Verdict finally in: MoP is substantially worse than previous expansions

[spandex]

I came back to wow just to play with a friend, after quitting in late cata.. I can say that MOP is definitely better than cata so far (there's actually shit to do) even if I'm still pretty tired of the game in general (and video games for that matter). I'm not saying it's fantastic, cause I think the whole pandaren thing is fucking stupid, and LFD/LFR still exists (uggh) but they've definitely done things to fill the game back out.

Cataclysm was like a hollow shell of WoW, with so little to do, so few dungeons and raids, no one in the world etc. and while shit like CRZ is clearly just a bandaid for a bigger problem, it's a better bandaid than we usually see from Blizzard. Most of the time we just hear an excuse along the lines of "we can't fix this the way we want to, so we'll leave it broken". Or even better, they will not even acknowledge an obvious issue until they have some kind of solution planned...

[therayeffect]

Debatable. Valor-capping gives you a buff to your alts' valor on that server, and they're working on bringing in a way to increase rep gains for your alts when you hit Revered with a given faction in response to criticisms about how long rep grinding takes in 5.1. As for the lore, I find Pandaria's low-key release storyline to be a welcome breath of fresh air after three expansions straight of ERMAHGERDSDAWORLD'SGONNAEND!. Valley of the Four Winds is basically a slice of life story and yet it's easily up there in my favorite zones of all time, only beaten out by the new EPL.

Also, calling the game Wrath 2.0 is, to me, a compliment. I highly enjoyed Wrath's casual-friendly approach and I adore MoP being moreso with the variety of content at level cap.

Wrath was very give and take. It had the best raid of all time (Ulduar), some of the best lore ever and yet it's heroics became faceroll easy, raiding was casualized and it also suffered from lack of content late in it's tenure along with a pretty hefty leveling grind initially. To me MoP is worse because of it's unending grinding and their complete disregard for Alts. The grinding is just so unbearable I don't even know where they should begin relaxing it. Cooking? Reputation? New Heirlooms that extend to 90? Stacking the dailies/heroic dungeon dailies/etc so there are 7 total but you can choose when to do them? I know they're planning on getting a bit of rep nerf out but it isn't really going to make me want to play my alts. That's like offering free crackers with a $100 dinner. That's not a deal.

[Immitis]

A few months ago I posted a thread asking people to predict review scores for MoP:
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-review-scores

The results were indisputable, most people predicted MoP would score 90-94%.

Now look at the score on metacritic: http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/wo...ts-of-pandaria

It is around 83%. This is the worst score a WoW expansion has ever had, and way below the expectations of what people predicted.

I'm not trying to start a war of words here, I'm pointed out factual data we now have regarding the quality of the expansion.

EDIT: We're not talking about the USER SUBMITTED REVIEWS on metacritic here (which can be ignored), we're talking about the actual CRITIC Reviews from respected people like IGN, eurogamer and gamespot.

I cant believe some of you guys are taking this post seriously. Look at his post history every thread he makes and post is about how wow is being dumbed down and is dying and that the only people who still play are fanboy addicts. he doesnt even play wow

[Deleted]

83% is still a pretty good score.

[Amsden]

Critics have a pretty low track record of predicting what I will enjoy. Guess I'm in for a great expansion.

[Tokas]

oh those phaggots, always have something to complain about

[McNeil]

Atleast its FAR better than Cataclysm, but not as good as TBC and WotLK

[Pascal]

Not surprised at all that panda expansion is getting worse reviews than all other expansions that preceded it.

If you come up with an expansion with the purpose of catering to Chinese market instead of doing something good for everybody including Chinese, you may end up with bad reviews.

People who think Mists is catering the Chinese market are pretty culturally misled. I live in the United States, so if Blizzard released an expansion about apple pie, NASCAR and being culturally misled, I'd totally be into it, right?

As someone else said, do you think WotLK brought in Norwegian subscribers?

[darkwarrior42]

80 "The rigid quest structure and age-old combat system feel archaic when measured up against the new kid on the block Guild Wars 2, and the new features that the Mists of Pandaria brings aren't quite enough to recommend it to MMORPG newcomers over the NCsoft title." - Oh boy, another GW2 comparison. Let's apple and oranges everything when writing an objective review for a game and call it a day. We had enough discussion over why this kind of comparison is stupid with our last thread about the Kotaku article where the author does nothing but compare WoW to GW2 and call it bad after playing for 4 hours. There are THREE games that use active fight style, GW2, Terra, and one other that I don't even remember the name for because who the fuck cares if you have active combat. A statistic based combat system is fucking classic. I enjoy games where I can actively fight by moving in a completely different way than I enjoy games that rely on your stats. WoW sticks to its roots in the RPG niche by not transitioning to an active fighting system, plus the way classes work, combat works, everything would have to be completely overhauled in such a way that, imagine how long you guys have to wait before you start whining about new content, imagine waiting three times as long and the only change that occurs is a combat system revamp. I'd be furious.

