Jaina and Dalaran in 5.1 [Heavy lore spoilers]

[reepa]

so... the horde decimates theramore and NOW the alliance gets dalaran the kirin tor AND jaina.... now THATS just unfair.... we better be getting thrall back thats all i can say.

[Florena]

My guess is the line about 'old alliances' might be before the news of Jaina's actions in Dalaran reaches him, and then he goes on his angry rant about the bigotry of the Alliance.

[Immitis]

I notice a lot of people are saying things about a third faction.

I believe it's actually going to be the opposite. So far, from what we know, they are really building up the next expansion to be the Legion expansion.

Anduin is supposed to lead both the Horde and Alliance against the Burning Legion.

In this expansion, we're going to kill or placate both Garrosh and Varian. The two main evils. The two that are the ones fueling ALL conflict between the Alliance and Horde.

With both of the leaders defeated, perhaps a peace can be garnered between the two factions. I predict that all barriers will be lifted soon enough between the two, and we will become one Coalition against the biggest threat we have ever faced. No more barriers between the factions. Free to choose your faction at will. Free to talk, to group, etc. As for the mechanics, we can keep PvP as it is. Your chosen faction will still determine who/what you can and cannot kill, but other than that, we will all be merged as one.

your wrong about varian. varian hasnt been anywhere near the level of garrosh varian has even helped the horde a couple times and has offered to give thral lumber from elwyn to stop fighting between the night elves and orcs.

varian just isnt afraid to fight when someone steps to the plate

[Florena]

so... the horde decimates theramore and NOW the alliance gets dalaran the kirin tor AND jaina.... now THATS just unfair.... we better be getting thrall back thats all i can say.

....all of those things were Alliance to begin with. They're just going back home, and we still don't have Theramore back. As for Thrall, we'll have to wait and see. Blizz said that not all of 5.1's content will be on the ptr right away.

What i'm really curious about is the Vol'jin scenario. Given that it seems to be set in the Stairs zone, maybe it'll tie into Wrathion's storyline and be there for both factions?

[Resentful]

your wrong about varian. varian hasnt been anywhere near the level of garrosh varian has even helped the horde a couple times and has offered to give thral lumber from elwyn to stop fighting between the night elves and orcs.

varian just isnt afraid to fight when someone steps to the plate

Correct Garrosh is the main root of the whole ''conflict here'' Hell Thrall's decision for Garrosh to be Warchief is possibly one of the most terrible decisions hes ever made however he obviously couldn't commit two things at once.

[Deleted]

So the Alliance get the Varian High King questline, Dalaran and later they get Turalyon and Alleria back?

Meanwhile the Horde likely loses Garrosh and probably some others in the Orgrimmar raid.

Oh well, as long as the Alliance fanboys are pleased. That's most important after all.

[fps90]

your wrong about varian. varian hasnt been anywhere near the level of garrosh varian has even helped the horde a couple times and has offered to give thral lumber from elwyn to stop fighting between the night elves and orcs.

varian just isnt afraid to fight when someone steps to the plate

If you think that Varian isn't just as bloodthirsty as Garrosh, you're very blind.

Hell, take a look at the Ulduar trailer.

[Dreknar20]

Who would have thought...
Jaina becoming a tyrant..

[Matchu]

So the Alliance get the Varian High King questline, Dalaran and later they get Turalyon and Alleria back?

Meanwhile the Horde likely loses Garrosh and probably some others in the Orgrimmar raid.

Horde are getting a Thrall questline to mirror Varian's. I'd be surprised if Turalyon and Alleria aren't neutral against the Burning Legion.

[Dreknar20]

varian has even helped the horde a couple times and has offered to give thral lumber from elwyn to stop fighting between the night elves and orcs.

And thats a super noble deed?
He was not giving stuff to the Horde, he was trading with the Horde, which means the Alliance make bling bling.

[Resentful]

And thats a super noble deed?
He was not giving stuff to the Horde, he was trading with the Horde, which means the Alliance make bling bling.

Errr compared to bloodshed, What would you prefer? An all out war which involves many casualties for both ally and horde or some simple negosations with trading and such so both sides don't suffer?

Think about it

I am a Horde fanatic a very VERY complete one however don't get all thinking ally don't have any ''Good'' deeds in them

[Immitis]

If you think that Varian isn't just as bloodthirsty as Garrosh, you're very blind.

Hell, take a look at the Ulduar trailer.

when has garrosh ever offered to give resources to the alliance to stop fighting? when has garrosh ever been friends with a human?

also where is the source of garroshes anger? he has none other then stories of the internment camps

what does varian have to be angry about? he was enslaved as a gladiator BY THE HORDE, as a child he saw an orc his father was friends with RIP OUT HIS HEART AND THEN BURN HIS CITY TO THE GROUND, one of his father figures was killed by the horde in battle, his best friend grew up to be the lich king and killed his other father figure and then continued to commit genocide upon his people, his wife was killed by the workers who rebuilt stormwind DESPITE THE FACT THAT SHE WAS THE ONE WHO WANTED TO MAKE SURE THEY GOT PAID. and now his only son the only thing he cares about in the entire world is about to be killed by garrosh, or atleast he thinks he was killed.

so tell me even with all that varian is willing to have diplomatic meetings, offer resources, ally with and even lead horde forces like in stormrage, and not go all out lo'gosh when he sees a greenskin. wheras garrosh is going "ME WANT ALL OF AZEROTH ME CRUSH PINK SKINNED HUMANS"

so please tell me how varian is anything like garrosh

[Florena]

If you think that Varian isn't just as bloodthirsty as Garrosh, you're very blind.

