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  1. #21
    Field Marshal Chudz's Avatar
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    Looks like your right! I didn't notice that before it taking the full damage of stagger as an absorb doh!

    I think we are still taking a bit more damage though if you try to take away the stagger damage its something like 150k to my math might be wrong.

  2. #22
    Brewmaster cyqu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boombrew View Post
    Hey guys

    My guild just got to 6/6 last night and I just want to share some information with my fellow brewmaster tanks out there!
    Will of the Emperor hits like a MOTHER ******. My first thought was "omfg I must have been in the wrong stance, because something is just WRONG here". But the reality is that these guys just hits really, really hard!

    I went there with my usual build (Hit/expertise to softcap > haste > crit > mastery)
    The first 2-3 tries I was getting smashed hard. I thought about going out and gem/reforge for stamina/mastery, but I was being to stubbon. I wanted to believe that my current build could handle this.

    After 2-3 more tries we actually got a kill.
    My experience was that as long as I had a really good uptime on shuffle, timed my CD rotation really carefully and cleared the stagger stacks, I actually wasnt taking more damage than our druidtank and the healing on me was fine (even though it was hard and my hp was dancing from time to time). You need to be wise on your CD´s and selfhealing. I know that some will say that you always need to, but on this fight its just a must, which makes it quite an entertaining fight. I really liked it. ´

    So dont listen to your guildies, shouting at you "ROLL DK/PALA/WARRIOR".
    Brewmasters are badass and we handle massive damage like this!

    I just wanted to share this with you

    /Boombrew
    they hit pretty hard on all tanks, though tank deaths were never an issue for us

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Kamadenhu View Post
    There are some funky things going on with how Brewmaster damage is logged though. If you look closely, it counts ALL damage staggered as TAKEN. It splits it up if you look at details between absorbed, or purified, and what actually hit.

    On recount for the same fight, my prot pally was showing as having taken over twice the damage I did. I don't thing anyone has developed good tools for parsing brewmaster damage yet. World of logs also counts Stagger damage as damage done by me and to me.
    Very important point. Logs are screwed for us atm!

  4. #24
    I don't understand why mastery would be a better effective health stat over haste. I mean all mastery does is increase staggering physical damage right? But if you are stacking mastery over haste that means you will be keeping shuffle up less (which reduces stagger by 20%) and also means you will be purifying less.

  5. #25
    People tend to vastly overestimate how much haste affects uptime of Shuffle. To gain 1 extra Blackout Kick per minute in the best case, you need a little over 12% haste, or about 5100 rating. In reality, it's not even that much of a benefit, since you can maintain more than 83% uptime of Blackout Kick with baseline haste if you're using Keg Smash and Power Strikes properly, so adding an extra Blackout Kick doesn't give you its full benefit.

    The bulk of the benefit of haste is increased Gift of the Ox and Elusive Brew procs.

  6. #26
    To get a better feel of relative damage intake from world of logs, look at "healing taken" instead of "damage taken". In that log the pally took more healing than the monk.

  7. #27
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chudz View Post
    I think we are still taking a bit more damage though if you try to take away the stagger damage its something like 150k to my math might be wrong.
    You also have to factor in Guard which I believe is being counted wrong as well. Gauging actual BrM performance compared to other tanks is not an easy job.

    I've only done LFR last night and was really surprised at how much damage that fight dishes out even in "easy mode". The combo stuff was hard to avoid by sidestepping alone so I can see momentum coming in handy as a Roll would guarantee I got out of the way.

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

  8. #28
    Interesting, I'm glad I stumbled upon this thread. I thought it was just me! I was looking over my guild's logs from this week's Will kill, I took 33mil damage and our Prot Warrior only took 17mil. I had extremely good Shuffle uptime (90.2%), great Guard and Elusive Brew usage, and I was still getting just plain wrecked.

    Similar issues with last week's kill, too. I took 32mil, Prot War took 18mil. My Shuffle uptime was even better with this one, at 95.1%. So, I'm relieved to see it's not just me, but disappointed to see this is sort of a universal problem. It just feels shitty to be playing extremely well and not have it make a lick of a difference. Here's a link to my log, if anyone cares to look.

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-pq...?s=6920&e=7588

  9. #29
    World of Logs has a big "bug" with Brewmaster damage reporting. Since it reports absorbed damage as damage taken, and Stagger technically works as an absorb effect, it's basically showing the damage you would have taken had you not staggered any physical attacks (but still took the stagger DoT).

    To get the real number (and yes, this is non-trivial):
    Go to details for your monk.
    Step 1: Go to "Damage by Spell". Under "Damage Taken", record total damage taken.
    Step 2: Add up the total amount absorbed.
    Step 3: Go to "Healing by Spell". Under "Healing taken", add up all the yellow numbers in the Hits - Total column.
    Step 4: Your real damage taken is: Total damage taken(from step 1) - Total absorbed(from step 2) + external absorbs(from step 3).

  10. #30

    Having Trouble on Will

    Hey guys, my guild is just getting to Will now and we seem to be having some trouble. I've been plugging and analyzing logs all morning, and I seem to be missing something. I have just as much Shuffle up-time as any of the other logs that have been linked on this page, but my Elusive Brew seems to be consistently lower then the other's often by a good 20%+. I'm trying to see what the issue is, I'm following the exact same stat priority as any other I've seen posted here, but I'm generating significantly less stacks of the brew. I can't post a log yet but my shuffle uptime is around 82% while Elusive Brew is around 61% (I'll post a log when the site allows me to). My healers tell me I'm far too spiky damage wise, yet I'm taking far less damage then our Druid tank (and yes I know the Brewmaster logs are bugged) and still dropping. Any suggestions on a change in play style or stat weights? I love the class and the style but we seem to keep having issues with just the nature of the damage and mitigation in general. I really don't want to give this class up and move to a more 'conventional' tank so any help you guys have would be appreciated!
    Last edited by The Madgod; 2012-11-15 at 06:06 PM.

