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  1. #1

    Hunters scaling badly with gear?

    Hey,

    Judging from some sources:

    http://www.noxxic.com/wow/dps-rankings/realistic-dps

    http://www.noxxic.com/wow/dps-rankings/theoretical-dps

    hunters scale really bad with gear. On the other hand hybrid classes like feral, retri scale really awesome, which is not quite fair comparing to pure dps class.

    What do you think?
    Every time you say "I don't believe in fearies" one of they dies...

  2. #2
    Well, according to those charts, Hunters would be doing about the same or less dps than they already are. So I don't think they're a valid measure of our scaling.

  3. #3
    Simcraft has to be taken with a grain of salt. The only thing it shows is that on a perfect fight and a perfect fight with a margin of error, how well our class compares to the others. The main thing this proves (if accurately done) is that warlocks have more room for error on fights.

    The main thing that must be looked at is the amount of damage hunters do when there are multiple targets. And as it is right now, we are much lower. While rabid was nerfed, and hunters in the process the main thing that can happen is bring DKs down slightly 3-5% and then buff attack power overall for melee and ranged. I want them to remove damage from bite and give pets a dot so when they have to move, the pet is still dealing damage. Also, increase the amount of passive focus regen versus cobra shot.

  4. #4
    "Scaling" refers to the rate at which DPS increases with respect to Item Level. Neither of those charts show that, all they show is that we sim at the bottom in T14H gear.

  5. #5
    didn't feel like it, it actualy felt the other way compared to guildies dps from beginning of heroic through raids. Not that I have any number to back this up.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Bisso View Post
    didn't feel like it, it actualy felt the other way compared to guildies dps from beginning of heroic through raids. Not that I have any number to back this up.
    i agree, feels like my dps ramps up quite a lot the more gear i collect. much more then some other classes who were doing far better then me at the start.

  7. #7
    I think things have changed a lot for hunters in regards to gear this expansion. We use to be at the top of the charts at the beginning of each expansion with crap gear. And we would fall behind as we got gear as well as everyone else.

    But now..... every piece of gear I get I can FEEL the difference. Which I love.. its a nice change. Gear matters now for us.. not just our ranged weapon damage.

  8. #8
    Don't forget that we gain a lot from a weapon upgrade too. I gained at least a 4k DPS increase from the bow that drops from the last boss of MV.

  9. #9
    A broken watch is more accurate then simcraft. Never follow it in regards to anything.

  10. #10
    Idk...atm im normally top dps in my guild, or atleast tied with our rogue.

  11. #11
    Same thing happened at the launch of Cata. Talk about not learning from your mistakes. This is a game of numbers, so why not use Sims to predict the scaling. Do you have a better solution? Would you rather just guess?

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-13 at 07:32 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Blades2004 View Post
    Idk...atm im normally top dps in my guild, or atleast tied with our rogue.
    If you are top in your guild, is a possible that everyone else could be doing bad dps?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinzai View Post
    Well, according to those charts, Hunters would be doing about the same or less dps than they already are. So I don't think they're a valid measure of our scaling.
    top charts != sim damage

    sim consider the average, top logs show random lucky crits and encounter diversity (AoE, multidot)
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Destard View Post
    top charts != sim damage

    sim consider the average, top logs show random lucky crits and encounter diversity (AoE, multidot)
    Sims are not an accurate representation of what happens in game. Sims are something bad players use as a tool for QQ. Sims are useful for learning good rotations they are terrible for see real game representation of DPS output.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesis003 View Post
    Sims are not an accurate representation of what happens in game. Sims are something bad players use as a tool for QQ. Sims are useful for learning good rotations they are terrible for see real game representation of DPS output.
    Basically this.

    Sims are magical christmasland, where everyone is perfect and nothing goes wrong at all. Real gameplay doesn't work that way, pretty much ever.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Marxman View Post
    Basically this.

    Sims are magical christmasland, where everyone is perfect and nothing goes wrong at all. Real gameplay doesn't work that way, pretty much ever.
    Please understand that SIMS are static for every class. That means Max possible DPS on patchwork Style fight. If an Affliction Warlock DPS is 80k and a BM Hunters DPS is 50K on a patchwork fight, which would you choose? SIMS are not everything, but in a game of numbers and unpredictability, Hunters will clearly be way behind when it comes to scaling if changes are not made.

    "•Aimed Shot now deals 320% weapon damage (up from 280%), but the base damage component has been reduced by 65%. The damage that this ability does at level 90 should remain relatively unchanged."

