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  1. #1021
    To be sure we'll need to see the order that the lines are actually spoken in game.

    If he complains about human bigotry and THEN gives the 'old alliances' line in game, I'd say he's either speaking of some mystery group, or far more likely thinking of breaking off from the Horde as Vol'jin once did.

    If he sais the 'old alliances' line, THEN the Dalaran incident happens, then he goes on his bigotry spiel, then I'd say he was referring to the Alliance but Jaina's actions have made that impossible. I think this fits well with his line that she's 'pushing them closer to Hellscream's Horde." My personal theory is that he was considering switching sides because of Garrosh but Jaina has forced his hand and cut off that possibility. But we won't know for sure until we play the quests or scenario these lines are spoken in.

  2. #1022
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dybia View Post
    Hah! You think Garrosh wouldn't wipe out scores of his own horde to kill the alliance leaders gathered at Theramore?
    It wasent just a few troops.
    It was a large portion of the Horde army, along with all the Horde leaders and Garrosh himself.
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  3. #1023
    Quote Originally Posted by Dybia View Post
    Hah! You think Garrosh wouldn't wipe out scores of his own horde to kill the alliance leaders gathered at Theramore? You think a little too highly of the bastard. His new little pet blackrock orc killed two high ranking commanders of the blood elf and forsaken forces because he thought they might have bad mouthed Garrosh behind his back. And everyone that was with them in the inn in Razor Hill.
    Maybe but I don't think he'd be there himself if he expected the blast to reach them. I mean it's one thing to scrifice troops for a victory, it's another to just say 'meh, I'll just let them die instead of falling back another few hundred feet for safety."

    I really doubt that Songweaver's presence made the bomb work. For one thing he was caught before the battle ended. All he did was stop reinforcing a gate so the Horde could break in, as I remember he wasn't even going after the other mages. There is no indication that his presence was neccisary or even good for the mana bomb plan. Infact I don't think anyone expected the Kirin Tor to come. As I recall Aethas made the deciding vote in favor of it, meaning that there were some in the Kirin Tor that were against it. Jaina even knew going in asking that getting their aid was a long shot. Then Songweaver just got lucky, as Aethas happened to reccomend him and Rhonin backed him up.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-15 at 07:02 PM ----------

    On a side note it would have been hillarious if Garrosh had underestimated the bomb and gotten himself, Baine, Malkorok, Vol'jin, and most of his army there killed in the blast.

  4. #1024
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florena View Post
    On a side note it would have been hillarious if Garrosh had underestimated the bomb and gotten himself, Baine, Malkorok, Vol'jin, and most of his army there killed in the blast.
    Is this more or less embarrassing than almost dying against a bunch of quilboar?

  5. #1025
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaelsino View Post
    Is this more or less embarrassing than almost dying against a bunch of quilboar?
    I'd say more so as it would have been at his own hands, though yeah the quillboar thing did a number on his rep I think.

  6. #1026
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    Ok time to clear up a few more statements that have been made with no evidence.

    1. Jaina killed people while she was locking down Dalaran.

    All that we can hear so far says she caught them while trying to sneak past her traps, at no point does it say she killed or even harmed anyone there.

    2. Jaina broke neutrality first.

    This is possible however, the cases being made for this have no current evidence either. Stopping an attack does not in and of itself constitute breaking neutrality, the location doesn't matter. Causing harm would be, preventing it does not.

    What intrigues me at the moment however, is something in Lor'Themar's audio. Hes talking about something, that could be the bell. "and get this damn thing out of my sight, Hellscream bought his treasure with the blood of my people." If it is the bell, which seems most likely to me, how does he know about it and seemingly have the thing, but not have any idea whats going on in Dalaran.

    Assuming it is the bell and they really are clueless as to why anything happened in Dalaran then how would they have gotten into Darnassus. My first two guesses would be either, there is another loyal Hellscream person closer to Lor'Themar(perhaps Rommath) that didn't share some details, or they had some alternate way into Darnassus, and the Sunreavers were completely out of the loop.
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  7. #1027
    Like i said, Trade Prince Gallywix for Warchief. He just buys his way.

    Am i the only one who thinks High Tinker Mekkatorque and Trade Prince Gallywix don't get any love? Do they even exsist?

  8. #1028
    Gelbin needs attention. Gallywix needs a bullet to the face like the goblin players were gonna give him before Thrall stopped you.

  9. #1029
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    Pretty sure the goblins still want to blast Trade Prince Gallywix all the way to Outland without portals cause he sold them out.
    "Earth can be shaped molded... you cannot you are useless" - Ascendant Lord Obsidius

  10. #1030
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    Lore is one thing. But I find ridiculous or plain stupid to wish some stuff to happen just to piss off horde "PLAYERS"!!

    We are all players of the same game. But players dont wrote the lore (and for sure a minority even read it...)

