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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Xanjori View Post
    The first can simply be implemented into current Anticipation, the second surely its more likely that it would happen if it was a second row? For example first boss Moshogun vaults, tank taunts away the one your anticipation is on and you've lost CPs, if you SnD off it with current you can then start building on a new target and unlock the anticipation points after your rupture/evisc.
    Right now, considering our energy regeneration, it's most likely that you won't be on time to get a 5-pt rupture/eviscerate/envenom and you will end losing all the stored CP. It may be a bit easier for Subtlety.
    Shadow Walk : Significantly increases Stealth effectiveness for 6 sec, but causes Stealth to be nerfed to justify its usage. In addition, it uses old Enveloping Shadows icon and has no sound, animation or spell effect to show that the skill is actually doing something.

  2. #22
    ...OR... You know... We could just have combo points stacked on the rogue? No...? Sorry... Thought I'd just throw it out there.

  3. #23
    Herald of the Titans Injin's Avatar
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    The problem is pretty simple.

    Rogues, the classic trope of rogues are arrive out of nowhere, kill you before you blink assholes.

    In the modern, mainstream MMO this sort of playstyle is toxic to (non rogue) player enjoyment. Being blown out of your shoes by something you never even saw coming simply isn't fun. Especially when it happens half a dozen times in a row.

    And so rogues are just hanging around a halfway house between what they are supposed to be in classic RPG games (high damage but squishy nukers) and what the playerbase will accept (i.e. if has stealth then players require ability to get away, must be lower burst damage etc) Pretty much everything wrong with rogues is down to this watering down of what a classic rogue should be for the maintenance of general player enjoyment in (world) pvp.

    I'd lay decent money that rogues have been neutered on purpose at the start of every expac simply to keep levelling for non rogues tolerable on pvp servers again for the same reasons. This time out the emphasis is on war and so the watering down has to be more severe to stop playerbase tears.

    High reliance on auto attack damage and poisons over big yellow hits, kitability etc etc is all explained by the above theory.
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  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Incineration View Post
    ...OR... You know... We could just have combo points stacked on the rogue? No...? Sorry... Thought I'd just throw it out there.
    Never! Our design is too perfect. What monks or paladins have, in example, is faulty.
    Shadow Walk : Significantly increases Stealth effectiveness for 6 sec, but causes Stealth to be nerfed to justify its usage. In addition, it uses old Enveloping Shadows icon and has no sound, animation or spell effect to show that the skill is actually doing something.

  5. #25
    I am Murloc! Xanjori's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Incineration View Post
    ...OR... You know... We could just have combo points stacked on the rogue? No...? Sorry... Thought I'd just throw it out there.
    Blizzard say they dont want to, so while doing that its better to discuss what they could or might do.

    Right now, considering our energy regeneration, it's most likely that you won't be on time to get a 5-pt rupture/eviscerate/envenom and you will end losing all the stored CP. It may be a bit easier for Subtlety
    Perhaps, Ive not played enough Combat to see its CP generation is like, literally the first boss in Moshogun was the only time this xpac Ive played it because BF is simply too strong to not use, personally I find myself in the situation quite often where I can "transfer" CPs without the use of redirect. It happens a lot in dungeons too where CT is a very strong finisher for Sub and really carries my damage, especially with mobs health pools not being so high that final Eviscerate would mostly be overkill, so a switch is generally beneficial.
    [08:44:11] Kurioxan: as long they get big im alright with that

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  6. #26
    Blizzard often change their minds. What they hold for an absolute truth today, they may very well disagree with tomorrow. Remember the hybrid tax? Where is it now...?

  7. #27
    Dreadlord Shambulanced's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    The problem is pretty simple.

    Rogues, the classic trope of rogues are arrive out of nowhere, kill you before you blink assholes.

    In the modern, mainstream MMO this sort of playstyle is toxic to (non rogue) player enjoyment. Being blown out of your shoes by something you never even saw coming simply isn't fun. Especially when it happens half a dozen times in a row.
    This is certainly one problem. One solution is to do what most players I read on the forums want--give abilities different modifiers in PvP. Blizz doesn't like doing this because they CLAIM that "it makes things too complicated and we don't want PvP and PvE to be different games," but the fact of the matter is that PvP and PvE have always, ALWAYS been different games, with different priorities, measures of success, and types of skill required. The bottom line is, they don't want to devote the dev resources to creating the "different games."


    High reliance on auto attack damage and poisons over big yellow hits, kitability etc etc is all explained by the above theory.
    Which is terrible. A vast majority of Muti damage, which does require effort to keep rolling (rupture, etc), is actually done by the PASSIVE strikes of Deadly Poison. You basically are the warlock of melee--keep your buffs/debuffs up and then hit a filler like a shadow bolt here and there.

    Rogues should be the opposite, imo. Constant action required (remember spamming attacks in BC? I actually liked that) for a higher payoff. None of this pooling energy/waiting on energy/most damage passive bs.
    Last edited by Shambulanced; 2012-10-13 at 07:26 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by flick86 View Post
    It is not and never will be elitist to expect another player to know how to play his class and carry his own weight.
    #Blizzardplsdontdodis

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Sendai View Post
    Never! Our design is too perfect. What monks or paladins have, in example, is faulty.
    Indeed! The only reason we SEEM to lack in pvp potential, is simply because we cannot defile our weapons with the filthy blood of those degenerates...! A high-class rogue's dagger? Used on the common peasant? Don't make me laugh!

  9. #29
    Stood in the Fire Vinho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnarchyEU View Post
    Rogues are easily fixed if they listen to their damned playerbase and all the feedback they got in the beta.
    I feel we're way too gear dependant to buff us.... Let's say we're buffed and are consistently able to (from a PvE's perspective) sustain top 1-3 Damage on every single fight... As soon as we obtain better gear we're going to scale ridiculously and remain #1 and our margin of #1 will forever increase and expand.

    Then what is Blizz supposed to do? Nerf us back down?

    I Think doing nothing is the smartest thing Blizzard can do right now.

    People will complain that nothing is happening to us, but will complain just the same if we get our cries answered, but then later down the road get chopped down again.

  10. #30
    Rogues are a minority of wow players. They are not flashy. They frustrate the fuck out of other players. I doubt we will be buffed for this reason. Maybe we will get a flashy update like warlocks and not a buff update like warriors.

    Its so simillar with warriors issue with rage as in gear might be important a little too much and we scale a little too exponentially compared to other classes

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