Windsong for Prot?

[Deleted]

Was just reading through the update/post on Windsong and Elemental Force and I was left wondering... Has anyone tried this new version of Windsong in a Protadin Sim? Colossus seems really weak and the Mastery / Haste procs on Windsong do seem interesting.

Any thoughts?

[Rivin]

From what I've heard, Windsong and Dancing Steel are the best enchants for Prot right now. River's Song is okay, but dodge isn't a very good stat, and Colossus doesn't absorb enough to make much difference.

[Drfireburns]

I would definitely go Windsong...

[Sasume]

I came to the same conclusion last night after Ook's sword finally dropped for me.

That absorb from colossus is crappy and we are reforging out of dodge so why would we want an enchant that procs it?

[Seani]

Mastery as an on hit effect doesent seem very useful. Half of the mastery bennifet for protection Paladins is the increase to active mitigation. If the effect procs randomly you dont have that consistant increase to the active mitigation tool. I think as an on hit effect dodge is our best bet.

[Rivin]

Mastery as an on hit effect doesent seem very useful. Half of the mastery bennifet for protection Paladins is the increase to active mitigation. If the effect procs randomly you dont have that consistant increase to the active mitigation tool. I think as an on hit effect dodge is our best bet.

But you still have the benefit of mastery (and haste) while the enchant is up. And unlike the tiny amount of dodge you get from River's Song, the mastery and haste from Windsong are guaranteed to be useful while they're up.

Furthermore, given that dodge has much, much steeper diminishing returns than parry, you'll probably get far more raw avoidance from Dancing Steel's proc (1650 strength is roughly equal to 1534.5 parry rating) than from 1650 dodge, even if the dodge procs more often.

[Fhi]

Mastery as an on hit effect doesent seem very useful. Half of the mastery bennifet for protection Paladins is the increase to active mitigation. If the effect procs randomly you dont have that consistant increase to the active mitigation tool. I think as an on hit effect dodge is our best bet.

That is quite true, but remember too that mastery increases your block %, so it is not entirely unused while you're not actively mitigating.

[Deleted]

We managed to get Elegon down today on the second try (enrage at 0.3% on the first one) so I didn't get a big enough sample compared to the vast number of wipes but, overall, it did seem better. The mastery procs are always useful since they affect block chance and Bastion of Glory and the haste buff is also very useful due to Sanctity of Battle. Both of them were a welcome sight on our tries on Will 'cuz that guy hits like a train.

[MerinPally]

Will take a look and update the guide accordingly later. Right now I am going to try get 5 hours sleep before my lecture begins. I have lectures from 9-12 and labs from 1-5, FML -.-

[Seani]

Dancing steel is one parry though if I remember correctly. The windsong proc will effect your highest stat, so it will not effect mastery and haste just whichever is highest. I do realize that we will be getting some benifet from the mastery, but in terms of total mitigation the dodge will be 100% mitigation and will most likely not be subject to diminishing returns if were reforging into hit, expertise, and mastery.

[Kaeth]

The windsong proc will effect your highest stat, so it will not effect mastery and haste just whichever is highest.

Windsong doesn't select your highest secondary stat; it picks one of its possible buffs at random when it procs. When in ret spec, I've occasionally had a double proc with Mastery and Crit. Yeah, I'm definitely not stacking those on my gear.

[saintlyn]

Windsong is the answer!

[Rivin]

Dancing steel is one parry though if I remember correctly. The windsong proc will effect your highest stat, so it will not effect mastery and haste just whichever is highest. I do realize that we will be getting some benifet from the mastery, but in terms of total mitigation the dodge will be 100% mitigation and will most likely not be subject to diminishing returns if were reforging into hit, expertise, and mastery.

What do you mean by "one parry"? It's 1650 strength or agility, whichever is higher, and strength converts into parry at a rate equal to 93% of parry rating (thus, 1534.5 parry from Dancing Steel). Both Dancing Steel and River's Song would suffer from diminishing returns, so Dancing Steel may math out to be more overall avoidance due to parry's considerably more lenient diminishing returns.

And yeah, as Kaeth said, Windsong just picks a stat at random. Dual-wielders see all three buffs up often.

[Seani]

Alright I was thinking about another enchant im sorry. Im still going to have to go with the dodge on hit enchant. I think if you run the numbers you will see that dodge is the best.

[Kanadei]

Alright I was thinking about another enchant im sorry. Im still going to have to go with the dodge on hit enchant. I think if you run the numbers you will see that dodge is the best.

Without having run the numbers yourself how can you say this with any degree of certainty?

[Plwmar]

Been using windsong since day one.Go for it.Mastery proc is good and haste helps your crusader strikes get off cd a bit faster.Colossus is a JOKE and I don't think dodge helps that much tbh (is about a 2% increase....yeah awesome...) when with windsong you can get all 3 procs up at the same time.

[Rivin]

Been using windsong since day one.Go for it.Mastery proc is good and haste helps your crusader strikes get off cd a bit faster.Colossus is a JOKE and I don't think dodge helps that much tbh (is about a 2% increase....yeah awesome...) when with windsong you can get all 3 procs up at the same time.

River's Song is 1.86% dodge before diminishing returns and Dancing Steel is 1.73% parry before diminishing returns. Yeah...they're really not worth using at all when we have a mastery/haste proc enchant.

[Deleted]

dancing steel is also more attack power which both creates bigger wogs and bigger sacred sheilds bubbles as well as more indirect healing through battle healer glyph ( if your using it) in addition to the parry.
I would go with the dancing steel IF it has a decent uptime on a tank as with being a pally and spending 1/2 your globals not using melle attacks but spells which can posibbly ( and likely knowing blizzard) not proc the enchant uptimes might be a bit low.

[Giev]

A little OT, but the static 200 exp from living steel weapon chain is appealing.

[Rivin]

dancing steel is also more attack power which both creates bigger wogs and bigger sacred sheilds bubbles as well as more indirect healing through battle healer glyph ( if your using it) in addition to the parry.
I would go with the dancing steel IF it has a decent uptime on a tank as with being a pally and spending 1/2 your globals not using melle attacks but spells which can posibbly ( and likely knowing blizzard) not proc the enchant uptimes might be a bit low.

Dancing Steel only procs on melee attacks (so for Prot, Crusader Strike, Hammer of the Righteous, Judgment, Shield of the Righteous, and auto-attacks), and the amount of attack power you gain from it is insignificant compared to Vengeance. It's not a bad choice, though--definitely superior to River's Song and probably Colossus as well.

Windsong can proc off of anything and procs more often in general, though. I think in comparison it's going to be far superior for paladin tanks than any of the other enchants. The weapon chain didn't even cross my mind, though; that would be a decent alternative if you're struggling with expertise capping.