    Those here who wish the NR dalaran to be ally only to see horde toon in the lvling process taking their quest at a random tent in chrystalsong forest (or similar shit we can read here) need to take a break from the game. Because hey, it is what it is kids: a game!! Dumb to take it so seriously...

    Horde players and ally players have the same goal in this game. Having fun Killing bosses, win battleground etc... It's all about killings and war here!! Lore is there to fill the "RPG" part of mmorpg and give us pretext we dont really need to play the game and kill toons from the opposite faction. Dont give a fuck about who is wrong or who is the goods and the bads. At the end of the day the result will be the same: war and killings whatever blizzard decide to put in the lore...
    Last edited by Groh; 2012-10-16 at 10:08 AM.

  11. #1031
    Maybe Dalaran will be moved to it's old location? Could be an explanation for the troll teleport/portal implemented in 5.0.4 [Ancient Teleportalaran] - Teleports the caster to Dalaran.

  12. #1032
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    That is a bit harsh, but true the horde as it is right now shouldn't get their hands on those artifacts, but it does not change the fact that Jaina herself broke neutrality first.
    I hade it, fanboy in so many degree, HOW did jaina breake the neutrality? When the horde stole the forkuseing isle from dalaran? When they used that to nuke her city and by that killing Rhonning the leader of Dalaran? her friend. Or was it when the horde used the neutrality of the sunreabers from the horde to teleport to darnassus?
    Tell ME WHERE did SHE break the neutrality ? You go saying BS about how she did it, BUT where, really? Fact is horde stole the forkusing isle from dalaran, they nuked her city and killed the leader of dalaran with it(because of the mana bomb) rhonning was there and he died. The Horde used the neutrality of dalaran to sneak soilders into darnassus. it was first after that she started to attack the sunreavers
    (i am 20 and dyslexic so yes i suck at spelling)

  13. #1033
    Quote Originally Posted by Groh View Post
    Lore is one thing. But I find ridiculous or plain stupid to wish some stuff to happen just to piss off horde "PLAYERS"!!

    We are all players of the same game. But players dont wrote the lore (and for sure a minority even read it...)

    Those here who wish the NR dalaran to be ally only to see horde toon in the lvling process taking their quest at a random tent in chrystalsong forest (or similar shit we can read here) need to take a break from the game. Because hey, it is what it is kids: a game!! Dumb to take it so seriously...

    Horde players and ally players have the same goal in this game. Having fun Killing bosses, win battleground etc... It's all about killings and war here!! Lore is there to fill the "RPG" part of mmorpg and give us pretext we dont really need to play the game and kill toons from the opposite faction. Dont give a fuck about who is wrong or who is the goods and the bads. At the end of the day the result will be the same: war and killings whatever blizzard decide to put in the lore...
    Don't worry, Dalaran will remain where it is in Northrend, and Ally and Horde players alike will continue to use it as a main hub there. Remember : Northrend lives in the past. That Dalaran will still have Rhonin as its leader. At least it should.

  14. #1034
    Quote Originally Posted by ragemv View Post
    I hade it, fanboy in so many degree, HOW did jaina breake the neutrality? When the horde stole the forkuseing isle from dalaran? When they used that to nuke her city and by that killing Rhonning the leader of Dalaran? her friend. Or was it when the horde used the neutrality of the sunreabers from the horde to teleport to darnassus?
    Tell ME WHERE did SHE break the neutrality ? You go saying BS about how she did it, BUT where, really? Fact is horde stole the forkusing isle from dalaran, they nuked her city and killed the leader of dalaran with it(because of the mana bomb) rhonning was there and he died. The Horde used the neutrality of dalaran to sneak soilders into darnassus. it was first after that she started to attack the sunreavers
    Again, once part of Kirin Tor, NEUTRAL FACTION, she started to protect alliance property. Thats violation of neutrality. Please, you are dyslexic, not illogical.

  15. #1035
    Pandaren Monk Solzan Nemesis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnstoppableErasor View Post
    Pretty sure the goblins still want to blast Trade Prince Gallywix all the way to Outland without portals cause he sold them out.
    I know I do.

  16. #1036
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Again, once part of Kirin Tor, NEUTRAL FACTION, she started to protect alliance property. Thats violation of neutrality. Please, you are dyslexic, not illogical.
    the Kirin Tor was a neutral faction only when supporting the war against the Lich King.
    They were part of the Alliance before that.
    English is not my first language, feel free to point out any mistake so i can keep learning.
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  17. #1037
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Again, once part of Kirin Tor, NEUTRAL FACTION, she started to protect alliance property. Thats violation of neutrality. Please, you are dyslexic, not illogical.
    Well she is the leader of kirin tor, she is the kirin tor. If she breaks neutrality then the kirin tor are breaking neutrality. So there's no violation, simply a faction starting to pick a side of the fight.
    Considering recent events its natural that it occurs.

