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  1. #201
    Brewmaster Buxton McGraff's Avatar
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    I love the game and am enjoying the hell out of it. Therefor I will continue to play it until that changes.
    If you don't enjoy the game, there's no harm for quitting.
    Some people love nutmeg. I hate nutmeg. Does that mean I should ridicule people who like nutmeg? Probably not.

  2. #202
    Brewmaster Salech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Italiandk View Post
    The fact that you don't like MoP doesn't mean everyone else should dislike it aswell...
    Wow, he never says that we/you should feel like he does, he just expresses how HE feels about MoP, you really should read the text before commenting on it.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    So don't do the dailies if you don't like them. There are alternatives. People keep saying dailies are so terrible when they've convinced themselves that they are mandatory or something. They're not. To quote someone from the o-boards:



    To which there was a blue reply:

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    This is correct. You don't need to do dailies to get the gear you need to go into dungeons or Raid. I've known of many people now who geared up without doing this (successfully and quickly). There are a variety of ways to get gear beyond the dailies including crafting and dungeon runs themselves.

    Most of the items that you can get from the dailies are either available at a lower (read not exalted) reputation or are just not necessary and are more cosmetic or fun items. Just doing the normal quests through the zones can also get you easily into Heroic dungeons and on.
    So people really shouldn't believe that they're forced to do dailies. They simply are not mandatory, borderline or otherwise. If you believe they are, the game is playing you, not the other way around.
    Except most gear can only be acquired through rep that can only be earned through dailies...so, yeah.

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  4. #204
    With all its faults woW is stil lthe best game out there. Ive listened to all of the reivews and the hype and bought Guild Wars 2, it has amazing graphics and beautifull world, but dear god is its questing and combat system beyond terrible.

    If you think WoW's quests are way to grindy, wait till you get to GW2. Your characters main story is noly thing that you can consider to be a quest, everything else, and so called side quests are just kill X amount of mobs, nothing else. all you do in game is run around a very beautiful lworld and kill stuff nonstop. Its like some sort of korean gringfest game. Zone have no story, you just get a heart on the map or event, you need to go there and kill mobs, and thats pretty much all you do every day, every second. Run around and kill X amount of mobs in different locations. No story, nothing.

    And combat system is another marvel of boredom. All you get are 2 or 3 abilities on every weapon(Most of the time you use only 1 weapon so its just 2 or 3 abilities) with extremely long cooldowns to be even remotely fun. And some buffs that last up to 5 sec(5 sec is usually longest duration) and have around 1 min cooldown.

    GW2 is the most boring game ive ever played in my life. It has the most beautifull world and graphics of all MMOs, but it cant compensate lack of story and nonstop grindfest and terrible combat system.

    To bad i cant get a refund for it since i bought my box in the store. Il gladly change my GW2 account for a MoP code, since i chose GW over it.

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Theholypally View Post
    Except most gear can only be acquired through rep that can only be earned through dailies...so, yeah.
    When did VP gear become most gear?

    Justice Gear does not require reputation, Heroic gear does not require reputation, LFR or Raid gear does not require reputation, you can even successfully craft gear now to start in heroics... no reputation. Do I need to start pointing out PVP gear too?

    Sorry, VP gear does not equal "most" gear. It's barely even a chunk of it.

  6. #206
    Brewmaster Salech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JajaBongs View Post
    I have heard that people say BC was the best expansion.

    As I did not play after BC until MoP now...well, it's like BC, only better. Only the heroics are easier, but still as rewarding as before....and you have much more to do

    and the storyline is bad? Do you really think that? Then you may be too cool for this game.
    You're very wrong about that statement and you should not compare MoP to TBC as TBC was far better than every expansion so far.

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Salech View Post
    You're very wrong about that statement and you should not compare MoP to TBC as TBC was far better than every expansion so far.
    Matter of opinion. I thought it was good for it's time, but weak in retrospective. I think the handling of MoP has been far superior.

  8. #208
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gurbz View Post
    So saying it is required is disingenuous. You feel it is required for you. But that is certainly not a universal truth. There are other ways to play the game, some of which are just as effective.
    No. It is required to spend Valor Points.Period.Fact.