I'm sorry, but WoW is not a purely stat based combat system. Have you not noticed how much active response and movement there is in raiding? If you stand in one place and rely on stats and items to get the job done, you will die. Every time. And be called a noob (or worse) in the process.

WoW has an active combat system. It's just a little bit less active than other games, which is why the comparison is made. If it used a traditional stat based system (where your success or failure were determined by your stats), there'd be less of a comparison. But instead we have a system where I can avoid falling rocks, I can avoid meteors from the sky, I can avoid a huge number of specific attacks in raid combat... but I can't avoid the giant fist coming at my face by side-stepping it. It's jarring.

And let's not forget one of the biggest gripes about GW2's quest system - you have a new mechanic to learn how to use for nearly every quest, that is never used again after that quest. I think the quest structure that WoW follows is classic and enjoyable in the same way the statistic combat system is. Any good old RPG's questing system is pretty much like this - I'm not sure what you really expect to happen if we stop collecting bear asses. Every quest is a complex, complicated event where you have to use new abilities and different tools to accomplish something? Each quest takes ten minutes? What exactly are you looking for? Sometimes a dude just needs some fucking bear asses. There are fucking tons of unique quests now where you use vehicles and the extra action button to accomplish things, and I'll be honest, when I get those I think, goddamnit I just want to get you some bear asses.

A new mechanic for every quest? What are you talking about? "Questing" in GW2 is just going to an area where something needs done, and doing it. It's as much learning a new mechanic as picking up new quests in WoW is. "Oh, I have to hit my interact button on these objects instead of those?" "Oh, I'm looking for sparkly apples instead of sparkly gears?"

And if you're referencing the random items/weapons you're sometimes given in GW2, they work exactly like any other weapon, just with different abilities. Nowhere near as jarring as the random vehicle bullshit (or did they not bring back any vehicle style quests in MoP? And even if they didn't, there were so many of them in Cata and revamped Old World I hardly think you can attack GW2 for this without attacking WoW for it).

You attack the reviewers for reviewing MoP without experiencing everything in it, but clearly you either did not play GW2 more than 10 minutes (if at all) or were so biased that you were just looking for things to criticize. But maybe you're right, maybe the renown hearts of GW2 are complicated. Let's read a sample one, shall we? I just logged into my warrior, went to a zone I hadn't been to before, and found the first renown heart I could find. It reads "Dispatch separatists, destroy their supplies, and steal explosive powder to give to Jahr Duskrend." I talk to the heart guy, and he describes the separatist camp just behind him, and offers to let me use his gear. I look at it, but it doesn't look all that useful so I decide to just run in with my greatsword and axe/shield. Sure enough, all I have to do is slaughter enemies and pick up sparkly things... just like WoW, except I don't have to kill specific quantities of named mobs ("Kill 10 bashers and 10 engineers, nevermind that there are 50 bashers and only 2 engineers...") So perhaps the problem is that unlike WoW, you can often choose not to use the special stuff they offer in GW2 and still progress?

My point isn't to turn this into a WoW vs GW2 debate, as I think those are silly (they really are very different games, and so shouldn't be directly compared, imo). My point is that your criticisms of GW2 sound, to me, as baseless and biased as the reviewers criticisms of WoW sound to you.

Edit: I won't post anything else about GW2 here, but I'd be happy to discuss it in PM if you want to continue the discussion.

[Thage]

Wrath was very give and take. It had the best raid of all time (Ulduar), some of the best lore ever and yet it's heroics became faceroll easy, raiding was casualized and it also suffered from lack of content late in it's tenure along with a pretty hefty leveling grind initially. To me MoP is worse because of it's unending grinding and they're complete disregard for Alts. The grinding is just so unbearable I don't even know where they should begin relaxing it. Cooking? Reputation? New Heirlooms that extend to 90? Stacking the dailies/heroic dungeon dailies/etc so there are 7 total but you can choose when to do them? I know they're planning on getting a bit of rep nerf out but it isn't really going to make me want to play my alts. That's like offering free crackers with a $100 dinner. That's not a deal.

I dunno, dude. I dig me some crackers like you would not believe.

With that bit of levity out of the way, I honestly don't mind how long leveling's taking (I'm working on my rogue in short stints between leveling a monk). Pandaria quests are story-heavy and, especially in Valley of the Four Winds, going around with Chen and Li Li was a nice break from 'Doom and Gloom, Gloom and Doom! Oh, also, your faction leaders are idiots.'

