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  1. #1
    Grunt Khross's Avatar
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    is brewmaster a good raid tank?

    hey there,

    i enjoy lvling mij monk who is 65now
    im the ot in my guild and a dk but i love monk more because of the playstyle.

    so i informed my gm about it but he keeps saying that monk tanks take to mutch damage...
    he ses he healed some in hc dungeons and they took massive damage

    what is your opinion and how can i get him so far so i can go monk tank?

  2. #2
    Mechagnome Avalya's Avatar
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    Only bad monks take a lot of damage - if you know how to play a monk, you will take less damage than most other tanks (overall), but you have less cooldowns to take you out of sticky situations, so having tank CDs from healers is really nice (I am the one calling for CDs on fights with heavy tank damage (Will of the Emperor, Gara'jal last 20%, Feng and so on), whereas my DK tank buddy just pops one of his 4 or 5 or 6 cooldowns and smiles about it. When the dust settles however, I usually sit at 30 to 40% less damage taken than him, that's just how it is.

  3. #3
    Grunt Khross's Avatar
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    oke thanks alot

  4. #4
    people are still learning how to play monk tanks. its not the class, its the players. And any shortcomings of the class is because people arent skilled enough at monks to properly display that Yes this is a shortcoming of the class and not a players inexperience. A lot of poorly skilled players are trying them out right now (a whole load of people are trying them out, so out of this population theres bound ot be quite a bit of stupid, like on new dungeon patch days), their poor performance causes bias in some people towards the class rather than the people. It was the same with DK's.

    But still, those who have already learnt how to tank as a monk are doing VERY well.

  5. #5
    Mechagnome Serenia's Avatar
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    I'm sure Monks are good and can compete with most other tanks. It all depends in good management of your abilities and for what you are using your chi for and your elusive brew. I'm sure it also has to do with that spell you learn around 70ish that clears your stagger dmg. I noticed Brewmasters have this stagger mechanic that prevents % of the dmg, but it comes as a dot or something but with that spell that dot is cleared which means that they take less dmg. I'm sure that's what seperates a bad brewmaster from a great one but it's just my thoughts on this, I'm a paladin tank and I will never change!

  6. #6
    exact same thing happened with the DK's back in WoTLK so yeah, ppl got to learn how to play.
    If he cant understand this just change guild ^^

  7. #7
    Grunt Khross's Avatar
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    oke thanks alot for your input guys

  8. #8
    Is it me or do brewmasters have a good chunk less hp compared to other tanks? I noticed most dk,pally and war tanks have about 450 to 500k p at around item level 465 compared to brewmasters sitting around 360k.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenjen View Post
    And any shortcomings of the class is because people arent skilled enough at monks to properly display that Yes this is a shortcoming of the class and not a players inexperience.
    This comment simply gives a lot more credit to Blizzard on tank balance than they deserve. Yes, if you see a monk tank taking ridiculous amounts of damage, it is a player issue. And yes, the tanks are somewhat evenly balanced. But to say that any shortcomings of the class are because of poor players is really quite ridiculous.

    Blizzard has never been that great at balancing tanks. Cataclysm was by far the best expansion for class balance, and even then, it was obvious that Paladins were the best tanks midtier and DKs (and to some extent Druids) were the best tanks end tier. When it isn't specifically class balance, Blizzard puts in boss mechanics that make some tanks clearly better than others for heroic progression content, i.e. DKs trivialized all Madness of Deathwing mechanics, Hagara's main physical damage ability could not be blocked but could be soaked by Death Strikes and dodged by Bears/soaked by Bear armor.

    Lets not even start on tank damage output balancing. Again, some if not all of the monk Brewmaster problems will be because of the player behind the keyboard. But that doesn't mean the tanks are perfectly balanced, either.

  10. #10
    Mechagnome Avalya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moadar View Post
    Is it me or do brewmasters have a good chunk less hp compared to other tanks? I noticed most dk,pally and war tanks have about 450 to 500k p at around item level 465 compared to brewmasters sitting around 360k.
    Correct. This has to do with us gemming agility in our helm, using agility enchant on shoulders and legs, and usually preferring agility/DPS trinkets over true tanking trinkets (I am using the DMC stamina one however, since a bit extra HP pool and an on-demand 7% dodge is really good for progressing HC). All in all, that usually adds up to the difference in health. DKs also have 25% stamina from their presence, and 2% (I believe) from their weapon enchant if they run Gargoyle. Not sure about warriors, paladins or druids, but monks have 20% from their stance, so that's a minor disparity as well.

