Thread: Capacitor totem

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  1. #1

    Capacitor totem

    Hey guys I don't post on here often but when i do i tend to get some great advice. Anyways I've been leveling a pandaren shaman for the new expac and recently just got capacitor totem and decided to pair it with totemic projection cause it seemed like the only way i could actually get it off on someone. Anyways i decided to hit up the bg que and noticed a few things. I feel like latency is a big deal with this ability and i swear ive had it on top of people multiple times and there is no stun, this happens to me constantly. I also notice that when using totemic projection it doesnt acutally put the totem where the circle is. Its almost like the circle is where you imagine your body and the totem get place a little away from you, and to me that makes the difference sometimes. SOOO is it all just skill and i need more practice? or do i just have to lead the target really far. Seems to me like the easiest to avoid 5 sec stun in the game thanks in advance for any help. Cheers!

  2. #2
    Yup, your right about position. The totems you move go to the same position relative to the recticle as they go when you place them down next to you. You need to compensate for that when using totems like Earthbind and CPT. It was either do that or make all totems you move go too the exact same spot which would be too strong because it would become much more difficult to target important totems, the only way to do it reliably would be to have totem health bars up which clutters the screen.

    The lesser of the two evils is to just require that the Shaman compensates for it. You get used to it after a bit. Its also nothing new. For example a Hunter has to compensate when he fires his traps for people moving out of them before they activate for example. The best way to use CPT is to put it down, let it start casting then just before it procs the stun you move it onto the enemy. That way there is no way for the opponent to avoid it and its completely down to the Shaman to use right. They could destroy it whilst its charging next to you, but unless they are already on top of you switching to a totem that could be up to 40 yards away from them - especially inside a BG - is very difficult. It might be one of the hardest stuns to use, but its definitely not one of the easiest to avoid.


  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Undefetter View Post
    Yup, your right about position. The totems you move go to the same position relative to the recticle as they go when you place them down next to you. You need to compensate for that when using totems like Earthbind and CPT. It was either do that or make all totems you move go too the exact same spot which would be too strong because it would become much more difficult to target important totems, the only way to do it reliably would be to have totem health bars up which clutters the screen.

    The lesser of the two evils is to just require that the Shaman compensates for it. You get used to it after a bit. Its also nothing new. For example a Hunter has to compensate when he fires his traps for people moving out of them before they activate for example. The best way to use CPT is to put it down, let it start casting then just before it procs the stun you move it onto the enemy. That way there is no way for the opponent to avoid it and its completely down to the Shaman to use right. They could destroy it whilst its charging next to you, but unless they are already on top of you switching to a totem that could be up to 40 yards away from them - especially inside a BG - is very difficult. It might be one of the hardest stuns to use, but its definitely not one of the easiest to avoid.
    Some pretty general assumptions in this reply. 1) capacitor loses a lot of its utility vs melee because any competent player will kill it. 2) you assume a shaman always takes TP

    I'm not trying to say that it's worthless or anything, but to pull off capacitor totem vs ranged you have to take TP talent. It's extremely hard to pull off capacitor stun verse smart melee even with the glyph as well.

    As resto it's a lot easier to set up capacitor as apposed to elemental imo. I use it often inside a cc chain. Root -> Hex -> Root -> Capacitor -> Quaking Palm is a nice CC chain. If it's a healer or caster throw in WS as well.

    As for the positioning of TP, it takes practice. You also need practice with it inside tight places, as totems will have different positions when the area is constricted (ex Tunnel in WSG).

    OT:
    I have 2 weak auras for Capacitor totem. One of them shows the Icon (fairly large) when I place down capacitor. The other has a timer bar ticking down to detonate. This makes capacitor -> TP easier. Something like this might help with your timing.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Blitond View Post
    Some pretty general assumptions in this reply. 1) capacitor loses a lot of its utility vs melee because any competent player will kill it. 2) you assume a shaman always takes TP

    I'm not trying to say that it's worthless or anything, but to pull off capacitor totem vs ranged you have to take TP talent. It's extremely hard to pull off capacitor stun verse smart melee even with the glyph as well.
    I was talking too the OP, who said he was using TP and was having problems using it in BGs, where he shouldn't be in the middle of a fight - at least not at the start. By the fact he wanted to use TP with CPT it implies he normally stays at the back of fights in BGs, hence melee wont be in range of it.


