Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst
1
2
  1. #21
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Rawfury View Post
    The point im trying to make is there is no point, none. We have to cast for a while to do anything. Lava burst(unless it procs or hits twice for lol "30k" twice) and lightning bolt hit like a wet noodle.

    Astral shift is a joke 6sec for 40% damage reduction and CANNOT be used while cc'd?
    Anyone that sees ascendance just cc's you and they should.

    After that we're virtually screwed. Windshear is basically 15 seconds now too. Boomkins you can atleast make a case that their dots cannot be dispelled(i dont think they can i could be wrong), they have a damage reduction in moonkin form. They have Barskin, and they can shapeshift and run away or pop survival cds. Oh im sorry i forgot to add... the other hybrids have a instant HoT they can cast IN form, while yet again we need to cast.

    When i ask about ele pvp we just get ignored also(ghostcrawler, pvp feedbacks, etc etc). Just going to level up my mage or something else solely for pvp, as sad as it seems thats the only way to go nowadays. Everyone else just looks at us as a freekill might as well. **** this game for making me have to do this
    Warlock see's your astral shift of 40 % reduced damage for 6 seconds, which also costs a talent point, and raises unending resolve: Reduces all damage taken by 40 % for 8 seconds, and makes you immune to all interrupts and silences, Warlock baseline skill. =/

    Everything a Shaman can do, other classes does better. >.<

  2. #22
    I am Murloc! Roose's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Tuscaloosa
    Posts
    5,040
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    Haven't played anything on my Shaman during MoP, but my destro lock completely wrecked an Elemental Shaman earlier this evening, there was really nothing she could do, I didn't even have to use any of my cooldowns...

    She casts:
    Flame shock, lava burst, attempts to cast lightning bolt.

    I fel flame away her grounding totem, interrupt lightning bolt, cast immolate, chaos bolt, conflagerate, blood fear, inscinerate like three times, mortal coil, immolate and then shadowburn as she's bellow 20 % hp and she's dead...

    I still had so many defensive CD's and even offensive CD's I didn't even need to use, whilst she didn't stand a chance, I just felt sorry for her...
    Feel sorry for them not knowing how to play. Not because the spec sucks. No tremor totem? No interrupt? No defensive CDs? Any class lets a destro lock cast like that is dead.
    I like sandwiches

  3. #23
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Roose View Post
    Ele shaman could bitch before cata, but they are nasty in the right hands. Definitely more of a BG spec, though. I play my shaman now and it is miles from where it was when complaints were very much legit.

    Some specs simply require more skill to pvp. Ele is one of those. Does not mean it is broken, just takes more time to master.
    Funny, Elemental Shaman has always been seen as a class with really low skill cap, whilst a class like mage and rogue are the ones with large skill caps. Shaman doesn't have much you can show your skill with, they have no cooldowns, no fancy mechanics on their spells. The biggest difference between an average and really good Elemental Shaman is what, their timing with CC, interrupt, fake casting? They have no real tools to use exceptionally well, unlike Mage.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-18 at 03:20 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Roose View Post
    Feel sorry for them not knowing how to play. Not because the spec sucks. No tremor totem? No interrupt? No defensive CDs? Any class lets a destro lock cast like that is dead.
    She interrupted one of my incinerates but it didn't make any difference. Tremor totem wouldn't have mattered either as I partly used it as an interrupt to lay up my next cast which broke it anyway.

  4. #24
    ele ascendance is a joke in pvp. it seemed like an epic cooldown until you thought about it for 10 seconds. sigh.
    Arena Master Elemental Shaman
    Maeros@Illidan
    http://www.twitch.tv/chroniclinex
    http://www.youtube.com/chroniclinex

  5. #25
    High Overlord Naeton's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Kun-Lai Summit
    Posts
    121
    Ele shaman is good for throwing people in the Nether at EoTS' center.
    Other than that it's a free kill for me, unless the player knows his class 100%, which is rare (so far).
    Qui a rejeté son démon nous importune avec ses anges.
    -Henri Michaux

  6. #26
    The issue seems to be that Blizzard is sticking hard with the "hybrid tax" mentality for ele shamans, while it's all but abandoned for everyone else. Not even the burst/glass cannon argument is holding up any more, since there are now plenty of other classes that can outburst elemental while also having vastly superior survivability.

