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  1. #41
    I am Murloc! SirRobin's Avatar
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    I may come back after F2P. TOR isn't a "bad" game. It just isn't good enough to be worth a monthly fee, in my opinion.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamos77 View Post
    Ah so they moved the goalposts gotcha. So you're not angry at the actual system per se. You're annoyed at the underhanded re-wording of the F2P page a few months back? So the metaphorical 'spit in the face of customers' flew through the air a while back? It isn't incoming right? Good to know

    I have no clue why Bioware have a hard time avoiding these community related cockups. From the EU-Beta wait-a-thon to the red zone announcement being made AFTER pre-orders started being taken, it seems to be a circus of ineptitude sometimes.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-16 at 11:26 PM ----------



    I thought I'd feel the same but redoing some missions was fine actually. Compared to SWG where I had 20x lvl 90 toons and that game had zero class specific content, TOR is actually not bad a grind alt-wise imo.
    I have level 50 BH and IA and a level 42ish JK. I'll never make it through Balmorra again.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWGoneBad View Post
    yes but this is a double-edged sword Arlee. those that have subbed and moved on they EARNED those coins according to BWs own site.
    Actually, they haven't EARNED those coins unless they have a current subscription.

    I think a lot of people are WAY overblowing this... creating a frenzy over something that is really a silly little bonus.

  4. #44
    Dreadlord Byrogan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirRobin View Post
    It was working for a bit but soon crashed.
    Mmm, it's not just that though, whenever I click on a thread in the general discussion forums I get the maintenance message and it's been like that for awhile, heck a few days ago I couldn't even get on the site, kept giving me a timed out error.
    Sell a man a fish, and he can eat for a day, teach a man to fish, and you lose a great business opportunity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Remnas View Post
    This guy could sell more Oxyclean than Billy Mays, and make you feel like a badass while using it.
    Priest - 14/14HM

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Leadsop View Post
    Actually, they haven't EARNED those coins unless they have a current subscription.
    Using you logic a player who bought the game on sale for $15 and subscribes for a month now thus being active during the transition is worth more and earned he's reward more than a guy who bought the game at launch for full price, subscribed for 8 months to then take a break a month or two while waiting for new content.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leadsop View Post
    I think a lot of people are WAY overblowing this... creating a frenzy over something that is really a silly little bonus.
    We still don't know what type of bonus it is as the relative value of the coins is yet to be determined so is the actual use of them as far as content, items and unlocks goes, very much like a lottery where the winnings are hidden until it's drawn and done.
    Active PoE: @MajorAsshole EvE: Redblade (Reikoku)
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  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    Using you logic a player who bought the game on sale for $15 and subscribes for a month now thus being active during the transition is worth more and earned he's reward more than a guy who bought the game at launch for full price, subscribed for 8 months to then take a break a month or two while waiting for new content.
    You mean me?
    Lv40 (Firefall) Dragonfly, Mammoth, Nighthawk, Arsenal, Tigerclaw
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  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    You mean me?
    I didn't quote you now did I? :P
    Active PoE: @MajorAsshole EvE: Redblade (Reikoku)
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  8. #48
    Bloodsail Admiral Jamos77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    Using you logic a player who bought the game on sale for $15 and subscribes for a month now thus being active during the transition is worth more and earned he's reward more than a guy who bought the game at launch for full price, subscribed for 8 months to then take a break a month or two while waiting for new content.
    Not exactly. Player A hasn't earnt his reward more than B. Player A has simply earnt a reward. B hasn't earnt a reward.

    It's a promotion isn't it? The rules to enter are simple. All you need to do is be subscribed when the promotion starts. If you're not subscribed you haven't lost anything as you never actually earnt anything. Again, the promotion starts when F2P starts. Any coins you think you earnt, guess again. You earn them the day F2P goes live. Use that table to see how many coins you could earn when F2P eventually goes live but that's it.

    As of today You, I, Yoda and Luke have all earnt ZERO tokens.

    OT: When F2P goes live I'll receive 2300 tokens on one account, 1450 on another and 1150 on my 3rd. My guess is the one or two things i'll want to buy will cost millions of coins, lol. We'll see soon enough.
    Last edited by Jamos77; 2012-10-16 at 10:37 PM.
    SWG - Jamus Divinus - Bria 2005-2011

    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusher View Post
    There is plenty to criticize with the game and BioWares handling of it without resorting to exaggeration, so let's not do it : /