  5. #5
    i don't think stacking all the totems in one spot would be too op because most people click on the bars vs tab target. the totem is such a difficult thing to use that i wouldn't see this being something people complain too much about. if it is then they should make all of their cds killable with nothing to gain for it

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by shammypie View Post
    i don't think stacking all the totems in one spot would be too op because most people click on the bars vs tab target. the totem is such a difficult thing to use that i wouldn't see this being something people complain too much about. if it is then they should make all of their cds killable with nothing to gain for it
    I don't want to start another 'CPT sucks' argument so lets put that aside, but I'd like to address the Totemic Projection issue. Its not just for CPT. Its for all totems. If they were stacked it would make them far harder to kill as they would only be targetable by nameplates, which would also be stacked ontop of eachother meaning if you have stacked nameplates on its impossible, and you can't quickly target totems you have to read the name of the nameplate first. With how it is now, you can fairly easily click on the totem or the nameplate, making it much nicer gameplay wise.

    As for totems being killable, its just like you being able to purge magic buffs others can 'purge' your totems, but its much more effort to kill a totem than it to purge a buff because you don't even have to retarget. Most people in high end arena make arena target macros for their important spells (Wind Shear, Frost Shock, Hex and Purge for Shaman) so they can press a key to hit each enemy player, you can't do that with totems.

    Overall, do I think CPT is the easiest thing to use ever? No. Does TP make it much easier? Yes it does, and I am much happier with how TP works now than I would be if it stacked all totems on the reticle, I think that might suck.


  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by shammypie View Post
    i don't think stacking all the totems in one spot would be too op because most people click on the bars vs tab target. the totem is such a difficult thing to use that i wouldn't see this being something people complain too much about. if it is then they should make all of their cds killable with nothing to gain for it
    Horrible idea. Although I admit in situations I abuse totem positioning (AB flags for example), but I don't think they should make it work like this. There are a lot better ways to increase totem survivability that don't require gimmicks like the one you suggest.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Undefetter View Post
    Yup, your right about position. The totems you move go to the same position relative to the recticle as they go when you place them down next to you. You need to compensate for that when using totems like Earthbind and CPT. It was either do that or make all totems you move go too the exact same spot which would be too strong because it would become much more difficult to target important totems, the only way to do it reliably would be to have totem health bars up which clutters the screen.

    The lesser of the two evils is to just require that the Shaman compensates for it. You get used to it after a bit. Its also nothing new. For example a Hunter has to compensate when he fires his traps for people moving out of them before they activate for example. The best way to use CPT is to put it down, let it start casting then just before it procs the stun you move it onto the enemy. That way there is no way for the opponent to avoid it and its completely down to the Shaman to use right. They could destroy it whilst its charging next to you, but unless they are already on top of you switching to a totem that could be up to 40 yards away from them - especially inside a BG - is very difficult. It might be one of the hardest stuns to use, but its definitely not one of the easiest to avoid.
    Thanks for the help I guess more practice is all i need, and thanks blitond i might pick up that addon, but i prefer a clean gui most of the time. I still wonder though if im enh how do i use it on an enemy melee if he can just smack it? I guess drop the totem somwhere far away and then port it on him when its about to pop?

  9. #9
    Warchief Protoman's Avatar
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    Totemic Projection needs to be fixed, its just not very accurate when it spreads the totems out like that...you can't be precise in your targetting. They should cluster them closer to the reticle, just spread out enough to target individually but still very close so its somewhat reliable in dropping it and effecting the area you want it to.

