1. #1

    Problems with Ask Mr. Robot/optimizing

    I used askmrrobot.com to optimize my character.
    It says I should use +320 haste gems in two slots. Then when I go to the guide on Icy Veins (there is even a link on the askmrrobot site) it says I should gem for intellect instead (int+haste if the bonuse gives int).

    I thought hit till cap > intellect > soft cap haste > crit. Or maybe first hit the haste soft cap and the rest intellect.
    I also found somewhere that at 9.xx% haste you will get an extra tick on your dots and at 24.9x% you hit the soft cap.

    So why does it say I should gem for haste, I can't even reach the soft cap? If I would do it without askmrrobot.com I would just gem int on my belt and int+haste on my boots to get the +60 int bonus.

    I have to say there is a lot of conflicting information on many websites. Also for rotations.

    EDIT: also it tells me to put int+haste in the shoulder slot and then I get a mastery bonus. Why not just gem intellect in that slot? And now I am also wondering if the meta gem is any good. Maybe I would be better of just getting the int+crit meta gem and reforge differently.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-15 at 02:15 PM ----------

    Well, I am just going to say that askmrrobot is just completely wrong. I wouldn't use that tool to optimize your character. It makes no sense at all to gem for haste when intellect > haste and you are not even close to the haste soft cap of 8085.
    Besides that, Pandaren's Step on boots instead of haste? If you got MF glyph and you are under 8085 haste getting the haste enchant is so much better than mastery and a little speed boost.

    It's so far off or did I just miss something?
    Last edited by Gilian; 2012-10-15 at 11:25 AM.

  2. #2
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    A lot of classes/specs are gemming pure secondary specs because you get more stats out of the secondary stat gems then you do with the int/ag/str gems.

    Int=3.89
    Haste=2.32

    Int gem has 160 int. Haste gem has 320 haste. Result is you get more dps from gemming pure haste than you do with int. I don't play shadow but I am pretty sure that is why you see what you do. I think I noticed Vodka's priests doing the same thing a few days ago.
    Last edited by Freia; 2012-10-15 at 03:45 PM.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    Result is you get more dps from gemming pure haste than you do with int.
    The problem with that is, stat-weights aren't set in stone. They are true for the particular gear used for simulations, but the more difference there is between your gear and the gear used to obtain the stat-weight information, the less accurate the results will be.

    There are many priests going for Int and many going for Haste. When everyone gets closer to their BiS gear, there is going to be less variety in gemming. But until then, I think everyone should decide for themselves what to do.

  4. #4
    To get proper results out of a tool you have to know how to use it properly. You need to sim your character and use those stat weights not default weights or weights pulled from other sources (as good as those sources might be otherwise). If you aren't using weights that were built on what gear you currently have and reflects the way you play (ie not setting it to elite skill level when you do sometimes make mistakes) you aren't going to get good results. Also, there is a lot of discussion about how much int is ok to give-up until you reach the 8085 haste point. That is another thing which will vary depending on how good you are at mashing the buttons.

  5. #5
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by laplacedemon View Post
    The problem with that is, stat-weights aren't set in stone. They are true for the particular gear used for simulations, but the more difference there is between your gear and the gear used to obtain the stat-weight information, the less accurate the results will be.

    There are many priests going for Int and many going for Haste. When everyone gets closer to their BiS gear, there is going to be less variety in gemming. But until then, I think everyone should decide for themselves what to do.
    My post was an example because it was pretty obvious the OP wasn't taking into account the actual number difference of stats on gems and just thinking 1 int vs 1 haste comparison.

  6. #6
    Hey there, I'm one of the people from Ask Mr. Robot. Freia is right - the secondary gems can end up being the best ones because they have twice as many stats. I have blog post about it here.

    You can put in different haste soft caps, by clicking on the 'edit weights' button. You need 0.2479 (24.79%) to reach the haste breakpoint most SP theorycrafters are suggesting, which ends up being8085 Haste on the gear.

    Gotta run, but I'll check back later today to see if I can help any further.
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  7. #7
    But what if you cant possibly reach the 8085 cap? Ive gemmed pure haste, and nothing i can do with reforges will get me to to the cap. Highest i can reach at the moment is 7000.

    So should i go back to int gems until its possible?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    My post was an example because it was pretty obvious the OP wasn't taking into account the actual number difference of stats on gems and just thinking 1 int vs 1 haste comparison.
    I think there's a miscommunication. I agree with what you're saying now, but I just wanted to emphasize that in some cases, 1 int > 2 haste.

  9. #9
    Mechagnome Veiled's Avatar
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    Mr. Robot is notorious for giving incorrect results. At the end of the day, you have to use your various resources to make your own informed decisions about how to gear. I personally haven't gemmed any "pure" gems except Int, and have stuck with the cata way of gearing. I've found better results doing that way rather than using "weird" gems.

    Once I get closer to 8085 haste, I will likely gem a few pure haste gems to reach that cap. 'Til then, not worth it.

    You're correct about the haste to boots enchant. Pandaren's Step is just wrong, wrong wrong.

    MoP Guides, Raiding and Pre-Raiding BiS Lists, Theorycrafting, Healing/DPS Help & More!

  10. #10
    Thanks for the replies. I did just think 1 int > 1 haste and didn't look at how much int/haste both gems gave me.

    I am still a little confused. Anyway, I just gemmed intellect because I simply can not reach the haste cap with the gear I have now. It could be possible that gemming for haste is better atm for me.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-16 at 08:09 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Zoopercat View Post
    Hey there, I'm one of the people from Ask Mr. Robot. Freia is right - the secondary gems can end up being the best ones because they have twice as many stats. I have blog post about it here.

    You can put in different haste soft caps, by clicking on the 'edit weights' button. You need 0.2479 (24.79%) to reach the haste breakpoint most SP theorycrafters are suggesting, which ends up being8085 Haste on the gear.

    Gotta run, but I'll check back later today to see if I can help any further.
    That's it. Still the boot enchant made no sense :P.

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