  9. #49
    High Overlord Thundermoose's Avatar
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    Good. Fine, I have some points and it's good to see just how many I have, but until we get an in depth look at what's in the store, they're nothing but some numbers standing on a website.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    I didn't quote you now did I? :P
    heh. Just pointing out that I am that guy who paid in full, subscribed for 10 months, and will get nothing. Whereas some dick who signs up 2 hours before F2P hits will get 400 coins.
    Lv40 (Firefall) Dragonfly, Mammoth, Nighthawk, Arsenal, Tigerclaw
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    Lv80/85 (GW2) Thief (WoW) Rogue, Mage, Priest, Hunter, Warlock, Warrior, Death Knight, Paladin, Druid, Shaman

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    heh. Just pointing out that I am that guy who paid in full, subscribed for 10 months, and will get nothing. Whereas some dick who signs up 2 hours before F2P hits will get 400 coins.
    I might just be that dick...probably not, but I might be. How would you feel about that? : P

  12. #52
    Bloodsail Admiral Jamos77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    heh. Just pointing out that I am that guy who paid in full, subscribed for 10 months, and will get nothing. Whereas some dick who signs up 2 hours before F2P hits will get 400 coins.
    However that 'dick' is a current subscriber. You're not a subscriber anymore. I think they should give people like you more incentives to come back but I can also see the logic behind the fact that you are not a customer right now so you're not entitled to anything. Simply pay $15 bucks and rejoin the pack. If you don't want to (for whatever reason) then what have you actually lost? Nada.
    SWG - Jamus Divinus - Bria 2005-2011

    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusher View Post
    There is plenty to criticize with the game and BioWares handling of it without resorting to exaggeration, so let's not do it : /

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    Using you logic a player who bought the game on sale for $15 and subscribes for a month now thus being active during the transition is worth more and earned he's reward more than a guy who bought the game at launch for full price, subscribed for 8 months to then take a break a month or two while waiting for new content.
    Not at all.

    Using THE RULES OF THE GIVEAWAY (not "my logic"), if player A has subbed since launch and then drops NOW and waits for F2P, while player B buys a $15 game and subs next week, then Player A has NOT earned any Cartel Coins, while Player B HAS.

    It's that simple.

    They are giving out free shit. They are allowed to decide how they give out their free shit.

    Honestly, I agree with one of the guys above. I will be getting 2750 CC, which is the max anyone could possibly get (been subbed since launch, have the CE). My guess is the first really interesting item will cost 3500-4000 CC... just enough to get me to spend some money anyways.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamos77 View Post
    It's a promotion isn't it? The rules to enter are simple. All you need to do is be subscribed when the promotion starts. If you're not subscribed you haven't lost anything as you never actually earnt anything. Again, the promotion starts when F2P starts. Any coins you think you earnt, guess again. You earn them the day F2P goes live. Use that table to see how many coins you could earn when F2P eventually goes live but that's it.
    As far as we can tell the rules have changed along the way so no they are not simple, not to mention that it's an ongoing promotion that promises coins for being subscribed right now so no, it doesn't start when F2P is launched, on top of this they give no relative value to said coins.

    Hell I could resubscribe now for a month to get the coins promised for doing just that and have it laps the day before F2P and miss out on the coins I was originally promised for resubscribing in the wait for F2P.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamos77 View Post
    As of today You, I, Yoda and Luke have all earnt ZERO tokens.
    That's one hell of a way to piss on your early supporters from a great hight, just sayin'.
    Last edited by Redblade; 2012-10-16 at 11:01 PM.
    Active PoE: @MajorAsshole EvE: Redblade (Reikoku)
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    People just do the strangest things when they believe they're entitled. But they do even stranger things when they just plain believe. - Kevin Smith

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamos77 View Post
    However that 'dick' is a current subscriber. You're not a subscriber anymore. I think they should give people like you more incentives to come back but I can also see the logic behind the fact that you are not a customer right now so you're not entitled to anything. Simply pay $15 bucks and rejoin the pack. If you don't want to (for whatever reason) then what have you actually lost? Nada.
    I've lost nothing, but they've lost any chance they ever had of me subscribing with them again or purchasing Cartel Coins. To me, seems THEY lost out.

  16. #56
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamos77 View Post
    Simply pay $15 bucks and rejoin the pack. If you don't want to (for whatever reason) then what have you actually lost? Nada.
    Responding to some post earlier as well. We have screenshots in another thread that proves they completely changed the wording. It doesn't matter what you can or can't do with legality (not a contract that both parties signed so anything can be changed at any time) it's the fact that the only reason many people resubbed at the announcement was to start earning coins expecting them to be delivered as stated.

    It might be against better business practices, I'm not an expert. However, I do that it is completely disregarding customer service to favor making profit from the margins. For all the people who keep saying they are doing nothing wrong, who keep defending EA for every shitty move they do, open your eyes. The ideology behind what I just quoted is what let's people be oppressed, robbed, and murdered.