    Capacitor totem takes some time to get used to working properly, not many people notice it in BG's so far but I do wish it had like 5%HP......I would even say remove the detonate reduction glyph if it was given some base HP. It really bothers me how some of our most important totems can be killed so easily with 5HP, like capacitor, stormlash, and stone bulwark.....and two of those are air element so you can't even protect them with grounding totem. I personally hate the totem tier as well and find it rather useless, and TP seems to be the default choice but its just so clunky to use.

    Don't know why they stuck Shaman with the most vulnerable and least effective aoe stun out there, with no real way to protect it. Would be cool if grounding totem could be dropped regardless of other air totems, just so you could use it for some active defense. I think totems still need some work and development, they went thru some big changes and are not totally balanced in my eyes....with longer CD's they need more base defenses.

  10. #10
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Protoman View Post
    Totemic Projection needs to be fixed, its just not very accurate when it spreads the totems out like that...you can't be precise in your targetting. They should cluster them closer to the reticle, just spread out enough to target individually but still very close so its somewhat reliable in dropping it and effecting the area you want it to.

    Capacitor totem takes some time to get used to working properly, not many people notice it in BG's so far but I do wish it had like 5%HP......I would even say remove the detonate reduction glyph if it was given some base HP. It really bothers me how some of our most important totems can be killed so easily with 5HP, like capacitor, stormlash, and stone bulwark.....and two of those are air element so you can't even protect them with grounding totem. I personally hate the totem tier as well and find it rather useless, and TP seems to be the default choice but its just so clunky to use.

    Don't know why they stuck Shaman with the most vulnerable and least effective aoe stun out there, with no real way to protect it.
    Glyph of Totemic Vigor
    Besides which, you mentioned yourself Totemic Projection, which also serves to protect totems, and particularly Capacitor Totem, by letting you hide it out of LoS while it charges, and then tossing it where it needs to be immediately before it triggers.

    As for the totem tier; TP is about protecting totems from destruction or placing them with less risk to yourself. The other two are about using totems more often; Totemic Restoration almost halves the cooldown on Grounding Totem, used properly. Call of the Elements lets you pop utility totems like Grounding back to back. They serve their purpose just fine. If you're finding it "useless", it's because you're not using totems enough to make it worthwhile, which brings us around to pointing out that you're complaining about something that, by your own admission, isn't much of an issue.

    There's issues that could be worked on, but deliberately ignoring the tools we have to address the issue, to exaggerate the problem beyond what is reasonable or accurate, is not helpful discussion.

  11. #11
    There are some totems around with more than 5 hp, so the existance of GoTV isn't really an argument against why CPT should have more base hp.
    Also people will probably also need to take GoCPT, to reduce the charging time.

    If you THEN also add TP (which for enh wont be as practically usable since they're in the enemies face, dropping it at their feed, not having the time to throw it out of LoS and back before it detonates due to TP cd of 10 sec), you're set with 2 glyphes and one talent, all with the purpose to make ONE ability more reliable to use.

    No ones' asking for an baseline instant aoe stun, but CPT is just to weak baseline. Glyphes are not there to make abilities useful or viable, but to enhance them. The same goes for GoGW. Add GoHS into the mix, and an enh for example wont ever be able to get CPT up to an comfortable to use ability.

    As for TP: While I think it is among the smaller probs, even concerning the usage of CPT, I dont think it would be much of an issue to change it so that after using it, the next totem you place and/or target will be thrown to your selected destination. Totems turned into cooldowns, so the times where you have multiple down will be rare, so that's not really a loss (except you're heavy on throwing both CPT and EBT/EGT together or something)
    Also there'd be no problem with this in terms of more accurate placing. With just one totem thrown each time, you can simply drop it at the exact location. When using the glyph of Totemic-whatever, the dummies will simply placed in accordance to the actual totem to still create that totem square.
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  12. #12
    Tp is also useful for enh shaman. I use it to relocate healing stream and tide or stone bulwark away from melee or los from range but not myself.

  13. #13
    Stood in the Fire shell's Avatar
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    For me, I think if they did anything with capacitor it wouldn't be increasing its health or reducing its baseline charge time, it'd be increasing its range. Nothing ridiculous, though.
    These words in my mouth... where did they come from? I don't think I'm the one that put them there...

