I just don't get it.. (Moonkin PvE topic)

[lolstorm]

Earlier I was focussing on crit as my prio stat, and I did ~45k dps on boss fights and ~45k dps also on the raiding dummy. But after reading serveral guides regarding boomkin dps, I switched over to haste. Currently, I am at 5406 haste & 14,95% hit. I just tested my dps on a raid dummy and it was ~35k at all times. What?! What did I do wrong?

Also, does anyone know how to input the correct values in ''Ask mr robot'' when going for the soft haste cap. Thanks.

[Viggers]

sim your character instead of just reading guides. also, target dummy dps is a poor test, because fully raid buffed your stat weights may be completely different to just self buffed

[mikoslav]

Earlier I was focussing on crit as my prio stat, and I did ~45k dps on boss fights and ~45k dps also on the raiding dummy. But after reading serveral guides regarding boomkin dps, I switched over to haste. Currently, I am at 5406 haste & 14,95% hit. I just tested my dps on a raid dummy and it was ~35k at all times. What?! What did I do wrong?

Also, does anyone know how to input the correct values in ''Ask mr robot'' when going for the soft haste cap. Thanks.

you can do as Sunfyre suggests in moonkin guide or

you can choose to
not go to haste that much.
also - not go all the way for crit,
make it a bit balanced,
this way you will get enough critticks to get SS procs, and not as many that it goes wasted,
cos sometimes before you can cast your SS (that just procced), you need to finish some cast (i.e. starfire),
and before you finish your starfire cast, you d be getting another SS proc.
Still, if that happens, when I started casting starfire/wrath and I see SS proc, I interrupt my cast (usually by moving forward a little with my both mouse buttons) and use SS.

situatuion will probably change when you re able to get more than 30-40% of crit,
then you could stop using starfire/wrath in your rotation
and just dot/multidot with moonfire/sunfire, using frequent SS procs for moving the eclipse bar forth and back.
but this will be more valid for higher I lvl gear.

Currently my own stats are balanced, hit capped, haste is about 3200, crit about 15%, rest is mastery, (my gear is about 470 I lvl - more or less properly enchanted and gemmed), and even in single target fights (not raid bosses) I get spikes of 65-70 k dps, due to chain SS procs (ad proper starfall use - yes single target, I always try to be one cast from lunar eclipse with starfall ready, I try to use astral communion a lot - although rarely when already in combat)

[lolstorm]

According to simcraft, I should have 53878 dps. How can I see what my dps would be if I put all crit in? Or how do I find out what would be the best for me? (Never used simcraft before). Thanks.

[mikoslav]

According to simcraft, I should have 53878 dps. How can I see what my dps would be if I put all crit in? Or how do I find out what would be the best for me? (Never used simcraft before). Thanks.

I do not trust any dps calculator, unless you mastered your rotation and you re only dpsing the dummy. Raid environment is different, on 1 hand it allows more dps because of raid buffs (and possible buffing encounter mechanics), on the other hand it makes your dps weaker due to encounter mechanics. It also depends on your dealing dmg tactics (talents, spells and CDs you use, and their timing).
What I want to say is - PRACTICE is the most valid way to check what stats work best for your style.
Calculator can help when you mastered how your dmg dealing tactics should work in given encounter.
I d focus more on mastering this tactics, then when you understand it well, it s easier to decide what stat priority is best for you.
For elitists it can even lead to reforging differently before every encounter.

I might be wrong with what I state above, but I doubt it

[lolstorm]

Here's my armory for anyone interested:
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Smussy/simple

[mikoslav]

Here's my armory for anyone interested:
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Smussy/simple

it begs for sudden insight bracers (450) from klaxxi - honored for 1250 justice.

mastery on your belt - not reforged

[lolstorm]

it begs for sudden insight bracers (450) from klaxxi - honored for 1250 justice.

mastery on your belt - not reforged

Got the iL463 bracers, just not updated. And thanks, forgot about that one.

[Celar]

Why the fuck on earth do you reforge crit away? Its your best secondary stat.

[Batix]

If you're doing the same dps on a dummy that you're doing in raid, you're doing something wrong. Logs?

---------- Post added 2012-10-12 at 07:34 AM ----------

Why the fuck on earth do you reforge crit away? Its your best secondary stat.

It's our best secondary stat...
POST 5273 haste rating.

[lolstorm]

Why the fuck on earth do you reforge crit away? Its your best secondary stat.

Because I need to reach the haste softcap?

If you're doing the same dps on a dummy that you're doing in raid, you're doing something wrong. Logs?

---------- Post added 2012-10-12 at 07:34 AM ----------



It's our best secondary stat...
POST 5273 haste rating.

I am pretty confident about my rotation being good as it is. And sorry, don't have any logs.

Just adding here: I am doing a ''stable'' 30k dps on a raid dummy at the moment, where I had 45k ''stable'' dps with crit gemmed/reforged before. With stable I mean I am using zero cooldowns, not even starfall (due to multi-hitting dummies). If I dropped 15k of dps on a raid dummy, I find it safe to assume my dps won't increase on boss fights either compared to crit.

Edit: At the first boss on LFR difficulty I did 45k without any major cd and 49 - 50k with cd. Still pretty low, if you ask me.

---------- Post added 2012-10-12 at 02:14 PM ----------

Actually, when thinking this through, I might know what the problem is. I am sacrificing WAY too much int for haste/spirit. So I will need better gear, so I can reach the haste soft cap by reforging & int/haste gems ONLY. Until I reach that level, I should stick with crit. Or am I completely wrong with this.

