spec. Only real high end players (of which there aren't as much as there are "casual" raiders) respec or even reroll because of DPS.

Yes, but if you're being brought because your Guild needs another DPS, you can't "change specs" to do adequate DPS - you're forced to reroll. A Subtlety Rogue can just change specs to a second spec (which is also going to be DPS, but might do better DPS even if it's a bit less fun for the rogue). A Paladin's offspec might be Prot or Holy, and he might enjoy playing those too - but it means he'll never be brought for his DPS.

It may be true that people won't want to bring an Affliction Warlock if the Demonology Warlocks are the one brining the heaviest DPS - however, that Warlock can easily have Demonology as their offspec and even use pretty much the same gear (possibly with different reforges) if he doesn't want to get benched. A Paladin doesn't have that luxury - the only DPS we can bring is as Ret, so if Ret is underperforming, the Paladin is benched. He is forced to reroll. That's unacceptable.

(To be honest, though, I'm not finding myself low on the meters personally, but that's probably because I am better geared than most and I know my rotations and priorities well, unlike some :P )

[Foxydin]

That log is pretty misleading since you have 35% Divine storm, meaning this is mostly AoE dps and not Single target.
Our single target is kind of mediocre where as our AoE is great.

Well that pharse is only from our dmg on Soul fragments, adds that need to be killed before they reach the shield and heal him.

This is overall dmg from the whole night http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...um/damageDone/

[Requital]

I got some logs from our 10m Hc on Feng from last night

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...rce/?target=36

Id say ret does pretty well, mostly 1-2, depends on the tanks veangence from fight mechanics really..

Feng has an AE phase depending on what method you use and what order you use these are very skewed results and most definitely shouldn't be used to indicate where Ret is.

---------- Post added 2012-10-12 at 03:35 PM ----------

So can you.

Why don't you? Because you like ret above holy/prot. Our lock ONLY wants to play affliction in PvE (in fact, he hasn't respecced since TBC), he dislikes destruction/demon. Our DPS druid wants to be balance, because he likes it more. On my shaman, I want to be ele because I don't like enha.

See where I'm going with this? It's not a class who does better DPS, it's a spec. Only real high end players (of which there aren't as much as there are "casual" raiders) respec or even reroll because of DPS.

I'm sorry but that is just you being a casual player looking at it like that. Ret is the only DPS spec for a Paladin we are talking about DPS not the freedom to be Holy or Prot. On the other hand a Hunter/Mage/Lock/Rogue have 3 DPS specs and should bring the one the most beneficial for the raid and if they aren't it's their problem but in no way does it change that Ret is pretty much last.

[Sythari]

Usually 2nd/3rd.

[Floross]

Enough to be kept in the raid and kill 4/6 so far .

Just me or from the first 4 bosses on 10man Spirit Kings was the easiest ?

[Esfandiyar]

I don't raid or do serious pve atm, but in HCs i am normally 2/3rd and i am very happy with that, considering the ones at the top are Warriors or Mages.