  14. #14
    Warchief Protoman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shell View Post
    For me, I think if they did anything with capacitor it wouldn't be increasing its health or reducing its baseline charge time, it'd be increasing its range. Nothing ridiculous, though.
    The range is one of it's few strong points.....8yds is larger radius then most aoe stuns which are like 3-5yds, plus with TP you can plant it much farther. It's greatest weak point and what makes it so much more inferior is the fact that it's not instant like all other aoe stuns plus you can kill it before it goes off....I would really like to see those weak points addressed, although totem HP is a larger issue then just CPT.
    Glyph of Totemic Vigor
    Besides which, you mentioned yourself Totemic Projection, which also serves to protect totems, and particularly Capacitor Totem, by letting you hide it out of LoS while it charges, and then tossing it where it needs to be immediately before it triggers.

    As for the totem tier; TP is about protecting totems from destruction or placing them with less risk to yourself. The other two are about using totems more often; Totemic Restoration almost halves the cooldown on Grounding Totem, used properly. Call of the Elements lets you pop utility totems like Grounding back to back. They serve their purpose just fine. If you're finding it "useless", it's because you're not using totems enough to make it worthwhile, which brings us around to pointing out that you're complaining about something that, by your own admission, isn't much of an issue.

    There's issues that could be worked on, but deliberately ignoring the tools we have to address the issue, to exaggerate the problem beyond what is reasonable or accurate, is not helpful discussion.
    As Enhance you don't really have a free glyph slot for vigor.....you have to glyph GW, then heal storm is almost mandatory cause its just overall too good to pass up, and there are many other 3rd glyph choices that are more useful then vigor like SR or hex. But my point about totems is that they should have the HP as a standard part of all totems, not a band-aid fix thru glyphs.....they deserve HP, a 5min cd stormlash shoudl not be killable in one hit when even blust/hero takes multiple dispels to remove off an enemy group.

    The totem tier is lame, I think your on your own thinking its not. They should have just made TP a Shaman spell, adjusted a few totem CD's, and made that tier something entirely different and more unique and interesting/useful like a mobility tier. And this whole scenario of hiding a totem out of los or TP'ing it doesn't always work in the game, you don't always have LOS....you could port it out of your own range so its of no help to you either, and there are still plenty of range spells that can reach 30-40yds away and instantly kill several totems.

    I'm not ignoring the tools we have, I'm saying its not enough or doesn't work as well as they used to. Grounding totem not being restricted by other air totems is a good start, to protect air totems like CPT and Stormlash.....before a fire nova could be protected with grounding. We lost our stoneclaw bubble on other totems, a spell on like a 1min cd that shields all currently active totems with a small absorb shield would mimic that and be a very useful example of active defense for our totems.

  15. #15
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Protoman View Post
    Don't know why they stuck Shaman with the most vulnerable and least effective aoe stun out there, with no real way to protect it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Protoman View Post
    As Enhance you don't really have a free glyph slot for vigor.....you have to glyph GW, then heal storm is almost mandatory cause its just overall too good to pass up, and there are many other 3rd glyph choices that are more useful then vigor like SR or hex.
    You keep saying this, but repetition doesn't make it true.

    The glyph is there. If there are other glyphs that you feel are more important, then what you're actually saying is "totem health isn't important enough for me to glyph for it". Which is fine.

    But you can't then argue that totem health is a huge gamebreaking issue. Because the fact is; the glyph is there. You are choosing to not take it, in favor of other things. This means it's at best 4th on your list of glyph advantages.

    But my point about totems is that they should have the HP as a standard part of all totems, not a band-aid fix thru glyphs
    Glyphs aren't "band-aids". They provide situational advantages, at the cost of other possible choices.

    Totem health is absolutely situational, since it's only really desirable for a few totems to begin with, and that only for PvP. It's a perfect choice for a glyph.

    Even if I went with the band-aid metaphor, you're complaining that you've got a cut on your finger. I'm pointing out that there's band-aids in the cupboard. And you're saying it's all the way over there and you don't want to get up.