---------- Post added 2012-10-12 at 03:00 PM ----------

Did a full reforge. Currently my hit is 14.81%, haste is 5347 (12.58%, soft capped) & 3774 crit (12.58%). Doing a steady 40 - 41k dps on the boss dummy. Should it be higher or is it fine for the gear I currently have?

[Batix]

Edit: At the first boss on LFR difficulty I did 45k without any major cd and 49 - 50k with cd. Still pretty low, if you ask me.

Yes, that is extremely low for Stone Guards. I would still like to look at logs to help you further.

---------- Post added 2012-10-12 at 02:14 PM ----------

Actually, when thinking this through, I might know what the problem is. I am sacrificing WAY too much int for haste/spirit. So I will need better gear, so I can reach the haste soft cap by reforging & int/haste gems ONLY. Until I reach that level, I should stick with crit. Or am I completely wrong with this.

---------- Post added 2012-10-12 at 03:00 PM ----------

Did a full reforge. Currently my hit is 14.81%, haste is 5347 (12.58%, soft capped) & 3774 crit (12.58%). Doing a steady 40 - 41k dps on the boss dummy. Should it be higher or is it fine for the gear I currently have?

I have sacrificed a pretty decent chunk of intellect for haste/spirit gems, to be able to reforge spirit off of gear instead of crit. In order to reach the breakpoint. And for me, where I am with my gear, it was a dps increase to sacrifice the int for the breakpoint. I have no problems. One of the consistantly top ranked moonkin does this as well. I don't think there's an optimal set up for gems ALL THE TIME - this time around it has more to do with where you're at currently in gear. Secondary stat gems are extremely attractive, as they are double the value. The only intellect gems I have in are my 2 JC serpent's eyes.

[zaiid]

To put this very easy for you, drop the haste you went for and get back to crit. I know it doesn't say sound like a good, constructive feedback, but it's the best you'll get. Drop haste, go for crit and stay crit. I'm pulling around 80k dps on Stone Guards in 25 man and I have reforged everything into crit.

[Proudgnome]

I'm also wondering what stats I should go for and I am so confused...

[Sunfyre]

To put this very easy for you, drop the haste you went for and get back to crit. I know it doesn't say sound like a good, constructive feedback, but it's the best you'll get. Drop haste, go for crit and stay crit. I'm pulling around 80k dps on Stone Guards in 25 man and I have reforged everything into crit.

Except that the haste breakpoint is a higher DPS increase, whether you think so or not, the math is there. Anyone who thinks you should go full crit or go a split is wrong. You max crit AFTER haste breakpoint. You're sacrificing a DoT tick per application for what, 2000 crit? Maybe? That's less than 4% crit. It's not worth it.

[Polyman]

I've tried out both methods in the raid setting, 5273 then crit and going for crit, and the main thing I've found to affect dps is the talent choices. When I was going for crit, I took Soul of the Forest and Heart of the Wild for more sustained damage and although the choices would change for specific fights that require more burst and less Eclipse switching (Elegon and Will), I had top 10 dps logs last week. With heroics this week I switched to hitting 5273 haste with Incarnation and Nature's Vigil and have had similar success with this technique by bursting really hard when my trinket/engineering procs line up.

I think both techniques for this ilvl (mainly before 4pc T14) can be used to get similar numbers depending on your playstyle. I also like to stress to boomkins that you might have to change talents to help with your overall raid comp and this could effect how you look at stat weights as well. For example, I'm looking into taking Heart of the Wild to help with H Spiritbinder healing in the spirit realm before the hotfix, but Nature's Vigil could be enough healing by itself.

[Clukclukboom]

Except that the haste breakpoint is a higher DPS increase, whether you think so or not, the math is there. Anyone who thinks you should go full crit or go a split is wrong. You max crit AFTER haste breakpoint. You're sacrificing a DoT tick per application for what, 2000 crit? Maybe? That's less than 4% crit. It's not worth it.

Stone Guard
This may be true but i find i am refreshing the dots before they end each time(eclipsed dots)....to make sure it lasts until next eclipse (because of short length) therefore i wouldnt see the benefit of going to haste breakpoint. i have gone max crit and i am competing nicely with the other members of my raid.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...lukboom/simple

---------- Post added 2012-10-14 at 11:29 AM ----------

also OP.....how have you done LFR twice? this is still the 1st week for it

[craigp100]

The stat priority is as follows:
Intellect > Hit|Spirit (until cap - 5001/ 15%hit) > haste (up to 5293 breakpoint) > crit > mastery | haste past breakpoint
As many have mentioned in this thread, reaching this haste breakpoint is a straight through and through dps increase with sims and maths backing this and so you should aim for the 5293 haste mark.

EDIT: It is important to note that the 5293 haste breakpoint is without the 4-piece tier 14 set bonus.

[zaiid]

Take a look at the top tier boomkins out there, their not even near the haste breakpoint. Don't follow guides blindly because it tells you to.

[Sunfyre]

Stone Guard
This may be true but i find i am refreshing the dots before they end each time(eclipsed dots)....to make sure it lasts until next eclipse (because of short length) therefore i wouldnt see the benefit of going to haste breakpoint. i have gone max crit and i am competing nicely with the other members of my raid.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...lukboom/simple

---------- Post added 2012-10-14 at 11:29 AM ----------

also OP.....how have you done LFR twice? this is still the 1st week for it

Both moonkin in my guild are topping the meters with haste reforge. They're not 'competing nicely', they're blowing the rest of the raid out of the water on DPS.

---------- Post added 2012-10-14 at 08:11 PM ----------

Take a look at the top tier boomkins out there, their not even near the haste breakpoint. Don't follow guides blindly because it tells you to.

The guides are written based on the math that's there. Don't just blindly follow 'top tier moonkin' just because you think they're the end-all be-all.