Really disappointed with Arena Net - PR

[Deleted]

As a very active GW2 player, avid partaker in the online forums and other GW2 communities I must say I'm very disappointed with ANet in many ways since the game has launched.

This criticism isn't directed at the product, Guild Wars 2 is a great game by any standard, but more at the company policies, QA etc.

1. Patches making the game buggier rather than better - It seems for every patch ANet has employed over the past few weeks they managed to break a handful of other things in the process. Hell I remember a week where almost 1/3rd of all DE in certain areas were bugged. I recall patches that broke Skill-Challenges that were working previously. Arah has been virtually locked the entire last week due to some bug. The Borderlands Jumping Puzzles are still broken, by something they patched 2 weeks ago and the list goes on.

I mean I've literally had patches that broke more things for me than they fixed (often fixing stuff I never even noticed). It seems as if ANet's QA department is too small or their patches aren't reviewed properly. I hope this improves over time, maybe if we get a PTR, but what I've seen until now is pretty sad.

2. Almost complete lack of communications about core issues with the game-play.

I understand and appreciate the stance of "let's lean back and watch the meta-game evolve" when ot comes to PvP class-balance issues. It can be frustrating at times but it makes sense given how young the game is and how builds and tactics are still evolving.

But there are other things that really need to be addressed, or at least commented on. Free server transfers for example are seriously impairing WvW. It encourages sabotage, guild-hopping and various other undesirable activities. It also goes against building server communities if people start to fluctuate to the winning servers. While we all appreciated the free transfers, they need to end asap. They are hurting the game.

Downed state in PvP is another hot-topic and I would appreciate to at least hear the developers thoughts on it. It has some seriously game-breaking implications in WvW, really limiting what undermanned players can achieve against larger groups. It works nicely in PvE but really hurts the game in PvP.

Night-capping was the only issue I recall that did provoke an official response, one that didn't address a single concern voiced by the community and ignored any of the reasonable suggestion to mitigate the issue.

I'd also like to hear what their take is on, despite wanting to achieve the opposite, players are funneled into Orr at level 80 simply because it's the most lucrative and efficient location to grind. It goes against EVERYTHING GW2 set out to achieve and really doesn't make sense design wise.


It's time like these when I really miss somebody like Ghostcrawler who, despite times of absence during Catalcysm, always took the time to explain certain design paradigms and goals. ANet needs a Ghostcrawler.

[Deleted]

I agree with you mostly, although I'm sure there are plenty of arguments for why the patches turn out that way. New game and all, the poor starving artists over at ANet can't do everything.

Oh, and Ghostcrawler is awesome, but you're really not going to get a lot of people agreeing with you if you say GW2 is bad (you don't, directly, but you know how people work) and then say Ghostcrawler is great.

[sacrypheyes]

i don't agree with everything you said nor disagree about some of your points but don't mind me if i say GC can just go and d... from my POV.

[Edge-]

That's not PR. That's being upset with the community team (different than PR) and their live team.

[fizzbob]

you had to get that "wow does it better" shot in

wow doesn't do it better. wow is buggy as fuck right now and has always been buggy as fuck. core skills have been buggy for nearly a decade in some cases. gw2 is about par for the course

and gc is a moron. he is wrong about how abilities work sometimes, he downplays how bad something is and generally just says nothing of value anymore.

and you may get the "nah it's fine, you're wrong"

didn't he just say LFR was gonna be harder, but in reality, it's not harder at all lol?

they all do this. wow is the standard and rift, gw2, aion, etc all meet it

mmorpgs are just always buggy and nobody has solved it yet

[draykorinee]

you had to get that "wow does it better" shot in

wow doesn't do it better. wow is buggy as fuck right now and has always been buggy as fuck. core skills have been buggy for nearly a decade in some cases. gw2 is about par for the course

and gc is a moron. he is wrong about how abilities work sometimes, he downplays how bad something is and generally just says nothing of value anymore.

and you may get the "nah it's fine, you're wrong"

didn't he just say LFR was gonna be harder, but in reality, it's not harder at all lol?

they all do this. wow is the standard and rift, gw2, aion, etc all meet it

mmorpgs are just always buggy and nobody has solved it yet

Uh oh someone said wow does a good job with communication, must be a wow fanboi, must attack world of warcraft quickly!