    Which is why I'm pointing out that your argument is actually that totem health isn't that big a deal. If it were, you'd glyph for it.

    I'm not ignoring the tools we have, I'm saying its not enough or doesn't work as well as they used to.
    Quote Originally Posted by Protoman View Post
    Don't know why they stuck Shaman with the most vulnerable and least effective aoe stun out there, with no real way to protect it.
    There are real ways to protect it. Saying otherwise is ignoring the tools we have. You didn't say "it wasn't enough", you said there's "no real way to protect it". The two aren't the same thing, and exaggerating the former into the latter makes no rational sense.

    If you inflate our issues into something they're not, it makes it more difficult to get changes made. If your issue is "X isn't quite enough, it needs to be X+Y", and you make your complaint by saying "We need a workable X", then all the devs have to say is "you've already got X, next issue?" It also suggests to other users that our issues are larger than they actually are. Shaman are probably in the best place they've ever been, in MoP. Are we completely perfect? No. Most classes aren't, if any. When you start inflating any remaining issues to make them seem as if they're as worrisome as, say, Elemental's complete lack of any damage reduction/mitigation tools was in Cataclytsm, you make the class seem worse off than it is.

    It's essentially a Zeno's Paradox in reverse; you've decided that Shaman are broken, and it doesn't matter how much we get caught up, you point to the remaining minor issues and act as if it's just as big of a gap.
    We lost our stoneclaw bubble on other totems, a spell on like a 1min cd that shields all currently active totems with a small absorb shield would mimic that and be a very useful example of active defense for our totems


    If you're looking for a time when Shaman used Stoneclaw Totem to protect totems, you're looking back to pre-Ulduar. 3.1 brought in the glyph, which turned it into a personal shield, and THAT is why Stoneclaw Totem became a useful tool in PvP. Not the totem shield effect. Prior to 3.1, Stoneclaw Totem was primarily considering a soloing tool, not something that was much use at all in PvP.
    Last edited by Endus; 2012-10-21 at 08:31 PM.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Protoman View Post
    The range is one of it's few strong points.....8yds is larger radius then most aoe stuns which are like 3-5yds, plus with TP you can plant it much farther. It's greatest weak point and what makes it so much more inferior is the fact that it's not instant like all other aoe stuns plus you can kill it before it goes off....I would really like to see those weak points addressed, although totem HP is a larger issue then just CPT.


    As Enhance you don't really have a free glyph slot for vigor.....you have to glyph GW, then heal storm is almost mandatory cause its just overall too good to pass up, and there are many other 3rd glyph choices that are more useful then vigor like SR or hex. But my point about totems is that they should have the HP as a standard part of all totems, not a band-aid fix thru glyphs.....they deserve HP, a 5min cd stormlash shoudl not be killable in one hit when even blust/hero takes multiple dispels to remove off an enemy group.

    The totem tier is lame, I think your on your own thinking its not. They should have just made TP a Shaman spell, adjusted a few totem CD's, and made that tier something entirely different and more unique and interesting/useful like a mobility tier. And this whole scenario of hiding a totem out of los or TP'ing it doesn't always work in the game, you don't always have LOS....you could port it out of your own range so its of no help to you either, and there are still plenty of range spells that can reach 30-40yds away and instantly kill several totems.

    I'm not ignoring the tools we have, I'm saying its not enough or doesn't work as well as they used to. Grounding totem not being restricted by other air totems is a good start, to protect air totems like CPT and Stormlash.....before a fire nova could be protected with grounding. We lost our stoneclaw bubble on other totems, a spell on like a 1min cd that shields all currently active totems with a small absorb shield would mimic that and be a very useful example of active defense for our totems.
    Well, I'll just have to agree to disagree. For the most part, I don't use TP, not because I don't like it, I just prefer TR. And yes, I happen to like that tier in general. I don't know what its like for the spec you play but for ele they are all viable. The movement issues you're having need to be addressed seperately from the talents, they're specific to enhancement. Having an insant stun would work out great for enhancement, wouldn't work out so great for resto or ele. At least now I have the option of throwing it if i want, if it becomes instant I can't do that. I'd have to be in melee range anytime I want to use it, no thank you. So yeah, the range works out for you because you're melee, doesn't always work out for me because I'm ranged.
    These words in my mouth... where did they come from? I don't think I'm the one that put them there...