Hell, take a look at the Ulduar trailer.

And you take a look at all the material that's come out developing his character SINCE Ulduar/ToC.

As with Theramore though I'm going to withhold judgement here until I actually play through these events and see them in context.

[fps90]

so please tell me how varian is anything like garrosh

You just did it for me. You described the very sources of Varian's hatred for the Horde. Yes, he is mad because of what the Horde has done to him and his family and friends, but that's just it: He's MAD. He's bloodthirsty. He wants to see every member of the Horde dead just as much as Garrosh would like to see the Alliance dead.

You're just sitting here defending your king, I'm trying to tell you why BOTH of them are bad leaders.

[Imhotep]

so... the horde decimates theramore and NOW the alliance gets dalaran the kirin tor AND jaina.... now THATS just unfair.... we better be getting thrall back thats all i can say.

war isnt fair
it's also a game
get over it

[Florena]

You just did it for me. You described the very sources of Varian's hatred for the Horde. Yes, he is mad because of what the Horde has done to him and his family and friends, but that's just it: He's MAD. He's bloodthirsty. He wants to see every member of the Horde dead just as much as Garrosh would like to see the Alliance dead.

You're just sitting here defending your king, I'm trying to tell you why BOTH of them are bad leaders.

Somebody didn't read Tides of War! His attitude there certainly didn't seem in line with Jaina's desire to wipe out the orcs. He's angry, yes, but in Wolfheart and his own short story he's made strides in bringing his anger under control. Though the death of Anduin may undo that.

[Mawnix]

Oh my God.

I never thought I'd say this, but..

LORTHEMAR'S A FUCKING BADASS!

[Azaael]

Listening to Lor'themar's speech(and yay, he's going to be badass like he used to be), I'm really getting the impression that by the time, oh, 5.3 or so rolls around, it's no longer going to be Alliance vs. Horde, but Everyone vs. Garrosh. Lor'themar saying 'Old Alliances'...yeah. Methinks the Old Alliances might well be him trying to make up with the old people(after all, the High Elves were Blood Elves before they were betrayed in the first place.)

I don't like the fact that the Kirin Tor is no longer neutral, though. I like neutral groups to lend some sanity to the warring maniacs. I also find it interesting that Jaina ended up no better than the people who imprisoned the orcs in the internment camps; actually it's a bit worse since at least with the internment camps, those orcs WERE juiced up at one point and it was kinda understandable(though not totally right,) where there was no real proof that the Sunreavers gave a shit about Garrosh(even that other guy wasn't an actual Sunreaver). I hope Jaina doesn't turn into some crazed cardboard warmonger; I expect more of her after she managed to overcome her bad stuff earlier than your typical warmonger this game puts out. I wonder what the hell happens in Darnassus that could make her flip her shit WORSE than *her own place* getting taken out.

By the sound, though, Lor'themar settles down a bit at the end of it, and he begins blaming Garrosh more(as he really should.) I'm glad to see the Blood Elves starting to turn against him. The Trolls were always not his friend, the Forsaken don't like him(though they don't much like anyone-except how they got along with Thrall), the Tauren aren't fond of him.

Bah, I just can't wait to kill Garrosh. He's the one making the Horde look terrible.

Hmm, I'm wondering what Garrosh is going to do to get the Goblins to turn against him. Use them as suicide bombers? I can see him using Orc children as something horrible to get the rest of the Orcs to finally turn on him.

Also might be fun to speculate how it'll go. 5.1 seems to be the start of more people going against Garrosh(on both sides). 5.2 may well see some big internal Horde stuff of factions actually calling to break away from Garrosh, period(watch Garrosh end up with a Mogu/Sha army and claiming not to need people like the Trolls and stuff anymore.) Eventually this'll turn into a potential *mass* uniting against Garrosh once the Alliance realizes that it's not the Horde that's bad, but Garrosh and the people who follow his way.

[Trassk]

war isnt fair
it's also a game
get over it

don't add troll responses to peoples posts unless you have something constructive to add to it.

[Immitis]

You just did it for me. You described the very sources of Varian's hatred for the Horde. Yes, he is mad because of what the Horde has done to him and his family and friends, but that's just it: He's MAD. He's bloodthirsty. He wants to see every member of the Horde dead just as much as Garrosh would like to see the Alliance dead.

You're just sitting here defending your king, I'm trying to tell you why BOTH of them are bad leaders.

did you not read the part where i said that despite his anger hes not only worked with the horde but also helped and lead them in battle?