  11. #31
    Yeah to echo these people....we one-shot them actually. The key I found was:

    1) don't get hit by the arcs so you don't get the -% armor debuff

    2) keep attacking him so that you have EB, shuffle, and guard with power guard x3 ready . that should bring you through it.

    3) choose avert harm and use it. it's only got 1.5 min cd. i saved fort brew for gas phase.

  12. #32
    Sorry, I don't know what that picture is supposed to mean... And in response to Caeth, I have been doing that but I can't seem to stay up during moments of spikes.

  13. #33
    I think it's the color and formatting of your post that caused people to post that photo. Wall of text + center alignment + orange = bleh.

    Anyway, when I tanked WotE, I didn't do anything unusual (other than switching my glyphs/talents back after Elegon). And was told that my damage intake isn't as spiky as our DK tank. Make sure you have Guard unglyphed. I took Dampen Harm for this fight.

    Could you maybe post your toon as well as your logs?

  14. #34
    I edited the post in question... but please don't post pictures in response... it's a bit memeish.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Xaiden View Post
    Sorry, I don't know what that picture is supposed to mean... And in response to Caeth, I have been doing that but I can't seem to stay up during moments of spikes.
    It is a vampire or such being burned by the sun, because it is bright. Like the terrible format/style of your post, where the orange on bright background makes it impossible to read. There is a reason why you rarely see someone use font colors on forums, dark font on bright background enhances readability.
    Also using centered alignment breaks the flow of reading for the whole forum. If reading a topic, instead of taking notice of your post, it would be the first one I skip.

  16. #36
    It wouldn't allow me to post links until I have posted more in the thread. And thank you Madgod, I'm new to MMO's style and didn't know color and center were frowned upon. As well I was short on time so it did get wall to text-ish, my apologies again.

    But as I was saying I do have guard unglyphed am running avert harm and have a good up-time on shuffle. I believe the problem is I'm not generating as many Elusive Brew stacks as the others who have posted and I'm wondering is it RNG, a problem with my stat weight, or a play-style issue. I can't post the link yet, but if somebody could take a look at the realm Draka (US) and the guild Theory. Xaiden is the toon's name, and it should be the Will logs from 11/14.

  17. #37
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shamanberry View Post
    World of Logs has a big "bug" with Brewmaster damage reporting. Since it reports absorbed damage as damage taken, and Stagger technically works as an absorb effect, it's basically showing the damage you would have taken had you not staggered any physical attacks (but still took the stagger DoT).

    To get the real number (and yes, this is non-trivial):
    Go to details for your monk.
    Step 1: Go to "Damage by Spell". Under "Damage Taken", record total damage taken.
    Step 2: Add up the total amount absorbed.
    Step 3: Go to "Healing by Spell". Under "Healing taken", add up all the yellow numbers in the Hits - Total column.
    Step 4: Your real damage taken is: Total damage taken(from step 1) - Total absorbed(from step 2) + external absorbs(from step 3).
    Using this method (finally killed Will for realz) I took almost exactly the same amount of damage as our warrior and then you can factor in that I healed myself for 7.5 mil so if you factor that out I took WAY less damage that required healers attention/mana than a plate class.

    I also did > 20k DPS than the other tank as well so yeah think I did fine on that fight. I'm pretty good at the dance I think I only messed up 1-2 times over the course of a 12 min fight...

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

  18. #38
    After wiping on it for hours a couple of weeks ago, we finally went back tonight after focusing more on HoF and somehow ended up one-shotting it. o_O Gear improvements from the whole raid and solidly learning how to dance over the two weeks was definitely helpful. Originally I was a horrible dancer, and the DPS had trouble keeping up with the adds. I went with the standard haste-focused build rather than mastery, though I did use a stamina flask instead.

    I found it easier for me personally to understand the arc path based on the blue swipe graphic, rather than relying on DBM to tell me where to go. I also always assumed that the attack would be the PBAoE so that it never caught me by surprise. I took Celerity, but only ended up rolling when mine did the frontal cone strike. It was never necessary for me to do it for the side ones, and that actually made it worse for me a couple of weeks ago when I was bad at it since I would often end up rolling in a bad direction, out of his melee range, and get pulled in and get hit anyway.

    I generally didn't attack too much during the dance phase and focused on just staying alive, and made sure I built some extra chi as soon as the Devastating Combo warning came up on DBM. I would pop my Purifying Brew at the start of the dance to purge off unnecessary ticks, then pop Guard or Elusive Brew as soon as the dance ended. I got my Shuffle up as soon as I could, using Expel Harm and Chi Wave as often as possible. I saved my Dampen Harm just for the gas phases, which gave me extra time to build up Shuffle and get extra Chi for Guard in conjunction with Elusive Brew to last me until the the next dance phase started.

    Because I was so focused on successfully dancing (and it's a nice feeling popping Opportunistic Strike every time, though sadly I did mess up once out of 13 times), I did get a bit sloppy and let my Tiger Palm fall off a few times >_<, though Keg Smashed and Jabbed when I could. While my overall damage done was lower compared to the Paladin tank, the amount of damage I took was also much lower - 40m vs. 34m dealt, but 19m vs. 15.5m taken.

    The nice guy even dropped the helmet for my troubles.

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