    Like I've said before, I'm glad you are too busy bleating your $15 witha smile, but something that has become an integral part of gameplay being removed from any options should not be tolerated from consumers. Like I have also said before, Blizzard says that everything should be a part of 'end game', that there should be alternate ways to accomplish things, and their solution was to put Valor Points on almost everything. Then they cause a huge disconnect with their own ideals by requiring reputation to use Valor Points. This isn't even an opinion, it's me showing you a logical flaw in what they say versus what they do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gurbz View Post
    What you are basically saying is that Blizzard has not made it convenient or easy for you to play the way you want, therefore the design is bad. You are wanting Blizzard to design the game around your playstyle, instead of you adjusting your playstyle to fit the design of the game. I'm sorry but it really does not work like that.
    No. They have gone completely against what they set the standard for since TBC. They have completely gone against what they have stated as a design goal. They have also have implemented contradictory systems, while diminishing the returns from existing systems. You could remove all opinion or emotion out of this argument and it makes it even more solid. It has absolutely nothing to do with my playstyle.

    What if they went one more step and allowed you to raid, with the bosses dropping loot tokens. Instead of bosses dropping loot, or dropping tokens that you can easily convert to loot, they instead required you to grind out 10 reputations to exalted depending on which loot token you have? Would you just as easily swallow the BS like you are now? You might smile and lie on the forums that you would, but it's the same damn issue and no one would allow it.

  9. #209
    JP items no longer require rep. I wish people would stop posting that they do.

    Now let's look at the possible rewards from the rep dailies:

    1.) vanity items

    Doesn't sound like most people have a problem with this.


    2.) gear

    If you raid, then the VP gear isn't any better than raid gear. If you don't raid, it's a way to acquire a few pieces of gear. It could help raise your ilvl to get into LFR, though I'm not sure why raiders would care about that.


    3.) recipes

    Yeah, it's annoying to have to grind a full rep to get a good recipe. But anyone remember how they used to distribute high end recipes before sticking them on reps? BOE world drops that were common enough that you just go to the AH and buy it cheaply. BOP world drops that you just kind of automatically got while questing. BOE world drops that were so rare that you either had to spend a massive amount of gold to buy it off the AH or spend weeks/months farming yourself. And then there were the stupid recipes that dropped only off specific mobs in specific dungeons so you needed to convince other people to go there to help you farm.

    There's just no good way to distribute recipes that you don't want to just hand everyone from the trainer. Overall, I like the rep system best because I know that if I spend a specific amount of time on a particular rep, I can get that recipe. If I'm not willing to do the grind, I won't get the recipe. I've never had every single current recipe on a character with non-trainer recipes. But the rep recipes are much more feasible for me to do than the rare drops ever were.

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Here's the problem. It's not up to you to dictate how other people raid. What one guild requires or doesn't require is of no concern to you. However, you cannot say that your way is maximum potential. What I am telling you is a fact. In order to achieve that max potential, regardless of the level of intensity or success at actual raiding, you have to do everything available to you. This is not up for debate, it's a concept of science, math, and language.

    Additionally, you mention that you want them to be fully gemmed and enchanted, but many of these recipes only come from maxing reputations as I have already pointed out. I'm assuming then that you have a few eager beavers whose backs you don't mind climbing up, or you are lazy as hell and will depend on the server economy to provide that for you.

    Most people don't set such low goals for themself in this game.
    I never claimed my method is "maximum potential". Keep in mind we are still 0/6 because we haven't even stepped foot into the raid yet. I am not arguing that to reach max potential then you have to do everything in game. I am saying that you can be competent in raiding and be H6/6 without doing a single daily.

    You can purchase the gem/enchants that you need. That is not lazy, that's simply a choice a person can make. I didn't calculate how much that'd cost but it won't be more than 15k on my server (which is pretty cheap).

    WoW is about skill, not gears. I'd dare say normal vault is tuned for ilvl 463 and H Vault is tuned for ilvl ~470. There are 2 ways to kill more bosses when you are stuck and your raid is at the proper ilvl:
    1. play better
    2. get more gears
    We simply choose to practice to play better while letting gears come naturally as we raid. It is my guild's mindset. We don't compete against other guilds in who kills boss first as competition isn't what motivates us to raid. Having fun and killing heroic bosses with each other is what motivates us to raid.

    What I don't understand is you say you feel forced to do all dailies in order to fully max your character in every single aspect in order to be competitive. But you are the person who "wants" to be competitive. It is like a NBA player complaining about having to go to gym all the time in order to stay competitive and say they are the gym's bitch. If you want to be competitive then why complain about the work you have to put in? You will enjoy the fruit of your hardwork when you kill heroic bosses before other people.