When in fact he clearly doesnt say 'wow does anything better, he just said GC communicates well, nothing about the game being bug free (clearly isnt) or bugs being fixed quicker (it doesnt), but attack warcraft if it makes you feel better about yourself and totally ignore all the other points.

Being funnelled in to doing 1 zone because it offers more bang for your buck is clearly not the design intention, if your'e a completionist and you have 100% then run orr, if you're a completionist who doesnt have 100% do old zones, get 100% (if its not bugged ofc) then go do Orr, if you're not a completionist go run orr, something needs to be done about that, I guess new zones at 'max' level will help to fix that.

[Zilong]

As a very active GW2 player, avid partaker in the online forums and other GW2 communities I must say I'm very disappointed with ANet in many ways since the game has launched.

This criticism isn't directed at the product, Guild Wars 2 is a great game by any standard, but more at the company policies, QA etc.

1. Patches making the game buggier rather than better - It seems for every patch ANet has employed over the past few weeks they managed to break a handful of other things in the process. Hell I remember a week where almost 1/3rd of all DE in certain areas were bugged. I recall patches that broke Skill-Challenges that were working previously. Arah has been virtually locked the entire last week due to some bug. The Borderlands Jumping Puzzles are still broken, by something they patched 2 weeks ago and the list goes on.

I mean I've literally had patches that broke more things for me than they fixed (often fixing stuff I never even noticed). It seems as if ANet's QA department is too small or their patches aren't reviewed properly. I hope this improves over time, maybe if we get a PTR, but what I've seen until now is pretty sad.

I won't disagree that there were alot of bugs, there are still alot of bugs. And I will agree that some patches made it worse. But Right now as we stand, I've noticed fewer and fewer of them, to the point I don't worry anymore about it. I will be honest, I must be very lucky because the only skill point I've found bugged was the one at the first WP at Cursed Shore. Most of the Events bugged were stopping at bridges, escort ones. A few dungeon ones, but that never stopped me to do other stuff, the DE's too, I just...continued on. They suck, but the game just started, patches are rather frequent, and if anything I think they are starting to settle it down a little better, they do have alot to do, I mean some design issues, bugs, and new content, not to mention balance. But I'm being realistic, I don't pay a sub, and there is plenty to do, plenty of time for fixes also.

2. Almost complete lack of communications about core issues with the game-play.

I understand and appreciate the stance of "let's lean back and watch the meta-game evolve" when ot comes to PvP class-balance issues. It can be frustrating at times but it makes sense given how young the game is and how builds and tactics are still evolving.

I think they are fairly accessible. I've seen plenty of responses in the official and even not official forums. I mean, again, the game has what? Not even 2 months? How much can a company really respond to the liking of a really big community that for the most part (and no one can't disagree on that) don't know what they are talking about. Literally thousands not understanding most of the game and asking for a revamp and more. As I said before, they have balance data to analyze, new promised content that's already on it's way, bug fixes, bot/gold sellers problem (which is a big one, and even tho it falls to them..it's us who's doing to the game) and more. I would like to be heard as much as anyone, but as of now I think they are kinda doing okay...

But there are other things that really need to be addressed, or at least commented on. Free server transfers for example are seriously impairing WvW. It encourages sabotage, guild-hopping and various other undesirable activities. It also goes against building server communities if people start to fluctuate to the winning servers. While we all appreciated the free transfers, they need to end asap. They are hurting the game.

I agree. This needs to end soon. Sooner rather than later. It has run it's course, and it needs to end.

Downed state in PvP is another hot-topic and I would appreciate to at least hear the developers thoughts on it. It has some seriously game-breaking implications in WvW, really limiting what undermanned players can achieve against larger groups. It works nicely in PvE but really hurts the game in PvP.

