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  1. #21
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    Blizzard have mismanaged mats and the worst thing they did was to keep the inktrader shut and then suddenly open it. This caused a massive crash. There are too many herb nodes to start off with. DMF leaving down double the problem.

    The challenge remains the same. If the mats are cheaper to buy than farm then buy from AH.

    The biggie is whether demand will ever happen. LFR reduces the need for alchemy and farming is likely to screw the flask market.

    Btw I disagree that the main herb was silkweed. It is absolutely Green tea, which is found in every zone.

  2. #22
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    Did you really not expect the price to crash like this after the DMF was over?

  3. #23
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farabee View Post
    The real question is, in the face of nearly unlimited supply how can Blizzard make markets viable again?
    The markets are plenty viable. Economy-players don't make money per-purchase, they make money in bulk. If one market dries up in profit, they move to another. If you're hanging your entire gold-making engine on one market, it's like investing everything you have in horses just before the automobile is invented. You need to diversify and broaden your system.

    The mantra "buy low, sell high" has two sides. If you can't sell high, buy lower. As long as you're not selling lower than you bought, you're making a profit.


  4. #24
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    The markets are viavle, but then they should be at an expansion. They are not anywhere near as profitable as people were expecting. I am wondering how much that also has to do with mobs dropping less money? Blizzard have made some major changes which include infinite mats, nerfing JC recipes as well as enchanting. Thus is also the first expansion with lfr from he start. people who do lfr are not bothered about maxing their character.

    I agree though with moving to other markets and diversify. I habe bought up quite a few mats hat I am confident will pay off later on. This is where a clost stydu of he market helps. We seem to be getting quite a bit of distress from people who dont know how to do anything but the shuffle and hey are lost. Dont be a one trick pony.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Purpledrink503 View Post
    I'm a little confused on why people even bitch about prices on anything going down. What do you even use gold for? I had 2 million gold at the start of this expansion and just wasted like 200k on crap just for the hell of it to use gold. I just don't get what you need gold for. I could of easily just not spent that 200k and I would be fine lol.
    I only had 4k when I started MoP...

    Compared to Mining, Herbalism is useless. The most efficient way to get the only useful herb, is by farming SoH using your farm, not by Herbing...
    The only reason I keep Herbalism, is because I like the extra heal and find it a novelty/ironic, a DK surrounded by flowers :P

  6. #26
    annnnd Stocking up on silkweed NOW!
    "I hated hating Garrosh before it was cool."
    FOR THE HORDE!!!

  7. #27
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 999tigger View Post
    The markets are viavle, but then they should be at an expansion. They are not anywhere near as profitable as people were expecting.
    I don't know about anyone else, but on 30 seconds a day, I've made about 80k over the last couple weeks. And I'm really not making any effort, yet; I haven't started trying to shuffle ore, I haven't done any farming beyond the first few days to get mats for my main, nor have I been pushing my Living Steel cooldowns like I could've been.

    Sure, 80k isn't a ton of money, but I'm basically making no effort to capitalize on it.


  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I don't know about anyone else, but on 30 seconds a day, I've made about 80k over the last couple weeks. And I'm really not making any effort, yet; I haven't started trying to shuffle ore, I haven't done any farming beyond the first few days to get mats for my main, nor have I been pushing my Living Steel cooldowns like I could've been.

    Sure, 80k isn't a ton of money, but I'm basically making no effort to capitalize on it.
    Gold will be flowing out of the economy with this expac lots of people with lots of gold are spending instead of easy farming and BMAH is taking Millions and Millions out.
    "I hated hating Garrosh before it was cool."
    FOR THE HORDE!!!

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I don't know about anyone else, but on 30 seconds a day, I've made about 80k over the last couple weeks. And I'm really not making any effort, yet; I haven't started trying to shuffle ore, I haven't done any farming beyond the first few days to get mats for my main, nor have I been pushing my Living Steel cooldowns like I could've been.

    Sure, 80k isn't a ton of money, but I'm basically making no effort to capitalize on it.
    Nice for you. Ive made reasonable amounts, but I know the effort put in and its not as people usually expect at the beginning of an expansion.
    I understand the reasons, but its just a fact there is less money to be made due to nerfing and overabundant mats.

    Oh and Seref

    Compared to Mining, Herbalism is useless. The most efficient way to get the only useful herb, is by farming SoH using your farm, not by Herbing...
    The only reason I keep Herbalism, is because I like the extra heal and find it a novelty/ironic, a DK surrounded by flowers :P


    This is rubbish herbalism as well asmining have still been very profitable. Who do you think was supplying all the mats for the DMF.

