Why did paragon really switch to 10 man?

[Gilian]

These forums are really becoming useless with all these kids here trolling and posting bullshit.

[Deleted]

Woo, wall of text!

The fact still stands that Paragon slated 10 man balancing issues in past tiers saying how much easier it is than 25 mans, they now switched to 10 mans, got world first and now take all the credit away from Method, who got the harder and more skilled world first in 25 man.

I personally am not saying 10 man is easier than 25 man, but Paragon have been quoted on numerous occasions saying it. So therefore by their own philosophy and opinion their world first was easier than Methods world first yet Paragon get all the credit...

This statement is falls on every level pretty much. First of all, the only Tier they have commented on is T12, which they did all 10 man because they were so far ahead of every other guild, killing ragnaros a full week before the second best guild, method.

Due to popular request they talked about what they thought about Tier 12 10 man vs 25 man, and many encounters there were easier in 10man, according to Paragon.
They did not do this on T13 or T11 (al'akir exception) and thus you can't say that they always thought the same thing. Many share the view that T11 was indeed harder for 10 man guilds then the 25 man ones.

They did also beat Method in the DS race, even with a christmas break (method probably took one too though). Calculations also show that they probably would have been number 1 that tier too, if they did not do the LFR abuse. Ofcourse they only have themself to blame, but calling them unskilled and saying method is better is just wrong, when none of this has any facts to back it up, in any tier.

If you actually are an active user here, you should have seen one famous and well known paragon member, writing in the biggest to date "T14 race thread" that he agreed with many views that they should be two completely different tiers, that they do not do this in anyway to take credit from Method, and really hoped that method finally would get thier so long wanted World first 25 man this expansion.

Calling this selfish? Calling this "hypocritical?" So anything positive you say about another guild obviously have a deeper, darker side embraced in it.

Let's jump to the next invalid point!

I honestly believe that this is the exact reason Paragon went 10 man instead of sticking with 25 man. They have been on top for so long, realized that they were no longer the best 25 man guild in the world so went 10 man to keep their 'title' as world first. Just look how bitter they got when Kin Raiders took their crown. Paragon members were even quoted making excuses about class stacking on Spine etc.

Once again you seem to twist the word that a member say and try to make out like they planned this all along, or are evil.

This is a list from Lazei from paragon, explaining how many quit, and when those who quit had joined.
-14 after DS
Not as accurate but along the lines of: 5 MC, 1 Vanilla Naxramas, 6 Ulduar, 2 FL

So you just lost 14 members, atleast 10 of these had been with you for atleast a full expansion, while atleast 5 have been there since vanilla.
Now you have to recruit atleast 14 new people, hope that they got the same skill, dedication and time.
Now you have to limit this search to about 1% of the wow playerbase due to language barriers.
Now you have to limit this search to a very marginal amount of players that actually applied
Now you have to limit this search to a even smaller marginal who passed the apply, actually had good experience from before
Now you have to limit this search to a even smaller marginal who passed the apply, and preformed well during test runs and such.
So, what do you do if you can't find the people you are looking for? They maybe just wasn't good enough, didn't have enough dedication, or changed there mind midway.

It's fairly obvious that if Paragon would have had the players of equal skll and dedication, as they had before, that they would have kept going with 25 mans, as many of them belive 25 man is more fun (various interviews) but if the choice was between during poorly in a 25 man or doing awesome in a 10 man, maybe they changed thier mind.

Your last sentence is once again so much fail. They did indeed congratulate Kin Raiders for there impressive victory, but they also said that they disliked THAT encounter, because encounter wise it was very very poorly done. They also said that they disliked how the second to last boss were alot harder then the last boss. Is it really wierd that they got annoyed at blizzard for doing that encounter that way? Have you killed it, then you should know.

In my opinion they are a bitter and hypocritical guild.

Guess what, no one cares a shit about your opinion, let people have thier own instead of trying to imprint false and covered up facts to sound smart. Twisting words and trying to embrace some kind of deep conspiracy darkside shit.

Paragon has done tons of community hosted events for thier fans, they have always tried to answer as many questions as possible without loosing anything themself and they have always been dedicated, it's disguisting how you try to flush everything they have down straight down the toilet.

[Deleted]

Did I say that? No, I didn't. Read better, troll harder or stop posting.

Why did you delete half my post out of the quote to avoid answering akward questions. I will say again

"You also said you prefer 25 mans to 10 mans. There is only one reason for dropping to 10 mans despite the fact you like 25 mans more... and that is to get world first. You know for a fact you only went 10 man so you could be ranked #1 this tier"

Comment on that instead.