Totally disagree here. While I can imagine a PvP with no downed state, and yes it gets you frustrated about it sometimes, I feel like it's really a tactical choice. And the devs did hear about it and spoke about it. This was even in the beta, and after internal tests they concluded that they feel like it's a nice addition to the game, if you look for it you will find the post somewhere.

The server browsing is bad. 8v8 is too much, Ill give ya that. But that's already mitigated with tournies, and with the up coming custom arenas. And as for WvW, I don't see too much of a problem, besides the tweaking on balancing the skills around. It's part of the game, and I think it adds quite a bit of interesting come backs, and twists. And I don't think it hurts the PvP as much as people say.

Night-capping was the only issue I recall that did provoke an official response, one that didn't address a single concern voiced by the community and ignored any of the reasonable suggestion to mitigate the issue.

I can't say Im aware of the issues, could you be more specific?

I'd also like to hear what their take is on, despite wanting to achieve the opposite, players are funneled into Orr at level 80 simply because it's the most lucrative and efficient location to grind. It goes against EVERYTHING GW2 set out to achieve and really doesn't make sense design wise.

Yeah, this is a big one. And Im with you. I dislike how it is right now. I'm not going to lie and say gw2 is perfect, far from it. Needs to be worked in many angles. This being the biggest probably.

It's time like these when I really miss somebody like Ghostcrawler who, despite times of absence during Catalcysm, always took the time to explain certain design paradigms and goals. ANet needs a Ghostcrawler.

I really have nothing to say here. Again, for a game that yo pay no sub to, that is just out..and like it or not is improving. I think Bliz is better off with the Ghostcrawler, and Anet without one.

[nyc81991]

you had to get that "wow does it better" shot in

wow doesn't do it better. wow is buggy as fuck right now and has always been buggy as fuck. core skills have been buggy for nearly a decade in some cases. gw2 is about par for the course

and gc is a moron. he is wrong about how abilities work sometimes, he downplays how bad something is and generally just says nothing of value anymore.

and you may get the "nah it's fine, you're wrong"

didn't he just say LFR was gonna be harder, but in reality, it's not harder at all lol?

they all do this. wow is the standard and rift, gw2, aion, etc all meet it

mmorpgs are just always buggy and nobody has solved it yet

Why are you on this site if you hate WoW so much? And what makes you think that WoW has so many bugs? I have yet to come across any bugs with MoP.

[Karizee]

Being funnelled in to doing 1 zone because it offers more bang for your buck is clearly not the design intention, if your'e a completionist and you have 100% then run orr, if you're a completionist who doesnt have 100% do old zones, get 100% (if its not bugged ofc) then go do Orr, if you're not a completionist go run orr, something needs to be done about that, I guess new zones at 'max' level will help to fix that.

Funnelled into one zone whaa..?
You are downleveled in GW2 when you go into lower zones, there is no need to stay in Orr and very, very few people do. Go to any zone, any meta boss event and you see hundreds of people, people at max level right along with people that are leveling. That's the beauty of the GW2 system.

In WoW you're funnelled into one INSTANCE.

Besides the fact that Orr is THREE zones. Did you even play this game?

[draykorinee]

Funnelled into one zone whaa..?
You are downleveled in GW2 when you go into lower zones, there is no need to stay in Orr and very, very few people do. Go to any zone, any meta boss event and you see hundreds of people, people at max level right along with people that are leveling. That's the beauty of the GW2 system.

In WoW you're funnelled into one INSTANCE.

Now I know why I have you on ignore, its dumb comments like this, I dont want to turn this in to a wow v gw2 debate like your trying. I said more bang for your buck, ie you get more rewards for running orr, only completionists will want to run downlevelled zones, no one with a brain will go back to a level 10 zone to get rewards if they have 100% in there.
Your last comment is the biggest load of drivel Ive read from you and isnt worth me defending, if you think that the majority of players raid your a bigger fool than i thought, to defend it would just descend in to inane wow vs gw2.

orr being 1 zone/3zones symantics not a defense.