  10. #30
    Mechagnome Jeffyjimbob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seref View Post
    Compared to Mining, Herbalism is useless.
    I'm making more off herblore than I am mining, I think it's largely dependent on your server. I can sell 10 stacks of green tea leaves for ~50~80g each before I can sell 2 stacks of ghost iron at any reasonable price.

  11. #31
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    Came into this thread talkin bout 'erbs
    it wasn't about the herbs I tought

  12. #32
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingriku View Post
    Gold will be flowing out of the economy with this expac lots of people with lots of gold are spending instead of easy farming and BMAH is taking Millions and Millions out.
    Quote Originally Posted by 999tigger View Post
    Nice for you. Ive made reasonable amounts, but I know the effort put in and its not as people usually expect at the beginning of an expansion.
    I understand the reasons, but its just a fact there is less money to be made due to nerfing and overabundant mats.
    There hasn't been time for the BMAH to put much of a dent into the slush funds of the wealthy, and the regular joes likely aren't able to afford those prices anyway. It'll be a controlling factor long-term, but it's not killing the economy.

    Both of you are looking at the economy as sellers, and sellers alone. You don't play the AH by selling. You make money by selling for more than you bought for. As long as there is stuff being sold, it doesn't matter what the price is. All that matters are the margins and competition. Economies turn by the volume and rapidity of sales, not by the price per sale.

    There's be changes in which particular markets carry the best effort/return value, but that's always true of every expansion. MoP isn't some new economy that's going to be wholly different than before, it's basically the same economy that WoW has already had for years. If you were reliant on one particular market, and that market has crashed, then you have learned an important lesson about why diversification is important. It doesn't mean the economy is dying. Not even a little.


  13. #33
    The Lightbringer
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    herb price double after DMF on my server

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    There hasn't been time for the BMAH to put much of a dent into the slush funds of the wealthy, and the regular joes likely aren't able to afford those prices anyway. It'll be a controlling factor long-term, but it's not killing the economy.

    Both of you are looking at the economy as sellers, and sellers alone. You don't play the AH by selling. You make money by selling for more than you bought for. As long as there is stuff being sold, it doesn't matter what the price is. All that matters are the margins and competition. Economies turn by the volume and rapidity of sales, not by the price per sale.

    There's be changes in which particular markets carry the best effort/return value, but that's always true of every expansion. MoP isn't some new economy that's going to be wholly different than before, it's basically the same economy that WoW has already had for years. If you were reliant on one particular market, and that market has crashed, then you have learned an important lesson about why diversification is important. It doesn't mean the economy is dying. Not even a little.
    I never mentioned the BMAH. Thanks for telling me what Im thinking or telling me how to make money on the ah. You have zero idea what my play style or strategy is but carry on telling me you do. I think I know how to play ta. The AHs are different this time around because of deliberate changes made to professions (not that I disagree with them). People adjust and carry on.

  15. #35
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 999tigger View Post
    I never mentioned the BMAH.
    You may have noticed I quoted two people to respond to, there.

    Thanks for telling me what Im thinking or telling me how to make money on the ah. You have zero idea what my play style or strategy is but carry on telling me you do. I think I know how to play ta. The AHs are different this time around because of deliberate changes made to professions (not that I disagree with them). People adjust and carry on.
    The AH is different, but there isn't less profit. The way to capitalize on the AH did. And it always does. You can't expect a specific market to remain statically rewarding forever, you always need to be paying attention to the supply and demand, and adjusting your own activities in response. There is not "less money to be made". There's a TON of money to be made. I've made a bundle without much effort, I know other people whose profits are in the hundreds of thousands. Pretty much everyone knew the herb market was going to crash pretty significantly once the Darkmoon Faire was over, since a lot of the price was based on the rush for Darkmoon Cards. There'll be another bump for the next Faire, but likely not nearly as big, and then it'll even out. You'll see a dip right now as the frenzied supply that was meant to keep up with the demand for DMC crafting peters off and floods the market, and then prices will rise there as well. All of this was known, since it's what happened in Cataclysm, and for much the same reasons.

    The point is, the markets are NOT dying. There is NOT "less money to be made". YOU might not be making that money, but that's not the same thing at all.


  16. #36
    I'm absolutely loving the drop. Over the past 24 hours I've been buying Common Herbs for 40g/stack or less and crafted around 3200 Ink of Dreams and 700 Starlight Ink.

    Being able to craft darkmoon decks for ~2.3K and reselling 40-60K is pretty win.

  17. #37
    Warchief Freedom's Avatar
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    I bought a Tiger deck for 20k by buying individual cards. People are stupid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    Ok, I give up. This is pointless.
    Many Multitudes Online Constantly Harping About Minor Problems
    FIRE GIVES ME BIGGER BLOOD SHIELDS

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinsoul View Post
    The ink trader effect shouldn't be underestimated. For most of the week, I felt herbs and not SoW were my limiting factor in card production. When the ink trader arrived I had over 1000 ink to trade (and I'm a small timer). It was a massive increase in supply.
    So much this. The fact that the ink trader was not in mop on release artificially inflated the price of herbs because there was no other way to get the rare ink but simply buy and mill more herbs. Thus when the trader finally was implemented the bubble burst and when coupled with the end of the DMF was bound to significantly crash the price of herbs.