[Deleted]

So as we all know, Paragon switched to 10 man for this tier. They claim it was because they didn't have enough members, but this was not the case. They lost 3-4 of their core members and they got recruits to fill up the spots that were empty. Paragon had a 25 man raid team ready for MoP raiding.

Every guild goes through Roster changes and they deal with it. Method, Ensidia and Blood Legion etc have all been through almost disastrous roster changes and have come back strong.

In my opinion Paragon realized that they were no longer the top 25 man guild. Especially during T13 and getting their asses handed to them during live speedruns of Dragon Soul heroic. So they decided to go to 10 mans to delude people into thinking they are still the best guild.

Basically they faced an obstacle that potentially jepordized their chances of getting World First 25 man, so instead of trying and being determined they backed out of the challenge to opt for the easier option of 10 mans.

So now Paragon can keep their precious #1 ranking and keep everyone under the impression that they are still top.

Paragons switch to 10 man was genius, there was 3 potential outcomes

Outcome one: Paragon get world first 10 man before the 25 man guilds
Paragons response: Look guys, we are still the best in the world

Outcome 2: Paragon get's world first 10 man AFTER the world first 25 kill
Paragons response: Oh well, we were not in the same race as the 25 man guilds anyway.

Outcome 3: Paragon don;t get world first 10 man
Paragons response: Well it was to be expected, we don't have 10 man experience.

This was a pre-planned move by Paragon to allow them to keep their reputation as the best in the world. The fact is they DID have a 25 man raiding team and chose to downsize anyway. Other guild would choose to get through their problems and do all they can to keep raiding 25 man but Paragon decided to take the cheap and easy way out.

Not going to address the rest of your post but;

Paragon do have 10 man experience!! They got world first Ragnaros Heroic and Lich King Heroic on 10 man!! Do some research mate.

[Deleted]

I don't think that Diivii has to comment or to prove anything to you m8, especially when you are so rude.
I suggest you to chill a bit, so the rest of us can ocassionaly see a top raider coming here to post his opinion, on matters we royaly blow out of proporsion.

[Socialhealer]

0/10...pathetic, thinking you know paragon inside out.

paragon > all > dead badger > you.

[therayeffect]

They have a tiny ass recruitment pool to choose from since they only pick up Finnish speaking players. End of Story. I don't understand why this isn't locked unless of course it's to pick out people who need a time out because it seems to be doing a pretty good job at that lol.

[Wixwix]

I am from Europe.

That does not however make me an automatic supporter of Paragon. I am a Blood Legion and Method 'fan' By fan I mean I like following those guilds and wish them well in world firsts.

The fact still stands that Paragon slated 10 man balancing issues in past tiers saying how much easier it is than 25 mans, they now switched to 10 mans, got world first and now take all the credit away from Method, who got the harder and more skilled world first in 25 man.

I personally am not saying 10 man is easier than 25 man, but Paragon have been quoted on numerous occasions saying it. So therefore by their own philosophy and opinion their world first was easier than Methods world first yet Paragon get all the credit...

I honestly believe that this is the exact reason Paragon went 10 man instead of sticking with 25 man. They have been on top for so long, realized that they were no longer the best 25 man guild in the world so went 10 man to keep their 'title' as world first. Just look how bitter they got when Kin Raiders took their crown. Paragon members were even quoted making excuses about class stacking on Spine etc.

In my opinion they are a bitter and hypocritical guild.

Also yes, I am not in a top 10 guild so my opinion is not worth as much as those who are. However the top 25 man guilds, for the most part, share my opinion on Paragons 10 man.

What is so hard to understand?

They recruit finnish people, and finnish people ONLY. If suddenly you have say, 10 players from your core raid group quit the game, it's close to impossible to replace those people. Hence why they went 10man.

Obviously they would rather keep the integrity of the guild keeping it 100% finnish rather than maybe compete for world first 25man with an international roster which is very understandable.

[hx9]

Finnish - More difficult language
10 Man - More difficult bracket
Finland - More difficult internet connections
No Bloodlust - More difficult raid comp

What more could ya ask for? This isn't just a world first... it's a world first in spite of having pretty much every disadvantage you could put on yourself! Bravo, Paragon!

[Wilderness]

I almost closed this thread earlier when I responded to it, and I should have. There isn't much to say on the subject, as Paragon themselves have stated exactly why they made the switch, and that's all there is to it.