Jaina and Dalaran in 5.1 [Heavy lore spoilers]

[Immitis]

Oh my god! Because no allied nation ever sent spies into allied territory to make sure they weren't colluding with the enemy that lives next door. i.e. Sylvanas

How dare the alliance have night elves check out blood elf territory before solidifying an alliance with them!

In all seriousness their only mistake was not sending the spies south to Tranquillen where they were working with the forsaken already.

i dont think sabotaging blood elven arcane sanctums and sending in a dwarven spy to get intel on key parts of silvermoon to destroy count as

"checking them out".

as a blood elf playing through the starter zone they dont pick a side until the dwarves and the night elves attack them, and then the forsaken help them.

if the dwarves and night elves hadnt attacked them its likely the blood elves wouldve rejoined the alliance or atleast wouldve remained neutral

[RyanEX]

As Jaina said herself neither have the Kirin tor as a whole over the years. There isn't a single race on azeroth that did not screw up at some point in history. Fact remains Jaina broke neutrality before the Sunreavers, she herself said she had darnassus locked down, overseeing teleportation ,keeping horde out, that is a direct interference. That is a fact ,though it matters little both sides are to blame here.

Jaina did that. Jaina alone.

Are the Earthen Ring any less neutral because their leader, oh almighty Thrall, stopped Jaina from exacting a righteous vengeance on Orgrimmar? No they aren't. I think someone over in the Story Forums said it the best. The Neutral factions in WoW can be likened to the Red Cross. They go where they're needed but don't take sides.

Stands to reason that Jaina was in Darn because of this bell. The question is...what was her relation to it. Did she bring it? Did she get called in to study it? The latter seems most likely since the way she talks about the Dalaran portal is that that was the one area she didn't bother locking down. And when you take into account that Dalaran is ruled by a Council then once again they held a vote as to whether or not to go to Darnassus. Sounds like Aethas was the deciding vote again.

And you can't tell me, bad VA or not, that he doesn't sound just a little smug when he tells just that "he did nothing". Sounds more like "you can't prove nothing."

---------- Post added 2012-10-15 at 09:47 PM ----------

Nope he didn't.

Then his lines in the scenario are wrong then. Never mind, I'm an idiot I mean't the belf you rescue as part of the scenario.

[Dybia]

Nope he didn't.

Aethas did recommend Thalen to Rhonin.

"I will do what I can to atone for the treachery of Songweaver. The irony that I sent him as a gesture of goodwill does not escape me."

And yes I know his weakening of the barriers didn't directly lead to the bomb dropping, but it certainly helped.

[Nurabashi]

Old Alliances...

Naga? Anyone?

[Golden Yak]

Their oldest alliances are with Lordaeron and the human kingdoms.

[Combatbutler]

Aethas did recommend Thalen to Rhonin.

"I will do what I can to atone for the treachery of Songweaver. The irony that I sent him as a gesture of goodwill does not escape me."

And yes I know his weakening of the barriers didn't directly lead to the bomb dropping, but it certainly helped.

Page 190

Rhonin:

"I can't believe it. I personally vouched for him to come."

How so the bomb was dropped after all troops had left the city.

[Florena]

Songweaver's betrayal so far as I can tell did not in any way shape or form affect the mana bomb, though the fact that he knew about suggested other sunreavers might have. Not proof, but it's possible that the rogue sunreavers, him and the ones doing things in 5.1, are the ones who made the bomb, but that's just speculation and not proof.

[Dybia]

Page 190

Rhonin:

"I can't believe it. I personally vouched for him to come."

How so the bomb was dropped after all troops had left the city.

Just because Rhonin vouched for him doesn't mean Aethas didn't recommend him to Rhonin.

So what? You're saying the success of the ground invasion breaking through and then retreating had absolutely nothing to do with the bomb being dropped successfully. Nothing at all.

[Combatbutler]

Just because Rhonin vouched for him doesn't mean Aethas didn't recommend him to Rhonin.

So what? You're saying the success of the ground invasion breaking through and then retreating had absolutely nothing to do with the bomb being dropped successfully. Nothing at all.

Does it change the fact that Rhonin had the final say in the matter? No so ultimately it was also Rhonins responsibility and since Aethas voted for jaina to become the head of the six it is pretty much safe to say he had nothing to do with it, otherwise he would have tried to hinder her influence as much as possible.

Nope all it did was keeping them somewhat occupied, but even without Thalen things would have gone a similar way the horde would have just assaulted the gates longer, than they would have retreated and the bomb would have been dropped end of story.

