Jaina and Dalaran in 5.1 [Heavy lore spoilers]

[Deleted]

Because of this, Lor'themar Theron lost most of his sorcerers to the slaughter at dalaran

[Frontenac]

Jaina already broke that neutrality when she secured Darnassus from teleportation access. The "your kind" comment can be shown as racist. Sunreavers. Blood elves. She locked up EVERY member guilty or not because they were blood elves.

Sequence of events made simple : Sunreavers teleports hordies in Darnassus -> Break neutrality -> Jaina finds out -> Helps Darnassus -> Declares war on the Horde -> Orders the Horde-aligned Sunreavers out -> Sunreavers refuses -> Sunreavers imprisoned.

Also, she did not lock every Sunreavers because they were blood elves. She locked those blood elves because they were Sunreavers.

[Dyroc]

The Sunreavers had to petition the Kirin Tor to allow them entry. Rhonin allowed them entry. Now Rhonin's gone. To say that the Sunreavers are the only one to accept them is not a stretch by any means. In-fact according to ToW, they were allowed entry but only officially readmitted until after the Northrend War. Also, being condescending doesn't make you look intelligent. It makes you look rude.

I was specifically referring to your constant assertion that that she was after blood elves and not the Sunreavers, which there is no evidence for. You continue to make the same statement over and over again, regardless of that fact that you have no evidence for any claim your making. At no point did you say, I think this might be her motivation, or i wonder if this is what she was doing, you stated as fact that which you do not know, which is incredibly dishonest. My last statement was a shot in the dark hoping you would realize this, but apparently you don't care to acknowledge the fact.

[Dreknar20]

It was also an act of war against Dalaran. Dalaran declared neutrality.

If Jaina is so neutral, then why is she helping the Alliance military....

[McCulloch]

Sequence of events made simple : Sunreavers teleports hordies in Darnassus -> Break neutrality -> Jaina finds out -> Helps Darnassus -> Declares war on the Horde -> Orders the Horde-aligned Sunreavers out -> Sunreavers refuses -> Sunreavers imprisoned.

Also, she did not lock every Sunreavers because they were blood elves. She locked those blood elves because they were Sunreavers.

No. She discovers Darnassus was broken through and talks about how she took every measure of security and the only way to break through it would be from Dalaran. Then she makes the logical conclusion that it was Sunreaver members.

[dethlyhallows]

You guys are mental. Please tell me you are at least the average Joe.
The woman had her city NUCLEAR BOMBED. That means, NO fighting chance in hell. She learns that the people who brought such bomb were those who she was trying to make peace with, people who inhabitated a NEUTRAL city. Habitating a NEUTRAL city = Not being for or agaisnt a faction, being away from anything involved either or.
She COULD have killed MANY citizens of the Horde who were in Orgrimmar, but she was able to stop. That is HUGE. Someone kills the people you care for, giving them no fighting chance (think of rape) and you are able to walk away from the case, that is HUGE. Mega points for her.
Dalaran is a city that looks after artifacts and studies them.
Jaina (SSSPOOOIIILLLEEERRRSSS- SPOILERS)
....
....
....
Jaina is helping Darnassus secure the bell because she has doubts of the inhabitants of Dalaran (She should) and keeps it with Tyrande (Alliance has given NO reason to NOT have her trust)
Horde infiltrate Darnassus through help from within Dalaran.
Jaina gave another chance, and a very lucky one, very very lucky one, and they just threw out the window. If the Belves cares about Dalaran, they would have done the impossible to repair the Alliance. If they truely gave a big dump, they would've done something about it.
Jaina did the right thing throwing them out as seeing the Horde is using Dalaran to target the alliance, and the alliance is not doing that.
Horde is being VERY unfair in the war because they are using anything possible to have advantage while the alliance fights head on. That's why I hate this "Horde" such schemers looking for any UNFAIR and UNJUSTIFYABLE advantage.
Lor'themar is a very weak leader. He didn't care when Horde stole one of the artifacts from Dalaran. But when The Belves in Dalaran use the city a second time, and are imprisioned for being traitors (yes imprisioned, they didn't have to fight) he thinks it's not a justifiable cause?
Please. Alliance gets big hits but their not "Oh my god why is this happening?" They know what's happening and they'll deal with it with the best diplomatic way, avoiding any conflict ESPECIALLY with a NEUTRAL city. While Horde is just whiny as hell and try to get everything their way. Such savages.
/spit If Anduin dies you all will PAYY!!!