    I was a small operation with only 1 scribe and had over 800 inks to trade in. Thats over a weeks worth of herbs that i dont need to purchase of what was 200g a stack with no guarentee of how many stacks i would need to produce a card. I know a friend who has 5 or 6 scribes and had over 2500 inks to trade! It is a welcome reduction in price as far as im concerned.

  19. #39
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    You may have noticed I quoted two people to respond to, there.



    The AH is different, but there isn't less profit. The way to capitalize on the AH did. And it always does. You can't expect a specific market to remain statically rewarding forever, you always need to be paying attention to the supply and demand, and adjusting your own activities in response. There is not "less money to be made". There's a TON of money to be made. I've made a bundle without much effort, I know other people whose profits are in the hundreds of thousands. Pretty much everyone knew the herb market was going to crash pretty significantly once the Darkmoon Faire was over, since a lot of the price was based on the rush for Darkmoon Cards. There'll be another bump for the next Faire, but likely not nearly as big, and then it'll even out. You'll see a dip right now as the frenzied supply that was meant to keep up with the demand for DMC crafting peters off and floods the market, and then prices will rise there as well. All of this was known, since it's what happened in Cataclysm, and for much the same reasons.

    The point is, the markets are NOT dying. There is NOT "less money to be made". YOU might not be making that money, but that's not the same thing at all.
    All servers are different.
    There is less money to be made at the moment in traditional markets than might otherwise have been expected ay the beginning of an expansion because demand is not as high. There are changes in the mechanics of the game, which have had this impact.

    That is not to say there arent new markets. Did I say dying or was that just you? You have this habit of being presumtuous and then inventing things I have said and adjusting your post accordingly. Go figure. If you are only spending 30 seconds a day on the AH how can you know the true state of the markets and compare it to Cata?
    Last edited by mmoc0afa280d34; 2012-10-18 at 05:45 AM.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Farabee View Post
    Well, it was bound to happen with the DMF leaving town and the ink trader setting up shop but I didn't expect this level of "crash":

    https://theunderminejournal.com/item...jin&item=72235

    This is Silkweed on my server, as Silkweed is the primary herb most people use for milling purposes due to the difficulty of Fool's Cap to obtain and the relative ease of obtain-ability of this herb coupled with the small amount of alchemy uses. Obviously not the whole story is being told by the Market Price, as the bottom of the market is now down to 2g. The quantity available is also fairly telling of current buying habits as supply hasn't really changed. There's been almost a 66% reduction in price over the last week and it's STILL not selling.

    What if you buy and craft into inks? Well that's a sadder story:

    https://theunderminejournal.com/item...jin&item=79254
    https://theunderminejournal.com/item...jin&item=79255

    Yes, even trading up you're only make a 30g profit on IoD to Starlight. Starlight suffering currently a 75% reduction on price.

    Thanks to Golden Lotus, herbs are worthless to an alchemist with the main block to market availability being the Golden Lotus, the ridiculously rare herb that nobody can seem to get enough of:

    https://theunderminejournal.com/item...jin&item=72238

    But even there we see the pinch as more and more people spend their SoH on alts, on gatherers on this herb. What if an alchemist were to buy both the Silkweed and Godlen Lotus and produce the final result, the Flask of the Warm Sun (+int)? Well...

    https://theunderminejournal.com/item...jin&item=76085

    That's right. A grand total of 15g profit, if the flask even sold at all. Judging from once again the glut of market availability, people are relying on guild alchemists for their raiding needs right now.

    The real question is, in the face of nearly unlimited supply how can Blizzard make markets viable again?
    If prices are low, now you buy, buy, buy. Especially if you have multiple scribes to crank those cards out. As long as you have 85's, you can always make more scribes. I've gained two myself this past week using the ink vendor to level all the way up. I've seriously thought about raising a 4th scribe as well if I can keep myself in enough rare ink.

    I can't get herbs for less than 60 gold a stack, and the median price on my server is still well over 80. Glyph are going from anywhere from 50 silver to 600 gold. I convert a portion of my ink into the high selling glyphs, but mostly I've been building cards for the next fair. The trinkets seem strong enough to have a long life. In the past expansion, I was selling as many as 100 trinkets a month as far in as the start of 4.3. People wanted to gear up alts for raid finding.

    Yeah demand falls off at this point, but you'll see another rise before the next fair and during it. The preparation is now though.

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