[Fencers]

Guys, please stay on topic. DO NOT argue over game v. game bs.

Do not go down the road of terribleness.

-Fencers

[Remilia]

They suck, but the game just started, patches are rather frequent, and if anything I think they are starting to settle it down a little better, they do have alot to do, I mean some design issues, bugs, and new content, not to mention balance. But I'm being realistic, I don't pay a sub, and there is plenty to do, plenty of time for fixes also.

You know, I've always had issues with this particular mentioning for every single game.
It has bugs, okay, yes. Every game has bugs, but just cause it released doesn't excuse it from having bugs.
Sad but true is that the best way to find the bugs is to release it to the masses, but it doesn't mean you can't fix the ones that you find or have received reports on in beta (and beta should always include all level, as it is just a bug test, or it's supposed to be...).
Sub or no sub doesn't excuse it from needing to be patched. As long as it patches properly and doesn't generate more bugs and does what it's needed to do, then it's good.
Also, rolling a lot of patches out but breaking it more, is bad.


Also this isn't really PR, more like dev issues.

If you want to receive bad PR, this is what it'll be from, which was inevitably, edited out. At september 13th.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/35156/SS/1/rules.png

[mafao]

Dunno, I think gw2 has the best community dialogue I have ever experienced in a gaming company, where devs are actually actively engaging in a dialogue with the players. Yes, some things are less transparent, but the reason for this is that they still haven't finalised their 'chain of communication' (internal and external). And I fully agree that some patches broke lots of stuff, then again, the game is only a month old.

BTW, when I played WoW it was as buggy or even more. Back at Cata launch it took them over two month to fix the Shadowpriest orbs and the prot Pala Avenger's shield was buggy for even longer period of time. And I won't even mention the tooltips

P.S. Ghostcrawler is indeed more a PR 'feature' - so that players can say 'ah, the devs do care!'. Most of things he said were not nearly as informative as what ANet tells us though...

[Karizee]

I think gw2 has the best community dialogue I have ever experienced in a gaming company, where devs are actually actively engaging in a dialogue with the players.

73 pages of dev posts on the dev tracker forums. Not to mention the countless videos, blogs, TAD talks, etc. That's in one and half months.

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/info/devtracker

[Kelesti]

Ghostcrawler tells me that Mind Control lets me use other players abilities.

Plus, given the lifespan of the game, he's actually only been onboard since ToC. Pre-him, the developers weren't quite as open about getting their information out unless it was to build hype for a new tier of raiding. That's about it. But more and more, people and companies are realizing just how important it is to have people like Ghostcrawler, even if they're not in charge of anything, just to be that guy to talk to.

Guild Wars 1 had Gaile Grey. Even though she's still around now, she would drop by and do solid Q&A sessions in the Internation Districts of Lion's Arch, Kaineng, Shing Jea Monastery, or Kamadan every so often (and always on the holiday events). Was she in charge? Nope. But she was a face to talk to, and someone in direct contact with the developers that could tell them what they needed to hear from us, and what we needed to hear from them.

ArenaNet knows just how valuable it is to have someone like this, and she's still around, but given how the server structure is a little different, it's kind of harder to address stuff like that and their forums aren't really the best place to do so at the moment. Do we need someone of Ghostcrawler's... presence? To write entire blogposts on why Warriors need to be nerfed and how <whatever class> is fine, meandering into "state of the game" incoherent drunken rambling? Not really.

I mean, Ghostcrawler himself doesn't even post on the forums anymore. It's just not sustainable. But he does do Twitter. You know who else does Twitter? The ANet devs (collectively) through @GuildWars2.

But as edge had pointed out, you're more mad at their live team and their community team, not their PR.

As for Downed State, they really already like how it plays in PvP. In WvW, that's another matter altogether, but they can't and won't be balancing the game around WvW.