[Dyroc]

Because the hordes acts were a violation of Dalaran's neutrality, which is an act of war. During war you seek out allies against your enemy, especially if your going to need the help to accomplish your goal.

[McCulloch]

I was specifically referring to your constant assertion that that she was after blood elves and not the Sunreavers, which there is no evidence for. You continue to make the same statement over and over again, regardless of that fact that you have no evidence for any claim your making. At no point did you say, I think this might be her motivation, or i wonder if this is what she was doing, you stated as fact that which you do not know, which is incredibly dishonest. My last statement was a shot in the dark hoping you would realize this, but apparently you don't care to acknowledge the fact.

Because it's so far off to consider racism as a likely possibility for imprisoning all Sunreavers who are all blood elves coupled with the "your kind" quote.

[Dreknar20]

Because the hordes acts were a violation of Dalaran's neutrality, which is an act of war. During war you seek out allies against your enemy, especially if your going to need the help to accomplish your goal.

Dalaran, and especially Jaina, is far from neutral in this war

[McCulloch]

Because the hordes acts were a violation of Dalaran's neutrality, which is an act of war. During war you seek out allies against your enemy, especially if your going to need the help to accomplish your goal.

Jaina broke Dalaran's neutrality first. I don't know how many times I need to say it. She secured Darnassus to keep a powerful artifact for the Alliance. If the Horde leveled the playing field so be it.

[dethlyhallows]

Jaina broke Dalaran's neutrality first. I don't know how many times I need to say it. She secured Darnassus to keep a powerful artifact for the Alliance. If the Horde leveled the playing field so be it.

UMMMM... THE DAMN SUNREAVERS USED A POWERFUL ARTIFACT TO DESTROY A CITY! WHY SHOULD SHE TRUST THEM FURTHER THAN PROVIDE THEM A TEMPORARY STAY SOTHAT THEIR AT LEAST NOT HOSTILE? Alliance has given NOOOOOO intentions of using any artifact. Instead Horde GO OUT OF THEIR WAY TO GET IT.

[Dyroc]

Because it's so far off to consider racism as a likely possibility for imprisoning all Sunreavers who are all blood elves coupled with the "your kind" quote.

Except you didn't say consider if... you said she did this because. Your other problem, is your kind doesn't refer to anything specific, and all the other statements that sounds accusatory, ended with her calling them out on being Sunreavers, never once did she call them blood elves, or in anyway refer to their race. All specific statements point towards the faction, and you try to claim the one nonspecific statement is must be a statement of race, you have a preconceived notion, that you are claiming as fact with zero evidence.

[Frontenac]

Because it's so far off to consider racism as a likely possibility for imprisoning all Sunreavers who are all blood elves coupled with the "your kind" quote.

Quote Jaina saying something against blood elves because they are blood elves.

Oh I give up! This discussion is going in circles. It's like a scratched record.

[McCulloch]

Except you didn't say consider if... you said she did this because. Your other problem, is your kind doesn't refer to anything specific, and all the other statements that sounds accusatory, ended with her calling them out on being Sunreavers, never once did she call them blood elves, or in anyway refer to their race. All specific statements point towards the faction, and you try to claim the one nonspecific statement is must be a statement of race, you have a preconceived notion, that you are claiming as fact with zero evidence.

Then I apologize for not being more specific and calling it a consideration. I feel saying "your kind" is pretty specific. Especially under the circumstances of them being the minority and all ready under the Six's watchful eye.

