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  1. #1
    Field Marshal Dytzy's Avatar
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    DW versus 2H

    I was just wondering, tonight my guild will be working on Garalon and possibly wind lord.

    Since garalon is a cleave fight (legs and primary target) as well as wind lord (adds) on those fights is it a substantial dps increase to switch from 2H frost to DW frost for the night?

    I understand 2H is better dps single target by about 1.8% but I know DW is better at cleave/aoe fights. So I'm just wondering how big of a differance would going DW be for the night? with equivalent ilvl weapons for both.

    Here's my armory link incase you think my gear might be a deciding factor. I haven't tried DW out yet this expansion but I did do masterfrost in CATA so I know the differance in rotation, gemming, enchants, and reforges.

    Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...d/Fytzy/simple
    Last edited by Dytzy; 2012-11-06 at 01:33 PM. Reason: Change title since its become more DW VS 2H and less garalon specific

  2. #2
    Id say it wont be that big of a difference ( could be wrong ) since your AoE wont reach all 4 legs, the only way to reach all 4 legs is spread diseases from Garalon himself to other legs.

  3. #3
    I'd say it really depends on your raid comp and raid size as well as strategy

  4. #4
    Herald of the Titans Varyk's Avatar
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    The bigger thing for me was the movement, having the heavier hitting dots and the ability to still attack on the move (Howling Blast) made me stay DW for that fight. Do you have the same weapons? Dw is ahead if u have even 1 lfr elegion. If all you're trying to do is pad meters by having dots on everything you probably won't actually do more damage to the boss during the burn phase.

  5. #5
    DW ultimately beats 2H on Garalon due to the increased use of HB.

  6. #6
    Field Marshal Dytzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bals View Post
    I'd say it really depends on your raid comp and raid size as well as strategy
    Raid comp: Fire mage, Rogue, Frost DK, Spriest/lock (they rotate in/out), BM hunter, Ele/Resto sham (switches on diff fights), Holy pally, Priest healer, Prot pally, prot warrior

    10man

    Strat: We will have the healz/ranged kiting the boss, melee cleave classes focusing boss and cleaving down the legs, single target classes and ranged single targetting the boss. Legs will be dealt with entirely by cleave classes, single target classes will not single target legs, to optimize the damage for the cleave classes by having the legs up longer thru-out the fight

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-05 at 10:20 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Varyk View Post
    The bigger thing for me was the movement, having the heavier hitting dots and the ability to still attack on the move (Howling Blast) made me stay DW for that fight. Do you have the same weapons? Dw is ahead if u have even 1 lfr elegion. If all you're trying to do is pad meters by having dots on everything you probably won't actually do more damage to the boss during the burn phase.
    not trying to pad meters, but I am trying to optimize dps.

    Doing more damage to legs will not be "wasted" and/or "padded" dps since damage to legs are also done to the boss. So I'm really just trying to figure out if I should reforge/gem/enchant before raid to DW. The idea is leaving legs up longer gives cleave dps double damage on the boss.

    TLDR: I'm trying to figure out how much of a damage increase it would be, because if it's almost the same then I don't think it would be worth it, but if its significant I definately would be willing to...

    Also: the 2H and DW weapons I have are all 463 ilvl.
    Last edited by Dytzy; 2012-11-05 at 06:21 PM.

  7. #7
    Mechagnome Italiandk's Avatar
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    Let's say if DW is ahead 2h in a single target rotation it will be more ahead due to a cleave mechanic: DW benefit more then 2h because of HB.

    How much DW will be superior than 2h it will be up to you.

  8. #8
    Well tbh I will try it a big other way:

    Keep only the range dps'ers on the kite (need 3-4) keep the healers in the middle kinda part to just heal and be in range with the people. The range dps'ers that kite just dps the boss and kite. The mele dps'ers just go for the legs 100% and when you they have downtime they dps the boss. Also I don't think you need 2 tanks to be in front of him, just make one tank go offspec dps. We run with just 1 druid tank and me, frost DK on the first 2 legs and be in front of the boss and i was very good tbh. The boss frontal swipe hits for 200k or so on me. So it's healable and the dps you provide on the front legs is very good since the frontal position you get inside one of the two circle always to dps the leg.
    Last edited by naturestorm; 2012-11-05 at 06:45 PM.