And... Nightcapping is an issue? Really? ....why? If your server can't field a defense over night, then it deserves to lose the spots it has. No, really. If my entire squad of 20 that just capped a Keep decide to log out in the middle of a fight, no matter what time of day it is, who's defending that Keep? No one. Why should certain times of the day be exempt from this?

[Zilong]

Funnelled into one zone whaa..?
You are downleveled in GW2 when you go into lower zones, there is no need to stay in Orr and very, very few people do. Go to any zone, any meta boss event and you see hundreds of people, people at max level right along with people that are leveling. That's the beauty of the GW2 system.

In WoW you're funnelled into one INSTANCE.

Besides the fact that Orr is THREE zones. Did you even play this game?

Hold for a second. I think you a lil bit ahead of yourself here. Regardless that we can go back, cause I think everyone knows they can, you are just not compelled to do it. The drops are not quite adjusted, you do get less karma, there is no reason to go back too much. I mean, people do to break out, but the "farm" karma is at Orr, the big non stop chains, no hearts is there. I agree with dray, we need more 80 areas to spread around. I don't stay in orr because everyone is there, regardless, and currently asking them not to is insane lol (except for explorers). I do realize the beauty of gw2 system, but it's not quite yet there as you might think. And that's not coming from drayhatezorsky :O, its coming from someone that really likes the game, and I think to be actually balanced in opinions (me).

----

You know, I've always had issues with this particular mentioning for every single game.
It has bugs, okay, yes. Every game has bugs, but just cause it released doesn't excuse it from having bugs.
Sad but true is that the best way to find the bugs is to release it to the masses, but it doesn't mean you can't fix the ones that you find or have received reports on in beta (and beta should always include all level, as it is just a bug test, or it's supposed to be...).
Sub or no sub doesn't excuse it from needing to be patched. As long as it patches properly and doesn't generate more bugs and does what it's needed to do, then it's good.
Also, rolling a lot of patches out but breaking it more, is bad.


Also this isn't really PR, more like dev issues.

If you want to receive bad PR, this is what it'll be from, which was inevitably, edited out. At september 13th.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/35156/SS/1/rules.png

Of course its bad. No question about it, but as I said on my post. I haven't encountered 1 bug that pissed me off, I think I'm lucky because that doesn't seem to be the majority. There are some designs I hope that they improve, and some funcionality/balancing of skills. But aside from that I havent had a problem.

[Karizee]

I've got more karma than I know what to do with and I've barely stepped foot in Orr.

Unless I have totally missed something, the only thing to do with karma is save it for a legendary (which, what? Maybe 90% of the playerbase is NOT going for?) or cultural weapons.

[Deleted]

lol dude do some research google: what can i do with karma xD ..

[Deleted]

I've got more karma than I know what to do with and I've barely stepped foot in Orr.

Unless I have totally missed something, the only thing to do with karma is save it for a legendary (which, what? Maybe 90% of the playerbase is NOT going for?) or cultural weapons.

You are totally missing something. Hundreds of people are grinding away for their Legendaries every day in the Cursed Shore, just by rotating between the same 5-7 Dynamic Events. Most events are so overloaded with people you can barely "tag" the attacking mobs who have a life expectancy of roughly 2 seconds. It's run over with Bots too, who simply stand and certain DE ant auto-shot everything in range.

Why do people do this:

1. More Karma efficient - You are "taxed" for doing lower-level events. You receive 378 Karma for a DE in the Cursed Shore but only about 270 for an Event in a mid-level zone and even less in others. Why? Why tax people who travel, explore, etc? It doesn't make sense.

2. Travel expenses are discouraging people from using the waypoints too much. Going from one end of the map to the other can cost you up to 5 Silver at level...1 way. No wonder people much prefer to camp one zone, rather than explore different events and locations.

3. Superior Loot - Most people are there to grind both loot and Karma. And loot is significantly better in the Cursed Shore compared to everywhere else. Only level 80 drops, level 80 crating materials, level 80 rare materials etc.

4. Orchialicum the most tought-after resource only spawns in high-level zones like Orr. Another reason to stick around them.

