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  1. #81
    I was quite happy to change to DPS from healing when the time required it (Heroic LK 25 was a good example) but made sure that the raid new my DPS would be sub par. I never got tier gear for off spec until my main spec had 4 set. By not excelling at your secondary role, you guarntee you will never be shifted from your primary one. One way to naturally do this, is by making sure you gear up your secondary role at a much slower rate,
    WoW PvP; Where DPS are healers, tanks are DPS, and healers are tanks!

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  2. #82
    Pit Lord
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    roll pally, no one want a ret pally in raid
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  3. #83
    You must have pretty bad luck with gear if you never got your 4pc for either spec. I myself was the tank that went dps on solo tank fights during Firelands and Dragon Soul and by the end of both tiers was doing competitive DPS and tanking fine as well.

  4. #84
    My shaman had been my main since mid wrath to the end of cata, this is the exact reason i switched in MOP.

    In early Cata I tried to force myself as a healer by having 2 resto specs on my shaman, one was a TC build with points for hit in the ele tree and the other was the more common, with points into the enhance tree. I rarely changed specs, but it made other things like dailies and grinding old content too difficult. A couple of weeks later i switched back to having an Ele spec. Then it went back to the way it was before with being asked to go ele.

    I leveled my druid to 90 first and he is now my main, another hybrid but specced differently, my shaman is 90 but not gearing on purpose and only doing Tillers dailies. My druid is Guard/Feral, i prefer the feral spec so on 1 tank fights i will jump at the chance to change roles, but without a resto spec i will need to change much less often.

    Sorry OP to hear you have the same issue i did, short of switching main only other suggestion would be switching your offspec to enhancement. Its harder to gear Resto/Enh which means you will kinda have an excuse why your healing spec is better geared because it can't share gear. But if they are telling you that you have to gear your offspec and not telling the other healers that, i think you might want to think about if that's the right group for you, either different group in same guild, different guild or maybe a fresh start with different faction/realm.

    Its a game, its supposed to be fun, noone should be forced into something they don't want to do.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by krelianzg View Post
    I'm in a similar position. Signed up for MoP as Ele when we were discussing roles months ago. Two nights into MoP raiding, I'm told our Resto Shaman can only make one night a week due to RL issues, and I'm our new 3rd healer.

    I don't mind Resto, but I'd already geared/gemmed for Ele and now I have to totally switch over. And then do the back/forth switch again. Every week.

    Thankfully, officers assured me they'll cover gem/enchant costs until I have 2 separate sets that are appropriate for Heroic content, but it still sucks.
    I wish my guild did that, but I have nearly 15x the amount of gold the guild bank has. I pay for my fellow raiders enchants, flasks, gems etc. all the time despite the fact that I am keeping hold of my gold for items from the BMAH (tier 3 shaman, fapfapfap)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethes View Post
    By far the easiest solution to this problem would be to change guilds, I agree. But that doesn't change reality. If you just complain at your RL eventually he'll not put up with it any longer. And as the OP hasn't actually changed guilds it's clearly he enjoys some part of the guild he's in and if he want it to stay that way he needs to find a solution for his problem, because from a guild point of view the problem is solved (namely, let the OP dps and they can raid!..)
    Quote Originally Posted by Tychus View Post
    New guild.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    If you're not happy in your current guild, leave your guild.
    Many people seem to be suggesting this. Is the "jump from guild to guild the moment you are unhappy with something" so pervasive that you give advice to drop guild in the first three weeks of raiding?

    I raided from BWL to BT in the same guild and from Sunwell to Firelands in another guild. This is literally my 4th raiding guild ever (raided with a different one in MC). I don't easily leave a guild and that seems to be the general consensus if I'm unhappy.

    I do thank you for the advice, though. I had a talk with the RL, the main tank, and the two other healers last night in mumble. It went well - the other healers are going to work hard on their off-specs and we're going to give them a shot this week.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-16 at 02:18 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Apellosine View Post
    You must have pretty bad luck with gear if you never got your 4pc for either spec. I myself was the tank that went dps on solo tank fights during Firelands and Dragon Soul and by the end of both tiers was doing competitive DPS and tanking fine as well.
    Shaman gear never dropped for me :P

  6. #86
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tankitbetter View Post
    Many people seem to be suggesting this. Is the "jump from guild to guild the moment you are unhappy with something" so pervasive that you give advice to drop guild in the first three weeks of raiding?
    FWIW, I'm a founding member and officer in my guild, and I've been with them going on 6 years. The difference is that as a founding member and officer, I'm able to effect change. If stuff is going wrong, I can fix it. I don't expect the same to be true of other people posting unless they say so.