[Sal the Shieldhog]

BLOOD ELVES! WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Words cannot adequately describe how elated I am right now ^_____^

[McCulloch]

UMMMM... THE DAMN SUNREAVERS USED A POWERFUL ARTIFACT TO DESTROY A CITY! WHY SHOULD SHE TRUST THEM FURTHER THAN PROVIDE THEM A TEMPORARY STAY SOTHAT THEIR AT LEAST NOT HOSTILE? Alliance has given NOOOOOO intentions of using any artifact. Instead Horde GO OUT OF THEIR WAY TO GET IT.

If she wants to maintain a rule of neutrality she better follow it.

[Dreknar20]

Words cannot adequately describe how elated I am right now ^_____^

They were just making sure their hair-styles were just right before making an apperance.

[Sal the Shieldhog]

You guys are mental. Please tell me you are at least the average Joe.
The woman had her city NUCLEAR BOMBED. That means, NO fighting chance in hell. She learns that the people who brought such bomb were those who she was trying to make peace with, people who inhabitated a NEUTRAL city. Habitating a NEUTRAL city = Not being for or agaisnt a faction, being away from anything involved either or.
She COULD have killed MANY citizens of the Horde who were in Orgrimmar, but she was able to stop. That is HUGE. Someone kills the people you care for, giving them no fighting chance (think of rape) and you are able to walk away from the case, that is HUGE. Mega points for her.
Dalaran is a city that looks after artifacts and studies them.
Jaina (SSSPOOOIIILLLEEERRRSSS- SPOILERS)
....
....
....
Jaina is helping Darnassus secure the bell because she has doubts of the inhabitants of Dalaran (She should) and keeps it with Tyrande (Alliance has given NO reason to NOT have her trust)
Horde infiltrate Darnassus through help from within Dalaran.
Jaina gave another chance, and a very lucky one, very very lucky one, and they just threw out the window. If the Belves cares about Dalaran, they would have done the impossible to repair the Alliance. If they truely gave a big dump, they would've done something about it.
Jaina did the right thing throwing them out as seeing the Horde is using Dalaran to target the alliance, and the alliance is not doing that.
Horde is being VERY unfair in the war because they are using anything possible to have advantage while the alliance fights head on. That's why I hate this "Horde" such schemers looking for any UNFAIR and UNJUSTIFYABLE advantage.
Lor'themar is a very weak leader. He didn't care when Horde stole one of the artifacts from Dalaran. But when The Belves in Dalaran use the city a second time, and are imprisioned for being traitors (yes imprisioned, they didn't have to fight) he thinks it's not a justifiable cause?
Please. Alliance gets big hits but their not "Oh my god why is this happening?" They know what's happening and they'll deal with it with the best diplomatic way, avoiding any conflict ESPECIALLY with a NEUTRAL city. While Horde is just whiny as hell and try to get everything their way. Such savages.
/spit If Anduin dies you all will PAYY!!!

He likely didn't know about Garrosh's spies within the Sunreavers. That's why Lor'themar is pissed; Because of the actions of the few, the whole are being unjustly punished. Hell, with all her magic, Jaian could probably cast a spell to see if Aethas is speaking the truth (about having no clue what happened) instead of just locking him up (In her defense though, probably not right in the head after Theramore).

Not very many people knew about Garrosh's plans to use Dalaran's artifacts. It's very unlikely Lor'themar (or Rommath or Aethas) had anything to do with either the Mana Bomb or the Dalaran-Darnassus fiasco.

[Dreknar20]

If she wants to maintain a rule of neutrality she better follow it.

its kinda like America during WW2, while they were technically "neutral" they still actively supported the UK and even harrassed and attacked German forces

[Dyroc]

Jaina broke Dalaran's neutrality first. I don't know how many times I need to say it. She secured Darnassus to keep a powerful artifact for the Alliance. If the Horde leveled the playing field so be it.

You seem to have a problem with time. You see the attack occured before the lockdown, you don't go into lock down if nothing is going wrong. So she would not have violated anything first. Secondly if the lockdown occured to prevent the theft of an artifact she was there to study, that wouldn't necessarily be a violation either, depending on the circumstances.