  17. #17
    Well they could always make CPT like a warlocks' Shadowfury (baseline). Shadowfury has only a 3sec stun, but half the cooldown, so it would be pretty much balanced.

    All that "you can somehow make it work"-talk kinda annoys me, because other classes do not even have to start think about something like that.
    Warrior, Rogue, Druid, Warlock, Mage, Paladin, they just use their stun and that's it. We have to be strategic to no end to get the same benefit.
    And that's not the first time it has been like that; Our 4.1 aoe, our hex, our gap-closing, now our stun (and that's just what I can think of above the top of my head).

    Stuff others have seems to mostly often follow the principle: push the button => profit
    Stuff shamans get on a regular basis is more like: look out for v, glyph x, talent y, make sure z is in place AND THEN hope the last 25% you're in luck/target is dumb

    That's not about skill-cap. If CPT were, like, totally op as an ability, sure why not, give it major drawbacks.
    Fact is however: CPT isn't THAT powerful in comparison with other stuns. 5 sec duration is common, 1min cd is pretty long when compared to mages/rogues (though those have additional requirements (target snared, combopoints)I'll give them that) but at the same level as paladin/warrior.
    Atm the only thing that makes it noticeable is the aoe component. Granted, if not for any of the current drawbacks, CPT would likely be among the two or three best stuns ingame, but it wouldn't be brokenly good either.

    And it is not like we have amazingly good CC outside of that. Shamans were in dire need of something new. We have Hex, which just like CPT has a lot of drawbacks from many different CCs mixed into one ability, with the one upside being that it is a curse (which can be removed by often encountered mages and two popular healers, shamans and druids(did I forget a class/spec?) at the least, not mentioning ice block and similar stuff).

    Having so many severe drawbacks on CPT without a balancing strong point makes it the worst stun to use, simple as that. I just dont get how blizz, with like a decade of experience creating and developing this game got the idea to deviate from the time-proven mechanics and slap us with...that.

    If there are other glyphs that you feel are more important, then what you're actually saying is "totem health isn't important enough for me to glyph for it".
    Funny thing is:
    You keep saying this, but repetition doesn't make it true.
    True story, you've said something along those lines at least once. Others dont even have to argue about easily countered stuns and the like. Only us. Totem health IS an issue. Just try and make other classes' utility all have 5hp and see how they'd react. The answer is an outbreak of QQ.
    Enh has an issue of mobility and relies heavily on selfheal in pvp. As a result two glyph spots are taken up immidiately. With TP, GoTV may or may not actually prove as more useful as GoCPT, in which case, yes, some people would probably take it.
    Just because there are glyphes overshadowing TV's gain, and glyph spots being highly limited, doesn't mean CPT hp is automatically fine and no topic to critically discuss.

    It's like you're saying: You can chose to do three out of four things: eat, sleep, drink or breath. Now chose
    Whatever you chose to not take doesn't make it any less important. Breathing would be more immidiate a concern, with drinking being second. Still, you'd die with not having one of those four. Similar an enh will have several aspects in which he sucks. He can chose to cover up the most pressing ones, but will still be lacking(dieing due to competitive-issues)in the end.

    Well, the lacking survivability of our new totem system is one of the prime reasons I didn't bother resubbing.
    Last edited by Omanley; 2012-10-21 at 09:32 PM.
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  18. #18
    Stood in the Fire shell's Avatar
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    It might be annoying, but frankly pvp would be a lot better off if most cc were like this. Also, 'severe' and 'dire' are not words that I would associate with our cc. Back when you used to play, before Cata, you liked enhance, right? You had hex and yet even with all of its flaws, and enhancements flaws, somehow you managed to overcome them and do well with the spec, right? I'm not being sarcastic, so don't read it that way.