    What's not very natural is Jaina and the kirin Tor going all racist and attacking a race because of the actions of a few. But racism seems natural with dalaran (*cough* Garithros*cough*). Sylvanas sister also has some serious issues with horde races (orcs, blood elfs, forsaken).
    Quote Originally Posted by Oradraffe View Post
    MoP is not happening i can promise that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tric619 View Post
    Been playing since week 1 and still believe Mop is the next expac? >.>
    Quote Originally Posted by Feyrzhuk View Post
    MoP will never be a WoW expansion. Feel free to flame and ridicule me should I be proven wrong.

  18. #1038
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Again, once part of Kirin Tor, NEUTRAL FACTION, she started to protect alliance property. Thats violation of neutrality. Please, you are dyslexic, not illogical.
    I actually buckled down and made an account simply to put out some of the nonsense. At least from this post.

    Jaina's 'neutrality' with the Kirin Tor was strictly limited when she had taken the reigns over Theramore. In fact, her staunch support of the Alliance greatly outweighed her 'stance' with the Kirin Tor, including during Wrath of the Lich King. Her own self-imposed neutrality is what made her continue to support Alliance and Horde relations, not her previous tutoring within the Kirin Tor.

    While Jaina very much, during Wrath of the Lich King, was a member of the Kirin Tor as she was the Alliance, she was still known as the ruler of Theramore, first and foremost. Which is exactly why during Wrath of the Lich King, she lead Alliance operations, NOT Kirin Tor operations. The fact she was a neutral leader of the Alliance was why she was respected by the Horde, and the Kirin Tor.

    None of her operations ever conflicted with the Horde.

    Come Cataclysm, and Theramore being more of an actual supply base and less of a neutral nation. This? Still has nothing to do with Jaina of the Kirin Tor. After Wrath of the Lich King, Jaina returned to Theramore full time and continued operations as normal. The escalation between the Horde and the Alliance had nothing to do with Jaina of the Kirin Tor. This is key here.

    Speculation is all that is given if Theramore was behind any of the major operations on Kalimdor (as some will claim Camp Taurajo was purely a Theramore job), unless I'm missing key text here, that's only speculation. And irrelevant, ultimately, to the point I am responding to.

    Jaina's involvement in the defense of Theramore was in defense of her home, her people, and of the Alliance. This? Had absolutely no bearing on the Kirin Tor. If ANY individual was guilty of breaking neutrality agreements of the Kirin Tor, it was Rhonin when he went to assist in the defense of Theramore. Not Jaina. And even then, Rhonin was there purely to defend and evacuate. Again, unless I'm missing key text, I do not believe Rhonin ever went on the counter-offensive, and was mostly there to try to prevent devastation and loss of life.

    Since Theramore, Jaina has been struggling to remain neutral. The fact that Dalaran was used by the Horde to attack an Alliance city was the Horde breaking the neutrality agreement. Again, not Jaina. One could argue Jaina's attempt to drown out Orgrimmar was a breech of neutrality, but that was still Jaina Proudmoore of the Alliance, not Jaina Proudmoore, Member and Head of the Council of Six of the Kirin Tor.

    Any claims of Jaina breaking neutrality for purging the Sunreavers for their (double) involvement in two Pro-Horde, Anti-Alliance movements? Be they deep or just a sect of betrayers? Is enough for ANY real or fantasy organization to cut ties then. If the Sunreavers were truly as innocent as they claimed, they should have let themselves be locked up until a proper investigation was put forth. Jaina is not a monster, despite as much as some people claim. Her terms were clear. But if the Sunreavers were adamant to have their cake and eat it too, they needed to be thrown out. Aethas couldn't control his own people (Unless he WAS in control of the deception), and that makes for not only a poor leader, but a poor member of the Six.

    End of the Day: The Horde broke the neutrality agreement first and foremost by using Dalaran as a means of unleashing attacks on Alliance cities. Unless you argue Rhonin trying to evacuate and prevent the utter DEVASTATION of Theramore was breaking the neutrality agreement first, but that's a stretch at best. More like helping his wife, who is a staunch Alliance member.

    So, again, unless I am missing something? I'm getting this odd feeling that you aren't illogical, but ignorant.

    Thank you for my first post.

  19. #1039
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Again, once part of Kirin Tor, NEUTRAL FACTION, she started to protect alliance property. Thats violation of neutrality. Please, you are dyslexic, not illogical.

    So does that mean that the Earthen Ring backs the Horde since Thrall defended Org, Horde property, while being the leader of the Earthen Ring?
    STRESS
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    desire to choke the living shit out of
    some jerk who desperately needs it

  20. #1040
    Quote Originally Posted by RyanEX View Post
    So does that mean that the Earthen Ring backs the Horde since Thrall defended Org, Horde property, while being the leader of the Earthen Ring?
    By his logic, yes. But then Thrall decided Garrosh is a butthead, too.

    Thusly: The Earthen Ring broke neutrality by favoring the Horde, then broke neutrality by becoming Anti-Horde.

    We must purge this fickle organization.

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