    If you're not making the decisions for your raid group, and you're not happy, then you need to find somewhere you can be happy. If you make yourself play a spec you don't enjoy and end up hating the game and your guild, that's not good for anyone. Finding somewhere you CAN enjoy the raiding is important. It's not about jumping guilds constantly, it's about doing your research and finding a guild that fits you. Most guild hoppers don't bother with that research, or their expectations are way out of line, so they're constantly unhappy with their current situation; if you have reasonable expectations and do your research, you can probably find a niche you'll be happy with.

    It's not about being a guild-hopper. It's about making sure you're enjoying yourself. If your guild makes you unhappy, and it can't be fixed, you're better off finding a guild that WILL make you happy, not sticking it out and being miserable out of a misbegotten sense of obligation.

  7. #87
    If you have more facewalling a boss playing your preferred spec than killing the boss playing a spec you don't enjoy as much, then go for it.

    I don't really know anyone that love facewalling tough

    When I played the game I geared my Druid for all 4 roles and went as far as leveling a second druid on a second account (along with some other characters) so that people can use it if we can use the class. I'm not saying you should suffer doing something you don't enjoy so that your guild can succeed, but I can't see you being happy if you wipe over and over again because you don't have the right healer number/composition, so why not just do it?

    However, if you do find yourself playing your secondary role more than the role you signed up for, it really is time to ask yourself whether you should consider another guild or not. It is one thing swapping back and forth to help the guild, but an entirely different story if you consistently play your "offspec" though.
    Last edited by david0925; 2012-10-16 at 03:00 PM.

  8. #88
    Dreadlord zenga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethes View Post
    I'm sorry, your story helps the OP how exactly?
    I don't know if it will help him. I just replied to someone who made a statement that was relevant to the OP (multi speccing for pures vs hybrids, and that it's generally expected to play multiple specs/roles), and I've might added too much details to explain my reasoning why I think that statement was not (so) true. This is a discussion board last time I checked, and if you have a question then it's not always likely that 1 particular answer will solve all your troubles, but rather the multitude of different feedback.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethes View Post
    Secondly, your story only looks like show-off.
    I actually said that I was unable to play an off spec at the same level of my main spec, and that most good players that I know are unable to do that as well. If anything it was intended as a "show-down" (if that is a word).

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethes View Post
    You're absolutely right if you're saying that different roles require different mindsets, but that doesn't mean it's impossible (or nearly impossible). The only thing I can conclude as that these people you're talking about either didn't practice their other role enough or lack knowledge of that different role in those bossfights.
    Impossible is the theory, not able to play an offspec the reality. Yes I do think if they remove elemental shaman from the game and I have to reroll, that over time I can reach a certain level again in my new spec/role. But factors that I think that are as important as what you mentioned are time, fun and feeling for the class. I am unable to put my 'sentiments' about a class/spec aside when I don't enjoy it, and keep practising for hours.days.weeks just to reach the same level. Let alone that I should invest the time needed, which would either require me to shift gametime I enjoy now around or to add gametime. And feeling/mindset for a class/role: the ele shaman rotation feels very natural to me, whereas a dps dk with 1s gcds feels very counter intuitive to me (that feeling comes probably over time as well, and experience in previous games play most likely a role as well). To talk with cliches: some people prefer to take care of the group, others feel like leading the group, and others prefer to utterly destroy the opponent.

    Those are not factors in the theoretical approach whether it's possible or not to play an offspec/role at the same level as your main spec, but they are definitely factors for approaching the reality (in the end many have years played under their belt). I, and I think many players, can't just make abstraction of fun/time/mindset.