    For me, the state of our cc, while not irrelevant is just not as important as other things.
    These words in my mouth... where did they come from? I don't think I'm the one that put them there...

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omanley View Post
    Well they could always make CPT like a warlocks' Shadowfury (baseline). Shadowfury has only a 3sec stun, but half the cooldown, so it would be pretty much balanced.

    All that "you can somehow make it work"-talk kinda annoys me, because other classes do not even have to start think about something like that.
    Warrior, Rogue, Druid, Warlock, Mage, Paladin, they just use their stun and that's it. We have to be strategic to no end to get the same benefit.
    And that's not the first time it has been like that; Our 4.1 aoe, our hex, our gap-closing, now our stun (and that's just what I can think of above the top of my head).

    Stuff others have seems to mostly often follow the principle: push the button => profit
    Stuff shamans get on a regular basis is more like: look out for v, glyph x, talent y, make sure z is in place AND THEN hope the last 25% you're in luck/target is dumb
    That's beyond silly. Shaman have different gameplay than others, yes. It's not quantitatively worse than others. We don't have extra hoops to jump through that make our gameplay more difficult than anyone else. That is simply not true.

    Yes, we have extra hurdles, because EVERYONE has extra hurdles.

    True story, you've said something along those lines at least once. Others dont even have to argue about easily countered stuns and the like. Only us. Totem health IS an issue. Just try and make other classes' utility all have 5hp and see how they'd react. The answer is an outbreak of QQ.
    How about if you couldn't use some of your spells because you're in the wrong form, like Druids or Shadow Priests?
    How about if half your toolkit had shared cooldowns like shocks do, as it is for Death Knights with the Rune system?
    How about if a bunch of your abilities were only usable for openers from a special stance, and another bunch were only usable if you stacked up enough combo points, like rogues and feral druids?

    The fact is, everyone has limitations and controlling factors. You can't just say "what if we made other people have our restrictions, they'd QQ", because if you gave us THEIR restrictions, we'd QQ too.

    It's a completely fabricated and irrelevant straw man. Yes, totem health is a limiting factor. No, limiting factors are not "flaws" to be corrected. No, Shaman do NOT have bigger flaws than other classes.

    Enh has an issue of mobility and relies heavily on selfheal in pvp. As a result two glyph spots are taken up immidiately. With TP, GoTV may or may not actually prove as more useful as GoCPT, in which case, yes, some people would probably take it.
    Just because there are glyphes overshadowing TV's gain, and glyph spots being highly limited, doesn't mean CPT hp is automatically fine and no topic to critically discuss.
    No, but it DOES mean you've identified a bunch of other things you think are bigger deals that you'd rather address through glyphs. Totem health is pretty far down your list of disadvantages you'd like to glyph away.

    That's the starting point. It's a minor issue, at best. You keep using weighted words, as shell pointed out, like "severe" or "dire", but the fact is, by stating you'd rank it at best 4th in priority for glyph choices, you've decided it's a relatively minor issue. If it were a bigger deal, you'd have it higher on your list, and wouldn't be leaving it behind.

    It's like you're saying: You can chose to do three out of four things: eat, sleep, drink or breath. Now chose
    I can't eat and sleep at the same time. And I can swap my glyphs whenever I want. So I'll swap in the eating glyph when I need it, and the sleeping glyph when I need that.

    In general, though, yes, that's the entire purpose of the glyph system. To give you 5-6 things you really want, and force you to pick 3 of them. This will obviously leave you with weak points you didn't address. That's intended. You're arguing against the entire glyph system because you apparently want to have every possible advantage and never have to give up anything. That's not an acceptable stance.

  20. #20
    Stood in the Fire shell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omanley View Post
    Enh has an issue of mobility and relies heavily on selfheal in pvp..
    So why not address this instead of arguing for health on totems. I don't think the two are as correlated as you think they are. Having more totem health isn't going to magically solve your issue with mobilility or self healing. You would still be using those two glyphs.
    These words in my mouth... where did they come from? I don't think I'm the one that put them there...

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