5. Plenty of "defend xyz from waves of mobs" events that are easy to faceroll and give maximum loot.


None of these design decision would have to be this way. But for some reason ANet decided to do it so. It doesn't make sense given everything they set out to achieve with GW2.

[Ravenblade]

1. Patches making the game buggier rather than better - It seems for every patch ANet has employed over the past few weeks they managed to break a handful of other things in the process. Hell I remember a week where almost 1/3rd of all DE in certain areas were bugged. I recall patches that broke Skill-Challenges that were working previously. Arah has been virtually locked the entire last week due to some bug. The Borderlands Jumping Puzzles are still broken, by something they patched 2 weeks ago and the list goes on.

I guess that's just down to a lack of content regression-testing which would ironically lead to lengthier production cycles and trigger an "updates taking too long" debate. On programmer side it's also not testing or being much aware of inter-connected side-mechanics or lack of communication with people who developed these encounters. Say a programmer finally fixed a bug with countdowns going negative meanwhile event X had a hard-coded script in place starting when countdown goes negative because of said bug. Now this event will not trigger anymore because ironically countdowns now run properly.

I mean I've literally had patches that broke more things for me than they fixed (often fixing stuff I never even noticed). It seems as if ANet's QA department is too small or their patches aren't reviewed properly. I hope this improves over time, maybe if we get a PTR, but what I've seen until now is pretty sad.

Yes, it is most likely too small to regression-/stress-test updates for a product at this scale. So they only check mechanics which are known directly to benefit of a certain fix. But I am sure that over time their methods will improve. It's an unfortunate side-effect though.

But there are other things that really need to be addressed, or at least commented on. Free server transfers for example are seriously impairing WvW. It encourages sabotage, guild-hopping and various other undesirable activities. It also goes against building server communities if people start to fluctuate to the winning servers. While we all appreciated the free transfers, they need to end asap. They are hurting the game.

Although I agree and I wondered about that myself I believe they said that it will cease to become free once guesting is implemented.
Meanwhile they should limit total server transfers per month to two.

Downed state in PvP is another hot-topic and I would appreciate to at least hear the developers thoughts on it. It has some seriously game-breaking implications in WvW, really limiting what undermanned players can achieve against larger groups. It works nicely in PvE but really hurts the game in PvP.

Agreed. This whole "Finish Them Off!" thing is quite non-sense from a design-view. It also leads to people F-zerging around in the hope they manage to catch a badge. They should just make players die on spot and drop a satchel which is still not ideal but a friendlier mechanic.

Night-capping was the only issue I recall that did provoke an official response, one that didn't address a single concern voiced by the community and ignored any of the reasonable suggestion to mitigate the issue.

To be honest it boils down to their servers divided into American and European realms which as I know now boils down to different routing (although I literally never noticed any difference). Playing on a European server this means all-European guilds will end up losing to American and nightowl cappers.
I understand ANet's argument though but it's perhaps more about people realizing that Europeans as well as Americans can play on any server and seeing how it worked in EVE where 24 hrs. corporations are the rule I hope this will manifest here eventually as well.

I'd also like to hear what their take is on, despite wanting to achieve the opposite, players are funneled into Orr at level 80 simply because it's the most lucrative and efficient location to grind. It goes against EVERYTHING GW2 set out to achieve and really doesn't make sense design wise.

Oh, I agree. Even though I love roaming in low-level zones it's not going to replace roaming in Orr which serves as form of morbid entertainment and staple for players who really want to do something outside of PVP and dungeons.

It's time like these when I really miss somebody like Ghostcrawler who, despite times of absence during Catalcysm, always took the time to explain certain design paradigms and goals. ANet needs a Ghostcrawler.

Maybe that will come. But from my limited observation they are very far from that due to their stance which is basically resembling Blizzard's stance in vanilla: "It's our game. We designed it that way. Don't like it? Deal with it or quit it." But I agree it is severely needed but it should not be seen as panakeia because people will then step up and demand personal attention: "[IMPORTANT] To Ghostcrawler: Read this important posting of mine!".