    So long story short: yes in theory all it takes is practise and knowledge, but in reality there is much more that determines why someone is currently (un)able to play an off spec/role at the same level as his/her main. It's unrealistic to expect that everyone is able to play a different offspec/role at the same level of their main.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethes View Post
    In my personal experience I don't find it very hard to learn a new class and play that at the same level as I play my holy paladin (regardless of how good or bad I might play that character). It just requires playing that character!
    That's possible. All I can say is that when I play an alt, I'm decent on it and pull my weight, but there is no way that I know all the little ins and outs that I know on my ele (that I'm not even playing perfect most of the time). There is in the end a good reason besides gear why many guilds their alt raid has slower progression than their main raid, even when they have the advantage of knowing how to kill it on their alts. And that happens on all levels.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethes View Post
    It's also common for guilds to have people swap around roles for fights that require less tanks/healers. Your guild might be different, but most semi-hardcore and hardcore guilds try to keep their roster as small as possible for better loot and raid opportunities and so they can keep the same team over and over again which is good for progression. Again, your experience might be different but that doesn't mean that Endus was wrong when he spoke about the general state of guild policy.
    That 'most' is just an assumption, really. There is as far as I know no data available, so it's based on the guilds you know and your experience. 1 year ago I did a pretty extensive search to find the 'perfect' guild for me, it took multiple days. I checked pretty much every guild that tends to kill content prior to major nerfs, English speaking and in the EU. I checked the summary/recruitment status on wowprogress and if it looked like something I checked their website, if it was still looking good I'd make a toon on their server and try to get a hold of an officer. And honestly my impression was totally different than what you are saying. Yes there are guilds that have it in their recruitment ad that you need to be able to play multiple specs, roles. But the majority were looking for a boomkin, an ele shaman, a holy paladin. Not for a holy paladin who can play ret as well (while that is sometimes mentioned as a plus). As said, it remains my impression as I wasn't counting. So your 'most' is basically your impression; which adds a different weight to the statement.
    Last edited by zenga; 2012-10-16 at 03:20 PM.

  9. #89
    Dreadlord Kenai's Avatar
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    Not wanting to completely change to a spec I did not like or was not comfortable with for a tier or longer was one of the main reasons I completely dropped serious progression raiding. I can understand the sentiment about rolling a class with only healing specs, because I'd probably do it too. I had to Boomkin a lot in DS because despite having some truly amazing DPS (our Rogue ranked on more than a few fights at the time), and my guild pulling all the stops, we could not meet some of those enrage timers and my fellow guildies could pick up the healing while I switched. Despite my opinion that I was and still am a completely mediocre Boomkin and DPS in general, at least I was capable of clicking my Heroic Will button correctly, not standing in stuff, and out-DPSing the tanks, which is all they asked for. I also blame Blizzard for designing many of the fights that way to favor roster/role switching and even make it "mandatory" on some fights, but that's another issue.

    Other people have said it already, but it really comes down to a matter of give and take for your guild and you. It's not unreasonable to be upset if your DPS are slacking and are somehow turning it into your problem as well by making you do extra DPS to make up for it (especially in NC), or if the loot rules in place are not favoring the extra effort you are making for them (guilds with a person actively duo speccing should be spoiling said person rotten because people playing two even somewhat well are exceedingly rare, let alone those that play both very well). However, if you really like your guild and you aren't bothered that much by switching, doing it for them can have a pretty "feel-good" side effect, especially when you can really tell how appreciative they are of what you are doing. If they aren't, I can imagine it being hard to muster the willpower.
    Last edited by Kenai; 2012-10-16 at 03:30 PM.
    Behind every invincible tank and pro DPS is an OOM healer, rolling their eyes.

  10. #90
    Dreadlord zenga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by david0925 View Post
    If you have more facewalling a boss playing your preferred spec than killing the boss playing a spec you don't enjoy as much, then go for it.

    I don't really know anyone that love facewalling tough

    When I played the game I geared my Druid for all 4 roles and went as far as leveling a second druid on a second account (along with some other characters) so that people can use it if we can use the class. I'm not saying you should suffer doing something you don't enjoy so that your guild can succeed, but I can't see you being happy if you wipe over and over again because you don't have the right healer number/composition, so why not just do it?

    However, if you do find yourself playing your secondary role more than the role you signed up for, it really is time to ask yourself whether you should consider another guild or not. It is one thing swapping back and forth to help the guild, but an entirely different story if you consistently play your "offspec" though.
    There is a lot of common sense in this answer, and sums up pretty much all there is to it.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Chonaire View Post
    I would personally never recruit anyone that does not play whatever I tell them to play.
    Sorry, but why would any actually want to play with you?

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