    Again, dailies are def not needed if you are not going for world/server first and have no interest in wow progress ranking.
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  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Zigrifid View Post
    and that is what people dont get besides if you want to go play in panda land go play in panda land

    if you want to do something different then go do something DIFFERENT no one is forcing you to play wow and no one is forcing you to defend it to the hilt (you know who are no names needed)

    and as for GW2 ive not said anything because ive not played it because i dont want to...speaking of which all those who are bitching bout GW2 being bad could it be that you have overhyped it for yourself same as Swtor which as we all know got released FAR too early and got slated because all the mmo fanboys said it was broken and it was missing features that wow DIDNT have for 5 years

    so yeah lesson of the day dont overhype youll ruin it for yourself
    Those who want never get....those who get never need....and those who need get sweet FA

  12. #212
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wow2011 View Post
    I am saying that you can be competent in raiding and be H6/6 without doing a single daily.
    This counter claim has nothing to do with my actual argument, nor almost every other person speaking up about this.

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    No. It is required to spend Valor Points.Period.Fact.
    I'm sorry but that is simply not true. You can put together a very capable gear set without ever spending a single valor point. Maybe not the very best possible, but such a gear set is not required in order to complete all available content.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Like I've said before, I'm glad you are too busy bleating your $15 witha smile, but something that has become an integral part of gameplay being removed from any options should not be tolerated from consumers. Like I have also said before, Blizzard says that everything should be a part of 'end game', that there should be alternate ways to accomplish things, and their solution was to put Valor Points on almost everything. Then they cause a huge disconnect with their own ideals by requiring reputation to use Valor Points. This isn't even an opinion, it's me showing you a logical flaw in what they say versus what they do.
    They did exactly what they said they were going to do. There are multiple paths available to gear up and progress a character. You can raid, and not worry about the factions at all. You can only do dailies and never raid, only acquiring gear through the valor points acquired from daily quests. Or you can do a combination or the two. That looks like options to me.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    No. They have gone completely against what they set the standard for since TBC. They have completely gone against what they have stated as a design goal. They have also have implemented contradictory systems, while diminishing the returns from existing systems. You could remove all opinion or emotion out of this argument and it makes it even more solid. It has absolutely nothing to do with my playstyle.
    Blizzard changed the standard, because they decided that was not a healthy way to continue to operate their game. It's their game so they dictate the rules by which it operates. I'm sorry if you do not like that, and you are certainly welcome to not be happy about it. But you need to stop trumpeting your opinion as some sort of universal truth because the fact is that there are many players who like this model much more than what was in place previously.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    What if they went one more step and allowed you to raid, with the bosses dropping loot tokens. Instead of bosses dropping loot, or dropping tokens that you can easily convert to loot, they instead required you to grind out 10 reputations to exalted depending on which loot token you have? Would you just as easily swallow the BS like you are now? You might smile and lie on the forums that you would, but it's the same damn issue and no one would allow it.
    Bad analogy. In your situation, that would be the only way to acquire gear. Then it would, by definition, be required because it would be the only option. I'll let slide the fact that your hypothetical system has more factions than currently contain gear, and that your scenario requires exalted whereas no MoP valor gear requires anything beyond revered with any faction. Therefore no it is not the same issue.



    I have yet to see a single valid argument that shows that dailies are required. All available content is able to be, and has been, cleared without utilizing even a majority of the faction rewards. You can get equivalent iLvl gear from other sources. Tier gear is not available from them, so set bonuses are not an issue. While true that you cannot necessarily maximize your character's potential without building up those reps to revered at least, it has been true since the launch of the game that reaching such a point will likely require you to do some things that you do not enjoy. But at the same time, reaching that maximum potential has also never been necessary to complete the available content of the game. It is an optional goal some players set for themselves. Thus it is your choice alone to pursue it or not, to endure activities you do not enjoy or not.
    Last edited by Gurbz; 2012-10-12 at 09:10 PM.
    All this complaining is simply further proof that Blizzard could send each and every player a real-life wish-granting flying unicorn carrying a solid gold plate of chocolate chip cookies wrapped in hundred dollar bills, and someone would whine that Blizzard sucks for not letting them choose oatmeal raisin.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    If your guild demands you slip into an elephants butt and force yourself out in a regurgation then you can't blame Blizzard for supplying the elephant.

  14. #214
    Up until today I've been enjoying MoP, but the grind is really starting to wear on me. As a player who focuses primarily on 5 man content and LFR, I feel like in order to gear at a reasonable pace I have to do the dailies. While I understand I can skip them (Terrace/Heart of Fear LFR drops equivalent ilvl gear) I still want the VP gear, so I'm putting in the grind for that.

    But the grind for VP in and of itself is awful. 5 for a daily quest = 200 a week. 30 for a dungeon = 34 dungeons. Scenarios offer no tangible rewards, out of ten or so runs I got one piece of gear and it was sadly an offspec piece (intellect leather) I already had a superior dungeon drop for. Scenarios aren't even a good way to cap VP, as they take longer than most random dungeons and still only offer 30. LFR valor rewards aren't very high, either.