  11. #11
    I seem to take about equal damage to our blood dk as well as heal for about the same (chi wave op as fuck). He does way more dps than me though.

    Idk if that means they're balanced or he's spamming sit and I suck.

  12. #12
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moadar View Post
    Is it me or do brewmasters have a good chunk less hp compared to other tanks? I noticed most dk,pally and war tanks have about 450 to 500k p at around item level 465 compared to brewmasters sitting around 360k.
    How do you have so few HP? I'm sitting at ~420k-440k raid buffed at i465. Course I get 750 stam from food alone =P

    I swapped from Blood DK and really enjoying the class so far, first real raiding was done this weekend. Our OT is a warrior and was beating him on DPS every fight, heard that DK's have the highest overall tank damage right now but being able to cleave both dogs in Stone Guard sent my DPS through the roof.
    Last edited by SurrealNight; 2012-10-15 at 04:59 PM.

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by SurrealNight View Post
    How do you have so few HP? I'm sitting at ~420k-440k raid buffed at i465. Course I get 750 stam from food alone =P

    I swapped from Blood DK and really enjoying the class so far, first real raiding was done this weekend. Our OT is a warrior and was beating him on DPS every fight, heard that DK's have the highest overall tank damage right now but being able to cleave both dogs in Stone Guard sent my DPS through the roof.
    360k is normal for that ilvl. Raid buffs shoot it much higher.

  14. #14
    I had my main char DK since the start of wotlk untill now (dps frost) and they changed it soo much, this is happening now with the monk, soo if you're enjoying the monk now be sure to play it because they will change it in some months.
    As for the current state of brewmasters yes they're >all tanks if played properly, even our MT left his druid tank for brwmaster.

  15. #15
    Mechagnome Avalya's Avatar
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    If I was healing, I'd rather heal a paladin or a warrior over a monk though. We take rather spiky damage, we have almost no tank cooldowns. Sure, overall we take less damage, but those times we take insane damage without being able to use cooldowns, and without mitigating it with block or high armor - those are the times I'd want to play another class. Those moments don't happen very frequently, and I absolutely love tanking as a monk, but the unpredictability can easily mean a wipe, but good RNG can also easily lead to surviving that hit that would've killed a warrior, or any other tank. There are obviously ups and downs of it.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Avalya View Post
    If I was healing, I'd rather heal a paladin or a warrior over a monk though. We take rather spiky damage...
    This is my worry as well. Blizz overdid our avoidance by giving us a whopping 20% parry, basically baseline, and a CD in elusive brew that gives a huge amount of dodge that is great in the long term but very rng during pivotal moments. We need a serious shift from avoidance to damage reduction, perhaps more armor, more base damage reduction or more stagger. Going from being a block-capped paladin in Cata to a high-avoidance monk is pretty nuts.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Avalya View Post
    If I was healing, I'd rather heal a paladin or a warrior over a monk though. We take rather spiky damage, we have almost no tank cooldowns. Sure, overall we take less damage, but those times we take insane damage without being able to use cooldowns, and without mitigating it with block or high armor - those are the times I'd want to play another class. Those moments don't happen very frequently, and I absolutely love tanking as a monk, but the unpredictability can easily mean a wipe, but good RNG can also easily lead to surviving that hit that would've killed a warrior, or any other tank. There are obviously ups and downs of it.
    We take the LEAST amount of Spike thanks to stagger.

  18. #18
    Scarab Lord Unholyground's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khross View Post
    hey there,

    i enjoy lvling mij monk who is 65now
    im the ot in my guild and a dk but i love monk more because of the playstyle.

    so i informed my gm about it but he keeps saying that monk tanks take to mutch damage...
    he ses he healed some in hc dungeons and they took massive damage

    what is your opinion and how can i get him so far so i can go monk tank?
    The culprit is shuffle for most players, Imo all our chi spenders should ad some duration to it except for Chi Sphere.
    “What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.”

    -Christopher Hitchens, 13 April 1949 – 15 December 2011

  19. #19
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Needonboots View Post
    We take the LEAST amount of Spike thanks to stagger.
    What are Pally/Warrior's CTC look like now in MoP since they changed the ability to hit the 102.4% cap? I'm guessing savage defense CTC is relatively the same?

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Avalya View Post
    If I was healing, I'd rather heal a paladin or a warrior over a monk though. We take rather spiky damage
    Uh... Thats just flat out wrong, the entire stagger mechanic prevents "big spike damage" from melee, and if you know a fight well enough you know when to save Guard or Diffuse or Zen Medi for large incoming magic damage.

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