1. #1
    Field Marshal Dytzy's Avatar
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    Pulling: As a frost DK

    I was just wondering what you guys thought the best way to open on (most) fights would be?

    What I tend to do is this:

    Army of the Dead, Pre-pot (Potion of Mogu power +4000 STR), Outbreak to apply diseases, Pop my synapse springs (Engineering glove tinker), pop my pillar of frost, and pop my raise dead. Then I go into my single target rotation for boss fights. Save my empowered run weapon and portion for lust.

    Also if the fight will last longer then 5 minutes then I burn all my runes and most of my runic power asap on the pull, and I use Empowered run weapon then go into normal single target rotation.

    The biggest thing that I am not sure about is whether it is more beneficial to pop my pre-potion before or after army. Popping it before would give the army stronger stats but I would lose the cast time of army of the potion on the pull. Thanks!

  2. #2
    Before.
    macro all your cd's aside from ERW, hit that and then army

  3. #3
    Herald of the Titans Varyk's Avatar
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    If you outbreak after you Pillar/Synpase your Outbreak/dots will 'snapshot' your increased attack power and do more damage.

  4. #4
    It always used to be after, and I'd be quite surprised if that changed. If you pop potion and maybe even other cooldowns before AotD you lose the entire channel time + moving in on the boss, which will be upwards to 10 seconds probably. AotD is a lot better than it used to be, but I wont believe its worth that loss unless someone brings up some nice math.

  5. #5
    Mechagnome Italiandk's Avatar
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    Raise Dead and AotD will scale continuously with AP, haste and crit so there is no need to pop AotD/Raise Dead after CDs.

    It's better you cast AotD before the pull so the 3 runes you spent for the cast will be back as soon as the boss will be in melee range.

  6. #6
    Do not use Army of the Dead to pull, it is a Defensive CD now. The small damage increase you get is not worth the defensive stats it provides during a heavy damage phase.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by crowdplzr View Post
    Do not use Army of the Dead to pull, it is a Defensive CD now. The small damage increase you get is not worth the defensive stats it provides during a heavy damage phase.
    You're kidding, right? 1m Dmg is "a small damage increase"? You will start most fights with 200k+ DPS and it's "a small damage increase"? And what kind of heavy damage phase do you consider worth popping AotD for? You will LOSE so much DPS during the channel that it's not worth the time channeling it.

  8. #8
    I did not read the title I thought when he said the pull, he ment he was pulling as the tank. Blood

  9. #9
    Immortal Soisoisoi's Avatar
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    AotD (3-4sec before to allow runes to come back)
    Pre-pot (as close to pull as possible)
    PoF/Trinket/Engi tinker
    Outbreak (Can Outbreak at the same time as PoF macro).
    I usually still wait for FC procc and then Raise Dead, though I don't think you need to any more as they scale automatically.
    Last edited by Soisoisoi; 2012-10-16 at 04:45 PM.

  10. #10
    Mechagnome Italiandk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crowdplzr View Post
    I did not read the title I thought when he said the pull, he ment he was pulling as the tank. Blood
    You didn't read the post aswell since Pillar of Frost doesn't sound like a blood ability

  11. #11
    But if you use Menagerie instead of the non-aggro Glyph, then you can't use it pre-pull...

    :P
    Winterblade 90 Worgen Death Knight
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Treelife View Post
    AotD (3-4sec before to allow runes to come back)
    Pre-pot (as close to pull as possible)
    PoF/Trinket/Engi tinker
    Outbreak (Can Outbreak at the same time as PoF macro).
    I usually still wait for FC procc and then Raise Dead, though I don't think you need to any more as they scale automatically.
    Only player pets (which a Risen Ghoul is not) update their stats dynamically in accordance with their master, so you'll still need to wait for an FC proc before summoning your Ghoul as Frost. (or Gargoyle as Unholy)
    Vereesa of Paragon, formerly of Depraved
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  13. #13
    Immortal Soisoisoi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vereesà View Post
    Only player pets (which a Risen Ghoul is not) update their stats dynamically in accordance with their master, so you'll still need to wait for an FC proc before summoning your Ghoul as Frost. (or Gargoyle as Unholy)
    Didn't think it did, but EJ is saying it does, and someone else above said it did. *shrug*

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Vereesà View Post
    Only player pets (which a Risen Ghoul is not) update their stats dynamically in accordance with their master, so you'll still need to wait for an FC proc before summoning your Ghoul as Frost. (or Gargoyle as Unholy)
    Player pets have always updated their stats dynamically. It wasn't until recently that guardians (like Risen Ghoul, the new Feral Spirits, etc.) do as well.
    It's could've and would've. Not could of and would of. Not sure when "of" started meaning "have," but everyone who thinks it does needs to go back to school.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Kio View Post
    Player pets have always updated their stats dynamically. It wasn't until recently that guardians (like Risen Ghoul, the new Feral Spirits, etc.) do as well.
    I was under the same impression as Vereesa. When was this change made?

  16. #16
    The change was made in 5.0. All pets and guardians now dynamically update with the player's stats. No need to wait for heroism before using the gargoyle, etc.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Seref View Post
    But if you use Menagerie instead of the non-aggro Glyph, then you can't use it pre-pull...

    :P
    Why do you think that? They dont just run off to find targets themselves, you know. Did have a few facepulls summoning army while less than 10 yards behind the rest of the raid, summoning one straight towards the boss >.> Slightly annoying, but eh. Can work around that.

  18. #18
    Immortal Soisoisoi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hunty View Post
    Why do you think that? They dont just run off to find targets themselves, you know. Did have a few facepulls summoning army while less than 10 yards behind the rest of the raid, summoning one straight towards the boss >.> Slightly annoying, but eh. Can work around that.
    Start facing towards the boss, then turn 90* right after the first 2-3 spawn and it should make sure they don't go out in front of you. Had to learn that for Hagara. >.>

  19. #19
    I feel potting before casting AotD is better, though I have no real math to back this up. I have experienced, however, that potting before an army gives me enough time to squeeze out Gargoyle, DoT application and all my Scourge Strikes/Festering strikes/Death Coils before the potion runs out. For the 4 seconds after this I don't have anything to press, so it doesn't matter if my pot is up or down for this little window of time. (I don't play frost in PvE, though I assume your thesis applies to unholy aswell)

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