    It's so easy to say, "That is not related," or, "You are exaggerating". When will people realize that psychology is being used to take your money every day while you won't even admit that these principles are all connected? You don't magically lose frequent flyer miles if you use another airline. You don't stop earning discounts at grocery stores when you shop at a different store. Every other business realizes that being inclusive makes them more money in the long run. Bringing people to your business normally results in them giving you money. It's called loyalty.

    It is one of the backbones of the customer service industry. Like it or not, you can't throw that out the window like it is invalid. Every person who thinks this isn't a problem has the same basic argument. You don't pay anymore so you aren't worth anything and you aren't entitled to anything.

    I'm sorry, but that's just not true. You didn't help carry this business to where it is now. Look at investors who help create businesses. Once they cease to give money, does the company turn around and say thanks for your money, but you don't get anything anymore? No. They give them long term benefits in some capacity. Whether it's ownership, stock options, or a literal payout with interest. These people invested in a game and got a mess of an effort in return.

  17. #57
    Bloodsail Admiral Jamos77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    As far as we can tell the rules have changed along the way so no they are not simple, not to mention that it's an ongoing promotion that promises coins for being subscribed right now so no, it doesn't start when F2P is launched, on top of this they give no relative value to said coins.

    Hell I could resubscribe now for a month to get the coins promised for doing just that and have it laps the day before F2P and miss out on the coins I was originally promised for resubscribing in the wait for F2P.



    That's one hell of a way to piss on your early supporters from a great hight, just sayin'.
    The early supporters who aren't supporting anymore? I guess we differ on what constitutes an insult then. No worries.

    It seems painfully clear to me. The sin was in changing the details back in early august. That was lamentable. Since then though it's been pretty easy to follow. 'You want to partake in the promotion? Keep subscribing.' Thin line between entitlement issues and genuine grievances imo or maybe it's subjective for everyone.

    Sorry that some feel spat on/insulted/robbed by this promotion and hopefully it won't affect their spirit too much.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-17 at 01:18 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Responding to some post earlier as well. We have screenshots in another thread that proves they completely changed the wording. It doesn't matter what you can or can't do with legality (not a contract that both parties signed so anything can be changed at any time) it's the fact that the only reason many people resubbed at the announcement was to start earning coins expecting them to be delivered as stated.

    It might be against better business practices, I'm not an expert. However, I do that it is completely disregarding customer service to favor making profit from the margins. For all the people who keep saying they are doing nothing wrong, who keep defending EA for every shitty move they do, open your eyes. The ideology behind what I just quoted is what let's people be oppressed, robbed, and murdered.

    It's so easy to say, "That is not related," or, "You are exaggerating". When will people realize that psychology is being used to take your money every day while you won't even admit that these principles are all connected? You don't magically lose frequent flyer miles if you use another airline. You don't stop earning discounts at grocery stores when you shop at a different store. Every other business realizes that being inclusive makes them more money in the long run. Bringing people to your business normally results in them giving you money. It's called loyalty.

    It is one of the backbones of the customer service industry. Like it or not, you can't throw that out the window like it is invalid. Every person who thinks this isn't a problem has the same basic argument. You don't pay anymore so you aren't worth anything and you aren't entitled to anything.

    I'm sorry, but that's just not true. You didn't help carry this business to where it is now. Look at investors who help create businesses. Once they cease to give money, does the company turn around and say thanks for your money, but you don't get anything anymore? No. They give them long term benefits in some capacity. Whether it's ownership, stock options, or a literal payout with interest. These people invested in a game and got a mess of an effort in return.
    Game subscribers are not business investors. I think we're all losing the plot a bit here. You pay for a service. If you're not happy with that service you stop paying.

    Bioware changed the wording in a gross fashion back in august. I agree. It was underhanded. The fact they changed it was underhanded but not what they changed it to.

    What you wrote has no place in a gaming forum. We're discussing a game promotion with some barriers to entry that some don't like and you pull out 'The ideology behind what I just quoted is what let's people be oppressed, robbed, and murdered'? We need to get a grip methinks. If you want to discuss social indifference, Capitalist evils and the like then surely mmo-champion.com isn't for you.

    I'm not defending Bioware's dodgy marketing practises. I'm discussing the current entry conditions to TOR's latest promotion.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-17 at 01:19 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Responding to some post earlier as well. We have screenshots in another thread that proves they completely changed the wording. It doesn't matter what you can or can't do with legality (not a contract that both parties signed so anything can be changed at any time) it's the fact that the only reason many people resubbed at the announcement was to start earning coins expecting them to be delivered as stated.