    I can handle a long long rep grind, I can't handle a long valor grind, and it's overwhelming in the amount of time I have to put into the game on a daily basis. I can't keep the pace up, anymore. Forget about even playing alts and getting decent gear on them, after finally capping my monk for the week I have no interest in doing MORE quests on an alt.

  15. #215
    "Rep required gear" is not required for accessing any content in the game.

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    This counter claim has nothing to do with my actual argument, nor almost every other person speaking up about this.
    Actually it does. At least it relates to quote I used originally.

    You are complaining that you have to do all dailies in order to fully max your char.

    My point: If you choose to fully maximize your char then why complain about the hardwork you have ot put in. You can do just fine without having to fully maximize.

    Hopefully that makes my point clearer.
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  17. #217
    Well, honestly I'm an on/off player, but right now, here are the things I like or enjoyed about Pandaria.

    1. Setting, loved the music, Shaolin temple type atmosphere.
    2. New story that was pretty decent if you actually took the time to read/listen to it instead of "see yellow !, click accept, scroll to bottom to figure out objective"
    3. Call me...whatever you want but I liked my little house in FFXI, made me feel like I was a more permanent part of the world, the Tillers garden holds that same appeal to me.
    4. Monks, regardless of what you want to simplify their play-style to, they're new and honestly have some fun and unique skills that have me enjoying them regardless of performance.
    5. They're adding brawlers guild, a 1v1 monster slaying guild, that sounds amazing to me, always been a fan of soloing old content, and this is almost tailor made for people like that.
    6. Raiding - now lfr is a snoozefest, but I'm actually just happy that I have something available for my casual style. I've tried normal raids, and they seem pretty well tuned, with decent mechanics as well. I came back from a break after raiding tofw, bwd, bot, and was extremely confused by the garbage that was DS.
    7. World pvp is at least a little more prevalent, go freakin gank someone, this is WARcraft but noone seems to want to war anymore.
    We've got jack shit for horde on my server, but I'll still get ganked occasionally, and those horde will stay out challenging the (pardon the pun) hordes of alliance that come out, good on them! World pvp feels so much more gratifying than bgs, even if there really aren't any consequences.


    MOP will no doubt lose some of it's luster for me, just as the others have, but it's probably my favorite expansion as far as what they're doing with it, atmosphere etc.
    tldr: There's a good amount of things to do if you let yourself enjoy those things. If you've already got negative connotation associated with _everything_, then obviously you aren't going to enjoy _anything_, and you should quit. Not sure why people trudge through _any_ game when the whole point is to have fun.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-12 at 09:29 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirgon View Post
    Up until today I've been enjoying MoP, but the grind is really starting to wear on me. As a player who focuses primarily on 5 man content and LFR, I feel like in order to gear at a reasonable pace I have to do the dailies. While I understand I can skip them (Terrace/Heart of Fear LFR drops equivalent ilvl gear) I still want the VP gear, so I'm putting in the grind for that.

    But the grind for VP in and of itself is awful. 5 for a daily quest = 200 a week. 30 for a dungeon = 34 dungeons. Scenarios offer no tangible rewards, out of ten or so runs I got one piece of gear and it was sadly an offspec piece (intellect leather) I already had a superior dungeon drop for. Scenarios aren't even a good way to cap VP, as they take longer than most random dungeons and still only offer 30. LFR valor rewards aren't very high, either.

    I can handle a long long rep grind, I can't handle a long valor grind, and it's overwhelming in the amount of time I have to put into the game on a daily basis. I can't keep the pace up, anymore. Forget about even playing alts and getting decent gear on them, after finally capping my monk for the week I have no interest in doing MORE quests on an alt.
    If all you're doing is 5 mans and LFR, why bother with grinding valor? You absolutely don't need anything better than heroics gear for lfr, you're basically grinding for aesthetics at this point. You've leveled a main and a monk to 90 and you're complaining about the grind, you're absolutely doing that to yourself.

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by Pally1 View Post
    With all its faults woW is stil lthe best game out there. Ive listened to all of the reivews and the hype and bought Guild Wars 2, it has amazing graphics and beautifull world, but dear god is its questing and combat system beyond terrible.

    If you think WoW's quests are way to grindy, wait till you get to GW2. Your characters main story is noly thing that you can consider to be a quest, everything else, and so called side quests are just kill X amount of mobs, nothing else. all you do in game is run around a very beautiful lworld and kill stuff nonstop. Its like some sort of korean gringfest game. Zone have no story, you just get a heart on the map or event, you need to go there and kill mobs, and thats pretty much all you do every day, every second. Run around and kill X amount of mobs in different locations. No story, nothing.

