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  1. #241
    The Unstoppable Force Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    What I'm hoping it'll be, because there is a quest where Vol'jin has to go to Thrall, and Thralls responding quest is something like 'Because horde is family', suggesting ones like Thrall, Vol'jin, Baine and that are like family. So the hopes being that when Thrall returns, even if he isn't warchief, the horde will stand not by 1 single leader anymore, but as a union, the council of the horde, where all leaders are integral.
    Go ahead. It'll make "For the Alliance!" easier if all the leaders are in one building.

    Or will they be a Council in Name Only? Sure the books will have them meeting, but in game they'll just all sit in their own city being bored?
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  2. #242
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dokhidamo View Post
    Go ahead. It'll make "For the Alliance!" easier if all the leaders are in one building.

    Or will they be a Council in Name Only? Sure the books will have them meeting, but in game they'll just all sit in their own city being bored?
    They will remain rulers of there domains so all repsected leaders being held in there home cities. But there will be something in a quest showing all the leaders together in one place.

  3. #243
    Again, a Warchief is going to exist. It's too iconic to remove. The issue is the person behind the title. Is it a moderate character like Thrall that gives all the other races respect and the ability to govern themselves? Or is it like Garrosh, who simply uses his power to boss the other races around? It's not the position that's the issue, it's how the one in power utilizes it.

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by Grocalis View Post
    Again, a Warchief is going to exist. It's too iconic to remove. The issue is the person behind the title. Is it a moderate character like Thrall that gives all the other races respect and the ability to govern themselves? Or is it like Garrosh, who simply uses his power to boss the other races around? It's not the position that's the issue, it's how the one in power utilizes it.
    I'm pretty sure it will be like Thrall, again, the Horde cant stand two tyrants in a row, and besides, when the threat Wrathion is warning us comes, both Horde and Alliance will have to unite forces again to overcome it.

    I still think Thrall is the only one that makes sense.

  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    I'm pretty sure it will be like Thrall, again, the Horde cant stand two tyrants in a row, and besides, when the threat Wrathion is warning us comes, both Horde and Alliance will have to unite forces again to overcome it.

    I still think Thrall is the only one that makes sense.
    You act is if there is some risk of there being another tyrant. Whomever Blizzard decides to make as the next Warchief is have whatever personality that they choose to give him/her. If they want they can make Sylvansas Warchief and make her a super democratic reformer type if they want.

  6. #246
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyattbw09 View Post
    You act is if there is some risk of there being another tyrant. Whomever Blizzard decides to make as the next Warchief is have whatever personality that they choose to give him/her. If they want they can make Sylvansas Warchief and make her a super democratic reformer type if they want.
    If you haven't learned anything from Garrosh and his tyranical leadership, then you probably never will learn anything.
    I can say as someone who took time to read all past lore on the horde, I learned about the mistakes of the orcs past, why there leadership went under, why orcs keep repeating the same mistakes, and honestly, those who thought Garrosh was so great all were clueless about the hordes past and why it failed the way it did.

  7. #247
    Okay i figured it out, Koltira. Its out of nowhere, we weren't expecting it and he'll be strict with sylvannas because she was mean to him. Also with Blizzards logic they will probably implement this through a horde wide lottery for who will be Warchief, he will pick up his lottery ticket from the Goblin Kiwk e Mart and WAHLA! Warchief Koltira!
    "I hated hating Garrosh before it was cool."
    FOR THE HORDE!!!

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyattbw09 View Post
    You act is if there is some risk of there being another tyrant. Whomever Blizzard decides to make as the next Warchief is have whatever personality that they choose to give him/her. If they want they can make Sylvansas Warchief and make her a super democratic reformer type if they want.
    No, i am not acting as if there is a risk. He was asking if its going to be like Thrall or garrosh, if its like Garrosh then we have another tyrant, and the hrode cant survive two tyrants in a row.

    Besides, and now speaking about lore coherence, the Horde as a society doesnt know if the nextr oen will be a tyrant or not, unless the leader is someone that has already been leader and hasn't been a tyrant, whcih is Thrall.

    Now, some people dont care about lore having some logic, i do.

  9. #249
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    No, i am not acting as if there is a risk. He was asking if its going to be like Thrall or garrosh, if its like Garrosh then we have another tyrant, and the hrode cant survive two tyrants in a row.

    Besides, and now speaking about lore coherence, the Horde as a society doesnt know if the nextr oen will be a tyrant or not, unless the leader is someone that has already been leader and hasn't been a tyrant, whcih is Thrall.

    Now, some people dont care about lore having some logic, i do.
    Well as you can tell from these forums people don't have a clue about the lore and its history, they just ride whatever they are being told and think they know whats best.

    The orcs, and by extension the horde, has always been lead by the wrong kind of person in the past, Blackhand, and the manipulations of gul'dan was what dammed the orc race. Doomhammer might have seemed better but all doomhammer did was steer an out of control locomotive into a crash. The blackrock clan lead by blackhands sons have them making bargins with the black dragonflight which lead to its downfall, and now Garrosh is following his his daddies footsteps, peppered with blackhand and his mentality, showing he wants to dominate all, at the expense of anyone be thinks below him.

    Thrall was the only difference and the only decent leader the horde has had, because he put the horde as one first, lead them to freedom and had the horde build up strength when it was at its weakest. The horde became something different as a result, not a dark testiment to the legion or warlocks, but a great assemblage of noble savage warriors and shamans and others. Thrall was the only difference, because he was different to all other orc leaders, and it worked because the orcs as a race are there own worst enemy.

  10. #250
    i think vol'jin or baine would make a great warchief it would actually give me something to kind of be proud of when im playing my horde characters.

    for my alliance characters i can always be like "FOR LO'GOSH @_@"

    but right now my horde characters are like "meh guess i gotta do stuff"
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
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  11. #251
    The Unstoppable Force Wildtree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Interesting. so Thrall is stepping up to come to Vol'jin and the Darkspears aid, and even killing Kor'kron to protect the darkspears.
    Technically plausible. The Kor'kron are the warchiefs elite guards. Who is the warchief? Well, strictly spoken, Thrall is still the Warchief. Garrosh was handed the task over by Thrall temporarily. From there, Thrall could see the Kor'kron's actions as treason. They don't act in HIS and with that in the Horde's interest.. So in his eyes, he sure can kill traitors.

    There's no ingame event yet that passed the power over to Garrosh entirely and for good.
    It's therefore absolutely legit to call on him for aid.

    I still consider Nazgrim an option not impossible. We've had him in our face now for 2 expansions.Very actively involved on the front lines. Experienced General.
    Just something the Orcs need. And he didn't really show any cruelty either.

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    If you haven't learned anything from Garrosh and his tyranical leadership, then you probably never will learn anything.
    I can say as someone who took time to read all past lore on the horde, I learned about the mistakes of the orcs past, why there leadership went under, why orcs keep repeating the same mistakes, and honestly, those who thought Garrosh was so great all were clueless about the hordes past and why it failed the way it did.
    Yeah because it is not like Thrall held any sort of adoration for the Old Horde and its leadership. Me thinks your lore is not quick as sharp you like to think it is.

  13. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by kingriku View Post
    Okay i figured it out, Koltira.
    Do not mention him. not even in jest. I despise this character so much. Hopefully Sylvanas' lackies have made frilly mince meat out of him after all this time.

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    Technically plausible. The Kor'kron are the warchiefs elite guards. Who is the warchief? Well, strictly spoken, Thrall is still the Warchief. Garrosh was handed the task over by Thrall temporarily. From there, Thrall could see the Kor'kron's actions as treason. They don't act in HIS and with that in the Horde's interest.. So in his eyes, he sure can kill traitors.

    There's no ingame event yet that passed the power over to Garrosh entirely and for good.
    It's therefore absolutely legit to call on him for aid.

    I still consider Nazgrim an option not impossible. We've had him in our face now for 2 expansions.Very actively involved on the front lines. Experienced General.
    Just something the Orcs need. And he didn't really show any cruelty either.
    Nazgrim is my favorite option becoming higher in rank with each expansion. Although alot say he is a warmonger there are two quotes he says when he is pissed:
    A new land, he says. Paint it red, he says. *Sigh*
    Blood in the soil, makes for more toil! Tell the bloody earth, a new Horde to give birth!

    It seems to me he is more tired of fighting and killing then Garrosh, he say's these whens he is pissed so its when he really lets you see he truely wants change?
    "I hated hating Garrosh before it was cool."
    FOR THE HORDE!!!

  15. #255
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    Technically plausible. The Kor'kron are the warchiefs elite guards. Who is the warchief? Well, strictly spoken, Thrall is still the Warchief. Garrosh was handed the task over by Thrall temporarily. From there, Thrall could see the Kor'kron's actions as treason. They don't act in HIS and with that in the Horde's interest.. So in his eyes, he sure can kill traitors.

    There's no ingame event yet that passed the power over to Garrosh entirely and for good.
    It's therefore absolutely legit to call on him for aid.

    I still consider Nazgrim an option not impossible. We've had him in our face now for 2 expansions.Very actively involved on the front lines. Experienced General.
    Just something the Orcs need. And he didn't really show any cruelty either.
    Thrall isn't the warchief anymore, get the facts right first. That old belief that he was letting Garrosh stand in as his temp has long since past if you read the shattering and learn the fact he put aside his mantle, thus is passed to Garrosh. Yet Thrall is still the founder of this horde we play as now, and his presence with the orcs is still strong, as many orcs would still regard him highly (unlike the warsong orcs and garrosh's followers who only regard Garrosh as there leader - they will probably all die at the end of mists).

    These facts are held in the lore books which as, if not more canon then anything ingame (since any lore ingame is spoiled by the players own avatar getting in the way all the time)

  16. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    Technically plausible. The Kor'kron are the warchiefs elite guards. Who is the warchief? Well, strictly spoken, Thrall is still the Warchief. Garrosh was handed the task over by Thrall temporarily. From there, Thrall could see the Kor'kron's actions as treason. They don't act in HIS and with that in the Horde's interest.. So in his eyes, he sure can kill traitors.

    There's no ingame event yet that passed the power over to Garrosh entirely and for good.
    It's therefore absolutely legit to call on him for aid.

    I still consider Nazgrim an option not impossible. We've had him in our face now for 2 expansions.Very actively involved on the front lines. Experienced General.
    Just something the Orcs need. And he didn't really show any cruelty either.
    The issue I have with Nazgrim is that he often tends to be a sort of Garrosh-lite. While he does tend to act a bit more level-headed then Garrosh would in his situation, he's still an unapologetic conqueror who has yet to do anything to really distance himself from the party line. Unless his characterization does a complete 180 (which would be hard to pull off convincingly in the time we have) we'd end up replacing one warrior-centric Orc with another . So even if Nazgrim isn't quite as crazy, that's just asking for trouble.

    Still, I could see him being a major figure in the rebellion when the time comes. Maybe his time with the Pandaren over at Eastwind Refuge rubs off on him a bit and he starts seeing the war against the Alliance in a new light. Then perhaps he's given an unconscionable order, and is pushed firmly into the rebel camp.
    Roleplaying, hardcore Raiding, running LFR on the occasional weekend, PvPing, rolling alts, achievement hunting, pet battling, or just enacting an endless series of whims, I don't care how you play WoW. Just as long as you have fun doing it.

  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by Falrinn View Post
    The issue I have with Nazgrim is that he often tends to be a sort of Garrosh-lite. While he does tend to act a bit more level-headed then Garrosh would in his situation, he's still an unapologetic conqueror who has yet to do anything to really distance himself from the party line. Unless his characterization does a complete 180 (which would be hard to pull off convincingly in the time we have) we'd end up replacing one warrior-centric Orc with another . So even if Nazgrim isn't quite as crazy, that's just asking for trouble.

    Still, I could see him being a major figure in the rebellion when the time comes. Maybe his time with the Pandaren over at Eastwind Refuge rubs off on him a bit and he starts seeing the war against the Alliance in a new light. Then perhaps he's given an unconscionable order, and is pushed firmly into the rebel camp.
    Thats what the orc leader / Warchief is supposed to be like, just because we had a totally insane leader that was warmongering and killed anyone doesn't mean we will replace with someone who is afraid of war or wants peace. The Horde would be viewed as too weak in that case, but i think he will definetly be with us leading a large part of the assualt against Garrosh and it will shock him, maybe even make him realize what hes been doing isn't for the good of his people anymore.
    "I hated hating Garrosh before it was cool."
    FOR THE HORDE!!!

  18. #258
    High Overlord Crimsonfiend76's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grocalis View Post
    I don't really see them going so far as to form a complete council government. The "Warchief" is too iconic to remove. More then likely whoever does take the mantle will be like Thrall was, diplomatic and taking into consideration the other races in the faction, rather then Garrosh, who just says "I own you" and makes them do whatever he pleases.

    This is one of the reasons Vol'jin would make a good one. His ideals are very close to Thrall.

    As for Thrall, I do see him coming back, but in the same way Malfurion returned to the Night Elves. He will act like an adviser and help guide the new Warchief a bit more hands-on to make sure it does not become another Garrosh situation, but will not officially join in such a capacity that he is at war with the Alliance again on a personal level.
    i actually think these scenario makes more sense, only i can see Baine (who is much younger than Vol'jin, and more inexperienced) who could use Thrall's guidance to lead the horde to greatness, plus with Thrall back in an advisory position politically, and still be the spiritual leader of the horde, should ease whatever apprehension the remaining orcs would have about following a non-orc warchief.

  19. #259
    Herald of the Titans Azgraal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowbathed View Post
    I'm calling Rexxar
    No chance in hell. Not unless blizzard wants to piss on their own lore, one more time.

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  20. #260
    I would like to see Vol'jin as Warchief. However, I think their are greater plans for him. Incoming long post, sorry, but I've put thought into this.

    Looking at recent Troll lore (Rise of the Zandalari onward) we see that the Zandalari Prophet Zul/Rastakhan has had a vision of a united Troll Empire, once again. However, of the Troll leaders shown Vol'Jin alone defys the will of the Zandalari.

    Instead of just settling back as leader of the Darkspear tribe and letting the Zandalari and other Trolls unite he plots to overthrow them. Working with the Humans, Booty Bay Goblins, Nessingwary Jr.'s hunters, and players, he pushes the Gurubashi out od Stranglethorn and back into Zul'Garub where their leaders are defeated. In the Ghostlands he unites the Farstriders and Silver Covenant against the Amani, and with Player help attacks Zul'Aman defeating their leaders.

    The Drakari of Zul'Dark havce sacraficed their Loa and have largly been defeated by Players. It was also implied that the Sandfury of Zul'Farak have been defeated. Except for the Zandalari the remaining troll clans either have strong Horde ties (Raventusk), are all but exterminated (Mossflayer), or Players have been attacking them for years.

    It's been hinted that we will be attacking the Zandalari directly soon. Vol'Jin will most likely be the leader of this assault. The end will have to be the death of the Prophet Zul and Rastakhan, and probably the death (again) of Hakarr. Since the Raventusk tribe is friendly with the Horde, it would be logical for them to assist in the defeat of the Zandalari.

    But what would happen ofter the defeat of the Zandalari? Typically in warlike cultures, like the Trolls, when you defeat a group you gain everything that was theirs, or kill off the entire group. Vol'Jin doesn't seem like the type to exterminate an entire group without reason, there are many civilians in ZG and ZA (yellow mobs). This would mean if Vol'Jin was leading the attack on the Zandalari, in effect he could become the next Rastakhan.

    With the Zandalari effort to unite the tribes (and at least the Drakarri following them) this would put Vol'Jin as the leader of a new troll Empire. So Vol'Jin will be too busy leading theTrolls into a Golden Age (fulfilling Zul's vision), as possible allies with the Horde, and using the combine might and knowledge of the Trolls to help overthrow Garrosh.

    tl;dr Vol'Jin won't be Warchief, instead he will be the Rastakhan of the Troll Empire.

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