  7. #27
    Or healing surge having same spell coefficient for ele as for resto (for which it scales with mastery and high crit chance with TW), meaning it doesn't heal for a lot compared to flash heal of spriests. Healing surge is quite weak baseline since it's really good if resto uses it with TW on low hp target.

    Flash heals heals more baseline and scales better with SP.

    So far blizz logic on balancing spells with specs... I was amazed when they said that was intended.
    Why are ele heals nerfed because of the mastery of the other spec, and spriest doesn't have this handicap?

  8. #28
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by woopytywoop View Post
    Or healing surge having same spell coefficient for ele as for resto (for which it scales with mastery and high crit chance with TW), meaning it doesn't heal for a lot compared to flash heal of spriests. Healing surge is quite weak baseline since it's really good if resto uses it with TW on low hp target.

    Flash heals heals more baseline and scales better with SP.

    So far blizz logic on balancing spells with specs... I was amazed when they said that was intended.
    Why are ele heals nerfed because of the mastery of the other spec, and spriest doesn't have this handicap?
    Different classes are different? Sorry only reason I could think of, even if it doesn't make much sense in all situations. =/

    I feel that I would much rather see heals go altogether within Elemental Shaman spec, if that's the "survival" they base it around, I would rather see the kind of defensive CD's and mobility spells that mages and warlocks have (obviously not copy pasted, but spells along those lines) than have to rely on spamming some heal that is also on the nature school along all other spells and is really easy to interrupt and eats a ton of mana (at least last time I tried it).
    Last edited by mmoce2fa46bcbe; 2012-10-18 at 10:11 PM.

  9. #29
    Play spriest/ele shaman/resto druid and succeed.

  10. #30
    Scarab Lord foxHeart's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Inside Jabu-jabu's Belly
    Posts
    4,402
    Well, the true purpose of ele pvp is thunderstorming people off the center of EotS until it doesn't give you the lols, anymore, and then re-rolling resto. So it's basically a stepping stone!
    Look! Words!

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    To top it off, as you said a Shaman is like a turret, a glass cannon if you will. If left unchecked they can be deadly, but the thing is nobody ever leaves an Elemental Shaman alone. They are the first to fall, because people know how easily they die. I tried quite a bit of arena during Wrath but got so sick of the fact that I was always instantly targeted because they knew how easily I died. Even happened in Battlegrounds, the only really fun times I had in PvP was when I used Thunderstorm to kill people. All other times I was lying dead in the dirt...
    First off. In Wrath Ele shamans were ranked #1 if I'm not mistaken in 5v5. Every single glad 5v5 team had an ele shaman. They were in a much better place then compared to now.

    EDIT: For those who don't know Bloodlust was useable in Arenas and was largely the reason for bringing an Ele. But still.
    Last edited by barrsftw; 2012-10-19 at 05:55 AM.

  12. #32
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by barrsftw View Post
    First off. In Wrath Ele shamans were ranked #1 if I'm not mistaken in 5v5. Every single glad 5v5 team had an ele shaman. They were in a much better place then compared to now.

    EDIT: For those who don't know Bloodlust was useable in Arenas and was largely the reason for bringing an Ele. But still.
    First off, you only use the term first off if you have something more to add. Secondly, I didn't play 5v5 arena because A: I couldn't find four friends of the right class/spec who were interested enough and B: I wasn't even all that interested in 5v5 arena.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-19 at 09:08 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by foxHeart View Post
    Well, the true purpose of ele pvp is thunderstorming people off the center of EotS until it doesn't give you the lols, anymore, and then re-rolling resto. So it's basically a stepping stone!
    Nope, I rerolled Warlock so I'm good.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    First off, you only use the term first off if you have something more to add. Secondly, I didn't play 5v5 arena because A: I couldn't find four friends of the right class/spec who were interested enough and B: I wasn't even all that interested in 5v5 arena.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-19 at 09:08 AM ----------