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Kurves View Post
    Please understand that SIMS are static for every class. That means Max possible DPS on patchwork Style fight. If an Affliction Warlock DPS is 80k and a BM Hunters DPS is 50K on a patchwork fight, which would you choose? SIMS are not everything, but in a game of numbers and unpredictability, Hunters will clearly be way behind when it comes to scaling if changes are not made.

    "•Aimed Shot now deals 320% weapon damage (up from 280%), but the base damage component has been reduced by 65%. The damage that this ability does at level 90 should remain relatively unchanged."
    It's not an accurate measurement of Hunter's maximum dps though. BM Hunter's max dps on a patchwerk fight, without Hero/BL factored in, in that gear, is 110k.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Kurves View Post
    Please understand that SIMS are static for every class. That means Max possible DPS on patchwork Style fight. If an Affliction Warlock DPS is 80k and a BM Hunters DPS is 50K on a patchwork fight, which would you choose? SIMS are not everything, but in a game of numbers and unpredictability, Hunters will clearly be way behind when it comes to scaling if changes are not made.

    "•Aimed Shot now deals 320% weapon damage (up from 280%), but the base damage component has been reduced by 65%. The damage that this ability does at level 90 should remain relatively unchanged."
    see the issue you have is you think sims are correct. They are not. A broken watch is correct more often then a sim is. Sims ar good to see increases in different rotations or if gear is better they they are very very bad at tell what real damage output is. There are no "patchwork" fights anymore so basing DPS off that is ignorant to begin with.

    No good player uses a sim as to what their DPS is they actually do this thing call IN GAME TESTING. Its where they sit at a dummy and hit it for hours on end to find out what in reality works best. Sims are a tool not a guideline the sooner you realize that the sooner you will become a better player.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesis003 View Post
    see the issue you have is you think sims are correct. They are not. A broken watch is correct more often then a sim is. Sims ar good to see increases in different rotations or if gear is better they they are very very bad at tell what real damage output is. There are no "patchwork" fights anymore so basing DPS off that is ignorant to begin with.

    No good player uses a sim as to what their DPS is they actually do this thing call IN GAME TESTING. Its where they sit at a dummy and hit it for hours on end to find out what in reality works best. Sims are a tool not a guideline the sooner you realize that the sooner you will become a better player.
    "sit at a dummy and hit it for hours" = Patchwork style fight. I am constantly learning and not saying that I know everything, but to totally dismiss theory and SIMS is crazy.

    "No good player uses a sim". Don't even deserve a reply. DONE.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Kurves View Post
    If you are top in your guild, is a possible that everyone else could be doing bad dps?
    I'm topping meters in my guild as a Survival Hunter. From beginning to end, burst and everything. Well, sometimes I start off lower around 4-6th area. Going against some Demo Locks, Ret Pallies, Fury Warriors, Frost Mages, Frost DKs, BM Hunters, Ass/Combat Rogues... I think my guild is kinda lacking in the DPS department.
    Omnipotent WCL || Omnipotent Site - Support our streams! || Worst Btag Ever: Slenderman#1355 || Temporarily retired from raiding. Soon™.

  20. #20
    Please tell me of a guild that has 15 "perfect" dpsers, with no flaws and extremely good players that can ALL pull a perfect simcraft dps math rotation, and its not one of those guilds that are top 100 in the entire freaking world.

    I'm not in those top 100 guilds in the world because, well, this is just a game, so basicaly why should i realy care about simcraft theoretical dps scores?

    For less than 1% of the world players, simcraft is bul*hit and has no Real world importance, because outside of the forum wonderland: Gear>Skill>Simcraft. Taking away the skill out of the equation is just for those <1% of the guilds in the world, so why realy lose so much energy and time pretending you are realy worried about that?

    I play survival, i like it, i'm competing for top 5 in my guild. On some fights i go low, on some fights i go up. I don't freaking care if the top 100 of the world has no SV hunters, i'm not competing with the world i'm playing in a game for fun and competing with human beings and not simcraft math or people who i don't even know.

    I realy can't understand the purpose of this "simcraft QQ". Besides a few classes like ret paladins or elemental shamans who have insane burst, or classes like rogues and mages that have insane cleave, or affliction locks who have insane multidotting, i havent been "ashamed" by anyone, and thats just fine to have diversity in classes as most boss encounters are diferent and each one will play out better for a class or another.

    On most overall charts (not individual bosses alone), i rank on top 5 on my 25men raids, that is awesome.



    What i DON'T like, is to see tanks rank on top aswell, but that's an entirely diferent story ...

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