    It might be against better business practices, I'm not an expert. However, I do that it is completely disregarding customer service to favor making profit from the margins. For all the people who keep saying they are doing nothing wrong, who keep defending EA for every shitty move they do, open your eyes. The ideology behind what I just quoted is what let's people be oppressed, robbed, and murdered.

    It's so easy to say, "That is not related," or, "You are exaggerating". When will people realize that psychology is being used to take your money every day while you won't even admit that these principles are all connected? You don't magically lose frequent flyer miles if you use another airline. You don't stop earning discounts at grocery stores when you shop at a different store. Every other business realizes that being inclusive makes them more money in the long run. Bringing people to your business normally results in them giving you money. It's called loyalty.

    It is one of the backbones of the customer service industry. Like it or not, you can't throw that out the window like it is invalid. Every person who thinks this isn't a problem has the same basic argument. You don't pay anymore so you aren't worth anything and you aren't entitled to anything.

    I'm sorry, but that's just not true. You didn't help carry this business to where it is now. Look at investors who help create businesses. Once they cease to give money, does the company turn around and say thanks for your money, but you don't get anything anymore? No. They give them long term benefits in some capacity. Whether it's ownership, stock options, or a literal payout with interest. These people invested in a game and got a mess of an effort in return.
    Game subscribers are not business investors. I think we're all losing the plot a bit here. You pay for a service. If you're not happy with that service you stop paying.

    Bioware changed the wording in a gross fashion back in august. I agree. It was underhanded. The fact they changed it was underhanded but not what they changed it to.

    Btw what you wrote has no place in a gaming forum imho. We're discussing a game promotion with some barriers to entry that some don't like and you pull out 'The ideology behind what I just quoted is what let's people be oppressed, robbed, and murdered'? We need to get a grip methinks. If you want to discuss social indifference, Capitalist evils and the like then surely mmo-champion.com isn't for you.

    I'm not defending Bioware's dodgy marketing practises. I'm discussing the current entry conditions to TOR's latest promotion.
    SWG - Jamus Divinus - Bria 2005-2011

    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusher View Post
    There is plenty to criticize with the game and BioWares handling of it without resorting to exaggeration, so let's not do it : /

  18. #58
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    I started another thread about the specifics on the free page, but check out this nice little piece of text that has replaced all the mumbo jumbo at the bottom:

    *Subscription and Free-to-Play features are subject to change.
    Isn't that cute? I guess they have been reading these threads and EA is pushing ahead.

    Also:
    This is shown on the Coin page for me:
    Earn 1000 Complimentary Cartel Coins by becoming a subscriber today!
    Now I don't know if this is a coincidence, since it's how many points I have apparently 'not really earned', but it is misleading me to think I would get an extra 1000 coins for subscribing now. However, we already know that if I don't stay subbed when it is F2P this is not true. Also, maybe they are referring to the coins I've already earned.

    The deception just keeps growing.

    And here is where any of you who thought your dedicated subscription up until this point meant they thought anything of you:
    http://www.swtor.com/support/helpcenter/6785

    Their definition of a "Loyal Subscriber" is literally only someone who has an active sub when they go F2P. You could have bought a CE, subbed until the day it went F2P and you would be considered shit on EAs shoe.
    Last edited by Kelimbror; 2012-10-16 at 11:26 PM.

  19. #59
    A little analogy:

    A man paid for his education to get the job.
    He was working and paying taxes.
    He worked for a long time and when it was a couple of years before his retirement - he had enough money to quit the job and just relax and wait for his pension.
    He did so.
    But then government decided that he has to be active taxpayer during the last year before the retirement to get the pension.
    Otherwise he gets no pension for all those years of labor.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamos77 View Post
    The early supporters who aren't supporting anymore? I guess we differ on what constitutes an insult then. No worries.
    Perhaps they planned on supporting again, people have various reasons for taking breaks, something as simple as vacation can be one, perhaps the customer works in ways that gives him months off while no spare time for months on end. Point being support no matter when it takes place is still support, excluding customers that have supported you in the past but don't currently is a sure way to lose support where as including them might even get them to support you again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamos77 View Post
    It seems painfully clear to me. The sin was in changing the details back in early august. That was lamentable. Since then though it's been pretty easy to follow. 'You want to partake in the promotion? Keep subscribing.' Thin line between entitlement issues and genuine grievances imo or maybe it's subjective for everyone.
    All I can say is that if I had subscribed for one month when they announced the promotion to get in on the reward then I would have expected to get it, if they would stand their ground that I needed to be subscribed at the transition I would have reported them to the authorities out of pure principle.
    Active PoE: @MajorAsshole EvE: Redblade (Reikoku)
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    People just do the strangest things when they believe they're entitled. But they do even stranger things when they just plain believe. - Kevin Smith

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