    Nope, I rerolled Warlock so I'm good.
    Second off,... jk. I can understand why a lot of people don't do 5v5. But Eles were good believe it or not.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    First off, you only use the term first off if you have something more to add. Secondly, I didn't play 5v5 arena because A: I couldn't find four friends of the right class/spec who were interested enough and B: I wasn't even all that interested in 5v5 arena.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-19 at 09:08 AM ----------


    Nope, I rerolled Warlock so I'm good.
    Ele shamans were still strong as fuuuark in 2's, 3's and 5's during wrath. 3's ele shaman, resto druid and affli warlock. GL.

    And they didn't even need bloodlust to blow shit up.

  15. #35
    Elemental is a spec for RGBs, it's not as bad as you said, excepting that bugged hunters and warrriors which will be fixed "soon" but still, we provide BL and a solid burst, enough with a smoke bomb to down a fc

  16. #36
    My brothers resto druid casts Wraths that do almost as much (very close) damage as my Ele's lightning bolts. Hard casting spells that don't hurt and no defensives will be our doom. Destro locks are the new Ele Shamans.

  17. #37
    Deleted
    Melee is "balanced" around being able to somewhat deal with Frost Mages, Ele Shamans do not have the tenth of a control a Frost Mage has, therefore in a 1on1 fight the Ele Shaman is gimmicky and feels weak.

    But the game is balanced (or at least they say so) under the pretense of a 3v3 arena fight and not 1on1

  18. #38
    Stood in the Fire Tovarish24's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    402
    A lot of good thoughts here, so I'll just throw in my 2 cents instead of comment on what's already been said. Personally, I love PvPing as Ele, always have. However, my shaman has for the most part usually been an alt. I stick to my Lock and some other assorted classes for my rating and stuff like that, but I love Ele pvp. I can't honestly sit here and talk about Ele being "good." They're kind of where they've always been. I go into an arena or a BG knowing what I'm up against, and I cater my playstyle to that. I usually try to partner myself with someone who is dedicated to peeling or healing for me. I never go into something without a good defense on the field. If you're playing with a good team, and the right comp, you shouldn't have any issues. Grab a mage to play with and have your attackers eat poly's and novas. Not hard. Or have a lock spam fear on an attacker. You get my point. The thing about Ele is that it's all about staying on the move, and keeping distance. With unleashed lightning glyphed and our fancy new insta-cast lava flows procs, it's not hard to stay on the move. Once you gain a little distance, and maybe get a hex down on the Warrior/DK/Ret/Hance/Rogue, it's a GG when you pop Ascended and can nuke the living fuck out of someone with your lower-CD interrupt and either a Capa totem or a buddy dropping a silence in there.

    People often seem to forget that Shaman are almost purely a support class. I believe the same goes for Locks. I play both classes in arena as my "mains," and I play them both as support classes, like they are meant to be. You're not a mage, or a melee, or a holy pally, or whatever. You can't expect to get caught in the line of heavy fire and plan on living. You have to play smart, stay on the defensive, keep your distance, drop light damage (IE: keeping up dots as a lock, or runcasting LB as a shaman). When the timing is right, that's when you unleash your dormant burst and shit all over someone's day.

    People just need to keep in mind that they're not meant to be a mage as an Ele shaman. You're there to support and execute. Keep good CC up (Sheer, Hex, CapaT), make use of your special abilities (Healing, Tremor). And when the kill window opens so to speak, let the rain pour. Shaman aren't the "run in, blow cooldowns" type of "burst" dps that people want them to be. You have to work for it as a Shaman, which I find fun. I enjoy hanging back, doing what I can to help my team, and then when the time is right, forcing a health bar from loaded to empty in a matter of globals.

    I often find myself being the guy that people don't really worry about, and then all of a sudden, they're like "wtf where did that come from."