As to where they could relax it, maybe allow that rep buff to stack based on how many alts you get to Revered, making the game cumulatively more alt-friendly, and making alternative paths to dailies for rep grinding (like, say, a tough questline that offers rep and rewards you with an item that, while carried, gives you the usual rep gains in dungeons for that faction)?

[Biged781]

Well, I am certainly glad that "the verdict" is now in. I mean, I thought I was having fun, but how was I to know for sure? Thank you metacritic, this is indeed the worst expansion ever.

[Deleted]

Asiatic theme != catering to the Chinese market. If MoP catered to the Chinese market it would have been designed more like Perfect World, which is enormously successful over there.

If MoP (rife with chop-sockey stereotypes) is catering to the Chinese market, then do you also think Wrath brought in a surge of Norwegian subs?

Please do not even compare.
Stylewise mop is the equivalent of bending over, taking Down Your pants and shouting WELCOME IN!! to the Chinese market.
It might be a good marketing strategy but its bound to get criticised.
Wotlk had influences (even strong at times) MIXED with a bunch of things that made it LOOK interesting (remember we're discussing style now).
I'm going through the zones in mop now with my rogue and I have to admit its too much.
This is like uldum and Indiana jones. It's not an Easter egg anymore it's a 14 kg rock shoveled down your throat.
The Asian (Chinese) theme is not an "influence" in mop. It's a supporting pillar.

[Hyve]

Why are so many people concerned about the scores?

If you play, you're enjoying it. If you don't play, you obviously were not. Simple ...

[Marema]

Lol, Metacritic.

pretty much this

[Suikoden]

Atleast its FAR better than Cataclysm, but not as good as TBC and WotLK

Well if it's a step up in terms of quality for ya, than I'm glad that's the case.

[couchboi]

Nothing you said proves shit once you posted metacritic as a source. Metacritic is garbage. Do yourself a favor and STOP visiting that trash site.

[Lomak]

Only ignorant people will decide to play/not play a game based on a review, rather than trying it for themselves. How can you decide if a game is good or not based on someone elses opinion, unless you like being told what to enjoy.

This response is pretty ignorant.

I , as a consumer, can watch or read a review as a source of information about the game. Maybe I find out something new that peaks my interest? Maybe I learn about new mechanics that I think are dumbed down or just don't appeal to me. Ect ect.

You know it is possible to read a review and take away valuable information about a game without letting the authors opinion about it taint how I , as an individual, would enjoy the game. Maybe the reviewer says something like "blah blah is interesting yet it has a steep learning curve with lots of layered mechanics that may turn away new players" , and maybe that is something that peaks my interest. I could go on and on. Reviews of games aren't worthless just because you happen to disagree with the opinion of the author.

Like it or not Metacritic is an amazing site that is probably the best place to learn about games coming out without having to play them first. Not that it will stop people from posting witty one-liners like "lol metacritic" just because they don't think panda wow is the best thing to ever happen (seems to be the common thought of the people still playing wow).

[Thage]

Please do not even compare.
Stylewise mop is the equivalent of bending over, taking Down Your pants and shouting WELCOME IN!! to the Chinese market.

Yeah, dude, I totally love franchises that parody the shit out of American culture and portray it as nothing but a land of stereotypes. Did you know that's what got me into Ghost in the Shell, the way they portrayed the American Empire, and it wasn't the series and story itself?

The reason they picked Pandaria was because it's a scenic, peaceful backdrop to put the faction war into striking relief once the ships hit the shores and we start tearing the place up. Anything beyond that is just people shouting out unsupported misinformation because they don't like the flavor of the launch content's story (which is fine. But don't pretend it's something it's not).

[Evil Inside]

A few months ago I posted a thread asking people to predict review scores for MoP:
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-review-scores

The results were indisputable, most people predicted MoP would score 90-94%.

Now look at the score on metacritic: http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/wo...ts-of-pandaria

It is around 83%. This is the worst score a WoW expansion has ever had, and way below the expectations of what people predicted.

I'm not trying to start a war of words here, I'm pointed out factual data we now have regarding the quality of the expansion.

EDIT: We're not talking about the USER SUBMITTED REVIEWS on metacritic here (which can be ignored), we're talking about the actual CRITIC Reviews from respected people like IGN, eurogamer and gamespot.

Honestly, who gives a flying fuck if they rated it low. Am I supposed to quit now and never look back? It's a shame, just when I thought I was having fun. Ratings dont mean crap, ratings from metacritic even more so, I didnt realize some people need "critics" to decide what games they should play for them.

[Lomak]

You guys ever stop to think that the reason you get so mad over the most absurd little things is an obvious sign that you have an unhealthy emotional attachment to the game. Why are you cursing and insulting everyone over a simple difference of opinion. It's juvenile.