[Dybia]

So weakening their magical defenses, keeping them in their walls, again nothing to do with the bomb? I mean the bomb wasn't even supposed to hit near the tower the way it did. Rhonin drew it there because of the magic wards Jaina had there so he could suppress the blast.

[Combatbutler]

So weakening their magical defenses, keeping them in their walls, again nothing to do with the bomb? I mean the bomb wasn't even supposed to hit near the tower the way it did. Rhonin drew it there because of the magic wards Jaina had there so he could suppress the blast.

They would have still been bottled up in the city regardless, in fact if Thalen hadn't been there Vereesa and Shandris might have died, since there wouldn't have been a reason to look for Thalen.

[Mehrunes]

Stands to reason that Jaina was in Darn because of this bell. The question is...what was her relation to it. Did she bring it? Did she get called in to study it? The latter seems most likely since the way she talks about the Dalaran portal is that that was the one area she didn't bother locking down. And when you take into account that Dalaran is ruled by a Council then once again they held a vote as to whether or not to go to Darnassus. Sounds like Aethas was the deciding vote again.

But she says she had Darnassus locked down and that she was killing rogues trying to sneak past her traps. That doesn't sound like she was there to study the bell.

Their oldest alliances are with Lordaeron and the human kingdoms.

But he complains about Alliance's bigotry a few seconds before that. And if the sounds files are in wrong order and the "old alliances" part happens before Dalaran purge, then his idea to reconsider them will end abruptly.

[Dybia]

Vareesa and Shandris would have died anyway as far as the horde knew. The only reason they didn't was Rhonin drawing the bomb to the tower, which is why he did it in the first place. The explosion was supposed to be much bigger.

[Deleted]

Their oldest alliances are with Lordaeron and the human kingdoms.

The citizens of Lordearon you say?

[Dreknar20]

Vareesa and Shandris would have died anyway as far as the horde knew. The only reason they didn't was Rhonin drawing the bomb to the tower, which is why he did it in the first place. The explosion was supposed to be much bigger.

are you sure?
The entire Horde army was watching from across the other side of the shore.

[Frontenac]

At this point, both have developed significant differences from each other that they can be called different species, I think. Draenei aren't born 20 feet tall wreathed in flames.

I'm sure the Eredar were used as fodder when they first joined as well. You don't join an organization/army at the top.

No. Eredars were chosen by Sargeras because they were highly intelligent and natural born magic users. They were destined to become the generals and strategists of the Burning Legion. Kil'jaeden and Archimonde became Sargeras's lieutenants as soon as they were corrupted. Sure, not all Eredars are at the top, but they are all over Gan'arg, Mo'arg, succubus and shivara. They even outrank most Nathrezim. Wrathguard are Eredars that are more corrupted and are under the Man'ari Eredars, but even they are considered elite warriors, far from being fodder. Eredun is even the Legion's main language.

[Dybia]

are you sure?
The entire Horde army was watching from across the other side of the shore.

Yes. Rhonin knew his wife was nearby and that unless he suppressed the explosion as much as he could she would die. The entire attack was meant to bring together major alliance commanders and blow them all up with Theramore. The kirin'tor know about Auchindoun. They know how powerful a mana bomb is.

[Sal the Shieldhog]

Yes. Rhonin knew his wife was nearby and that unless he suppressed the explosion as much as he could she would die. The entire attack was meant to bring together major alliance commanders and blow them all up with Theramore. The kirin'tor know about Auchindoun. They know how powerful a mana bomb is.

Auchindoun (from my memory, unless it fails me) was exploded because of Murmur's summoning.

[Dreknar20]

Yes. Rhonin knew his wife was nearby and that unless he suppressed the explosion as much as he could she would die. The entire attack was meant to bring together major alliance commanders and blow them all up with Theramore. The kirin'tor know about Auchindoun. They know how powerful a mana bomb is.

if the explosion was as big as you say it was supposed to be, then it would have wiped out the Horde along with Theramore.

[Frontenac]

Jaina was protecting Darnassus with a shield, and a sunreaver disabled Jainas protection, so technically Jaina broke Dalarans neutrality first, but it doesn't matter.

Not necessarily. From what I heard, there was a powerful artifact (divine bell?) in Darnassus for some reason. The shield may have been put in its location to prevent anyone from getting it. When it is stolen, Jaina even thinks at first that it was an inside job, that the thief was in Darnassus. Protecting an artifact is not an act of war or breaking neutrality. Neutrality does not prevent any form of cooperation between two governments. It all depends of what the Night Elves wanted to do with the bell.