    And combat system is another marvel of boredom. All you get are 2 or 3 abilities on every weapon(Most of the time you use only 1 weapon so its just 2 or 3 abilities) with extremely long cooldowns to be even remotely fun. And some buffs that last up to 5 sec(5 sec is usually longest duration) and have around 1 min cooldown.

    GW2 is the most boring game ive ever played in my life. It has the most beautifull world and graphics of all MMOs, but it cant compensate lack of story and nonstop grindfest and terrible combat system.

    To bad i cant get a refund for it since i bought my box in the store. Il gladly change my GW2 account for a MoP code, since i chose GW over it.
    Everything you said was completely wrong. You were playing GW2 similarly to how someone in WoW doesn't read all the quest text. If you actually paid attention to the events you'd find theres plenty of story to them http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTF9T4oQ480&feature=plcp or example.

    Alot of misinformation about GW2 and MoP are being thrown around. But turning around and bashing another game in defense isn't the right position to take.

  19. #219
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gurbz View Post
    I'm sorry but that is simply not true. You can put together a very capable gear set without ever spending a single valor point. Maybe not the very best possible, but such a gear set is not required in order to complete all available content.
    Since you can't be bothered to read and understand one statement of mine, let me clarify. I never said "YOU CANT PUT TOGETHER A VERY CAPABLE GEAR SET BLAH BLAH BLAH"

    I said it (DAILIES/REPUTATION..since you know that is what we have been talking about this whole damn time) is required to spend Valor Points.PERIOD.FACT.

    I didn't say it was required to get any gear in the game. I didn't say you couldn't raid without doing it. It's ok, I can see this thread has been bombarded by sheep. I don't really feel the need to respond in it anymore. Everyone I know (anectdotal, this is obvious) that has played the game for as long as I have think this is a load of crap. It's not about too much to do, it's not about gear, it's not about raids.

    Hey, if this system is good enough for you, so be it. I'm not trying to convince you that you shouldn't enjoy it. But if everyone can't even grasp how this is artificial gating, or Blizzard contradicting yourselves, be prepared to sink your money into a hole until the end of time. One day a light will click and you will realize how much money you wasted on an illusion.

    I will continue to enjoy the game for the actual good qualities it has. And I will also say I told you so, when they continue the already beginning trend of backpedaling on this bullshit daily issue until their subs remain strong. No one is going to quit because they give you more options, but people surely will quit for being funneled through the cow gates.

    I don't want to be a sheep, or a cow. Take this as a friendly bit of awareness.

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Since you can't be bothered to read and understand one statement of mine, let me clarify. I never said "YOU CANT PUT TOGETHER A VERY CAPABLE GEAR SET BLAH BLAH BLAH"

    I said it (DAILIES/REPUTATION..since you know that is what we have been talking about this whole damn time) is required to spend Valor Points.PERIOD.FACT.

    I didn't say it was required to get any gear in the game. I didn't say you couldn't raid without doing it. It's ok, I can see this thread has been bombarded by sheep. I don't really feel the need to respond in it anymore. Everyone I know (anectdotal, this is obvious) that has played the game for as long as I have think this is a load of crap. It's not about too much to do, it's not about gear, it's not about raids.

    Hey, if this system is good enough for you, so be it. I'm not trying to convince you that you shouldn't enjoy it. But if everyone can't even grasp how this is artificial gating, or Blizzard contradicting yourselves, be prepared to sink your money into a hole until the end of time. One day a light will click and you will realize how much money you wasted on an illusion.

    I will continue to enjoy the game for the actual good qualities it has. And I will also say I told you so, when they continue the already beginning trend of backpedaling on this bullshit daily issue until their subs remain strong. No one is going to quit because they give you more options, but people surely will quit for being funneled through the cow gates.

    I don't want to be a sheep, or a cow. Take this as a friendly bit of awareness.
    You really dont get it do you?

    You first make the claim that you pretty much force your raiders to do their dailies (which is terrible guild / raid leadership period.), then you say it is required for hardcore progression guilds.

    You contradict yourself all over these forums every time you post something.

    The FACT. Point. PERIOD. is that you do not have to grind dailies to be in a hardcore raiding guild, let alone to compete for world first achievements. (i highly doubt you and your guild are trying for world first anything)

    This "gating" process as you call it is meant to pace the casual players. It is viable raid quality rewards for people who are casual and cant spend as much time playing the game, and spending hours raiding. That is all. You have chosen to look at it as the "way to go" to get properly raid geared for heroic raid progression, which it is not. It is A WAY, it is not THE WAY.

    Please read Blizzards official blogs on these things before posting nonsense here.
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