  9. #9
    dw beat everything i pull 94k dps on gara heroic with 476 elegon lol

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabbynator View Post
    dw beat everything i pull 94k dps on gara heroic with 476 elegon lol
    Right cause Garalon HC is already available ...

  11. #11
    They're probably talking about Gara'jal...

    But anyways even with 463 weapons I still did 122k dps on Garalon. Even if you have a higher ilvl 2 hander, you're more than likely going to do more damage as DW. You hit 2 targets the entire time so DW >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2 hand.

    On Windlord its even more pronounced.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Dytzy View Post
    Raid comp: Fire mage, Rogue, Frost DK, Spriest/lock (they rotate in/out), BM hunter, Ele/Resto sham (switches on diff fights), Holy pally, Priest healer, Prot pally, prot warrior

    10man

    Strat: We will have the healz/ranged kiting the boss, melee cleave classes focusing boss and cleaving down the legs, single target classes and ranged single targetting the boss. Legs will be dealt with entirely by cleave classes, single target classes will not single target legs, to optimize the damage for the cleave classes by having the legs up longer thru-out the fight[COLOR="red"]
    dw would be way better than if you're cleaving with the rogue. unless the rogue is able to kill the legs easily by himself

  13. #13
    I understand 2H is better dps single target by about 1.8% but I know DW is better at cleave/aoe fights. So I'm just wondering how big of a differance would going DW be for the night? with equivalent ilvl weapons for both
    That is absolutely not true. DW is the better DPS all around now, the initial sims were using a sub-par priority for DW. Now that it's been fixed DW is simming ahead and has less of the rotation issues that 2H has as it's impossible to waste a KM as DW making it's actual performance compared to 2H even better.

  14. #14
    Yeah, I'll need to test it out sometime next week as I missed out kill this week.

    489 2H
    vs
    476 MH/463 OH

    My money is on DW winning.

  15. #15
    Easy way to test - sim your gear with 2h with 2 targets then sim your gear with dw with 2 targets. DW will probably beat out 2h by quite a bit.

  16. #16
    Mechagnome Italiandk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PowerGamez View Post
    Yeah, I'll need to test it out sometime next week as I missed out kill this week.

    489 2H
    vs
    476 MH/463 OH

    My money is on DW winning.
    I'm not so sure, 2h gain a lot of dps via weapon dmg.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by PowerGamez View Post
    Yeah, I'll need to test it out sometime next week as I missed out kill this week.

    489 2H
    vs
    476 MH/463 OH

    My money is on DW winning.
    If you know your play they should be even. Unless your stats are somewhat off. And as a note the only way DW would pull way way ahead on Garalon would be if they legs would really retract. In the fight when he moves the animation for the legs show they retract a bit inside, but the circle remains there. If you are anywhere inside the circle you can still mele/dps the leg as if it was in front of you. If the animation would be on pair with the real hit box then DW tops the metter because you can't mele it but you can HoB and keep diseases.

  18. #18
    Yesterday we did both bosses. I am DW since I got the 1H from elegon normal and a 463 OH. Of course at wind lord you do tremendous damage in the first phase while adds are up. Keep in mind though that the phase with the boss alone is quite long as well so you may see 300-400K dps for the first 2 minutes and then see your dps drop to the usual number.

    About Garalon. I do not think the cleave is strong enough to justify DW that much. I have not yet tested it with 2H, but we are not rogues on this. Blade flurry is extremely powerful here, while HB might be ok but I feel that the strong dps on the legs might outweigh it.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by schleimhaut View Post
    Right cause Garalon HC is already available ...
    He prolly meant "gara" as in...wait for it...Gara'jal. Dun dun duuuuuuun.

    But i can understand your confusion when everyone is so quick to jump on everyone else for "being stupid."

  20. #20
    killed this boss yesterday as 2h frost using normal starshatter, ending up somewhere at 117k dps... in bags i have normal elegion and inelava, i was going to reforge to DW for 4th boss in HoF but this thread got me thinking, should we switch to DW full time?

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