    I just think that people are wishing that Ele was balanced on the same scale as say Mage or Lock, but the fact is, they're a *support* *hybrid* class, and while the two of those usually mean "weak" in a traditional, "throughput" type of way, they can actually make for a really exciting spec. I think people need to stop looking at some of the more classic "pvp" classes, and start thinking about what THEY (IE: a shaman) brings to the table that those classes don't.

    You cannot fairly compare an Ele shaman to any other caster than maybe Boomkin. Comparing a Mage/Lock/Melee/Spriest to Ele is like comparing (For LoL players) Sona to Trynd or Eve to Soraka. You get the point. They're not meant to do the same thing. They're good for their own reasons.

    Now I'm not going to get into balance discussion right now, because we are all aware of the Warrior/BM/FrostDK issues at hand. I don't think anyone should talk about how Ele or any other spec for that matter is a "Free Kill" right now, because frankly there are too many issues on live at the moment. I think in 5.1 with these class changes we will see a few changes. Give Ele some time and think about it from the perspective that I laid out here. Remember that you're not a mage, or a defensive CD arsenal. Ele, and shaman in general, are a support class. Play the spec thinking "How can I help my team win" rather than "How do I compare to a mage/caster".

    If anything playing other games helped me realize the true meaning behind playing a "support" class. I have adopted that playstyle in how I play certain specs in WoW, and it's helped a lot. I'm not saying don't be aggressive, you're still a dps spec, but just remember the role you play.

    inb4: again I know that many of you out there are going to say "well what you said is all well and good, but I'm still getting 2 shot everywhere I go." I get that, but that has less to do with Ele being bad and more to do with Warrior/DK/Ret/BM being out of control against casters right now. It's not just Ele believe me, I play all 10 classes, a few at max level, and it's across the board.
    WoW : Burning Blade (H)
    90 Warlock, 90 Shaman, 96+ Mage, 90 Death Knight, 86 Warrior, 90 Hunter, 85 Rogue, 80 Paladin, 76 Priest, 70 Druid, 26 Monk

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Into View Post
    Melee is "balanced" around being able to somewhat deal with Frost Mages, Ele Shamans do not have the tenth of a control a Frost Mage has, therefore in a 1on1 fight the Ele Shaman is gimmicky and feels weak.

    But the game is balanced (or at least they say so) under the pretense of a 3v3 arena fight and not 1on1
    That's bs. If your using that argument then you have to assume melee have dispels to deal with a frost mage as well. It's just like the warrior argument that second wind is not balanced around 1v1, but then go on to claim how they need it in 3's (when they should have a healer).

    I'm not advocating anything here except you can't justify something in a 1v1 setting, then say you need it in arena, while all the while ignoring the tools your partners also bring in arena.

    *edit*

    @ Tovarish

    I agree that some of the problem isn't elemental is so bad, but other classes are over the top atm. But in a game design of so much burst, if you don't have a way to deal with the burst you're not going to live. Sure they could tone down burst across the board which would help elemental, but probably the better idea would just be to bring elemental up to other specs level.

    I agree that comparing classes on a side by side basis rarely results in constructive discussion, however when looking at things in a broader sense it can be done more easily. Looking at categories such as defensive abilities, burst, CC, control is a better way to compare classes.

    Elemental has some pretty big flaws including: lack of sufficient defensive abilities, having to hard cast much of their damage, mobility issues against melee, and poor damage outside Ascendance.

    Elemental has some pretty good tools, but when opponents can just sit and train the shaman they nullify most of this. I really want to play against people who don't constantly train my elemental shaman, but seems we're fighting different opponents. I don't blame others for sitting me, because it's what I do to every other elemental I see and basically take them out of the equation.

    Furthermore, not to be a dick but level 87 PvP is a lot different than level 90 PvP. At 87 there are abilities you don't have to worry about such as Avatar which are game changers verses elemental.
    Last edited by Blitond; 2012-10-19 at 10:46 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •