Oh i went to stonetalon, and no he has no honor. He want his commanders to have the honor he doesnt have. he makes a massacre to a sinking alliance boat even when theyw ere no threat when he is returning from Northrend. Then he takes the kor'kron to try to massacre the quilboars only to almost get killed and almost losing Gorehowl, then he uses a bomb to destroy Theramore even when he killed the commander for doing such a thing.
he only has "honor" when that "honor" doesnt stop him from killing someone, which means he doesnt really have any honor.
And glory? No, he didnt brought Glory to the Horde either, he only brought shame, the same shame people like Gul'dan and Blackhand brought.
About land gained, yes if you took the times when Thrall didnt even tried to gain land Garrosh would have won more, even when he lost it after. The fact ios that Thrall gained A LOT more land than garrosh while he was Warchief. You are just handpicking a timeframe you choose just to make it look Garrosh is better than he is
Last edited by Crashdummy; 2012-10-16 at 07:41 PM.
Let me give you a little info here, but before Thrall and the events during WC3 and WoW, the orcs had nothing. Zip, Zero, Ziltch. The vast majority were imprisoned. During his time, he claimed Durotar, constructed Orgrimmar, established near complete control of the Barrens, and rebuild a scattering of camps around the world, from Grom'gol to Kargath. Even not counting what he gained for the orcs themselves, he was also the one that brought in the Darkspear, the Tauren, the Forsaken, and later, it was by his word the Blood Elves joined. Even the Goblins, though they came in during a time Garrosh was Warchief, joined because of Thrall.
Without Thrall and the Horde he established, Garrosh would be still running a little camp of dopes in Nagrand crying his eyes out while the rest of his people on Azeroth squandered in camps without any race willing to befriend them. The strength of Garrosh's Horde was built off the backbone that Thrall established, and couldn't exist without it.
And you dare say he gained more land, a bunch of land he only succeeded in squandering half of it away.
Last edited by Grocalis; 2012-10-16 at 07:53 PM.
My money's on Thrall pulling a Jay Leno with a small army of shiesty goblin lawyers at his back. He always was a glory hog.
Even then, it would still be false, because the five years he spread out his forces across a large chunk of the planet still count as "post RTS", and that's not counting all the land he took during the game, like all the regions he took in Outland.
Let me ask you. What did Garrosh actually gain? You go to any of the places in the game where it looks like he has a foothold and either the Alliance has one just as strong, or he lost i in extra material, like the novels. Azshara? Oh that's great, too bad the Goblin poisoned it and now you are forced to get water sent from Mulgore just to make sure the orcs don't go thirsty.
lol @ "Garrosh gained more land than Thrall" argument.
The only thing Garrosh conquered was Ashenvale and with high costs, in Wolfheart you see his entire army routing because Varian and the Worgen crushed him. Even Garrosh had to be saved by a rampaging Magnataur when Varian had him disarmed and was ready to kill him. Azshara wasn't really Alliance territory so i wouldn't say he "gained" it.
Thrall gave the Horde a new home, freed them from the Alliance and brought the spirits and honor back to the Orcs.
English is not my first language, feel free to point out any mistake so i can keep learning.
Idk it's too predictable.
I would rather see Baine lead, irregardless if he is experienced or not. He's young, respects the essence of the Horde through his father and is open to new ideas. Vol'jin seems like a Thrall 2.0 without the super worldy powers of Thrall.
Vol'jin isn't intimidating as he cowardly steps away from Garrosh wrath n insults, not up to to the challenge and shows a lack of honor. Vol'jin can't be Warchief, Varian Wrynn would stomp him into the ground, bad for morale, horde needs someone that oozes power, like Rexxar.
Also, he is a race-traitor, betrayed the whole Troll species in Cataclysm, can't even side with his own species how is anybody able to trust him in the long run within the Horde? How would you feel about someone who turned against the human race to side with aliens?...
He has no qualities that impress me, he is the worst candidate ever.
Gief Engineers some love for Cata, clouds (I don't have gathering prof) n a Yellow Submarine water-mount!
Your calling it wrong...! A troll would never be Warchief for one, that's why Thrall didn't choose him its just not right and trolls don't have good leadership values in my eyes I never once heard/seen them do the right thing ever to advance their species and controlling a whole military faction? They can hardly control their own members!
Please...can't he just get a new model because he is finally going to be doing something important, doing something worthy?
He wasn't even elected leader of the Darkspear...he was given the title because his father died
Shall I be dramatic and say "You haven't heard the last of me,"?
(L)ive, (I)nfluence, (F)ight, (E)njoy
The Trolls would of tried to take over Azeroth and the Orcs would be in the way. If he sided with the Trolls he would be a traitor to the Horde and to Azeroth itself, even Thrall would be upset about this. Vol'jin doesn't respond to Garrosh because he cares about his people's well being and rather not endanger them unnecessarily. Put yourself in his position and you have to deal with some asshat who could destroy your people if you tried standing up to him. Would you have the courage to do so? I sure as hell wouldn't bear that burden of being the cause of my people's deaths. I'd say Vol'Jin has a lot of patience to deal with the crap he has to take.
That should be a good quality in itself, he's willing to take the blows, bide his time and wait for the right moment when Garrosh and his Horde who....yeah I don't want to get infracted for saying it are vulnerable. Vol'Jin may be a Shadow Hunter and not stand up to Garrosh a lot but when you're dealing with a tyrant...you don't want to stand up to one unless you know what the heck you are in for.
Vol'Jin is wise in not saying anything.
When Thrall has to restrain him at the tournament ground? Telling him basically he better stfu now for the whole time, to not embarrass him and anyone else of the Horde?
Or the famous duel that got interrupted by the attack on Org from the scourge?
Garrosh was a rather pitiful character during TBC. At the end of TBC he rebelled against Thrall, his mentor. During WotLK he basically screwed everything up one can do wrong, and Saurfang was on the constant move to fix the damage. Starting already with how Garrosh greeted the arriving heroes. He outright insulted you on the spot.
Saurfang basically told you to just ignore him, he's stressed out...
Then comes Cata, and again.. The glorious vice-warchief manages to lose his entire fleet in Twilight Highlands, due to a stupid order no one clear in mind would give.
Garrosh is a failure from start to end. Nothing short of that.
I think Thrall will come back as leader of the orcs, but not leader of the Horde.
vol'jin did recover the troll isles for the horde.. as well as take back undercity while garrosh didnt do much other than foolishly attack deathwing headon in the twilight flight and kill Cairne..
vol'jin also helped the humans fight the zandalari back in 4.2
its possible that once garrosh gets either killed or redeemed by the raid.. he might step down.. but as Orgrimmar being the capital and an orc-based city.. its unlikely that a troll would become leader.. and less unlikely for a blood elf or Sylvanas.