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  1. #41
    Pandaren Monk WarpedAcorn's Avatar
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    I dunno, I sPvP as an easymode Pistol Whip Thief. My strategy vs. every class is the same. =)

  2. #42
    Every class has different skills, the question is what are the clones good for? DPS/survival? Every other class has that.
    How am I supposed to level without doing damage? How am I supposed to level if I can't stay alive? This statement makes no sense at all. Your sense of uniqueness is completely biased.

    In WoW, if mages do damage by high crits and warlocks by dots, you worship them because it is "a unique kind of damage!!! so different from each other!!!"; in GW2, if a mesmer does damage by using clones, a ranger does damage by commanding a wild pet, and a thief does damage by hiding in shadows and surprising his foe, you say "they all do the same thing, it is just damage!!!". Nice double standard.

    The point is that clones doesn't allow you to do anything other classes can't...
    I don't like to play the captain obvious, but the clones allow you to trick your opponent about your position... at least.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Muzjhath View Post
    I'm a bit confused. Earlier you said "in vanilla WoW classes were different!" And someone pointed out that in vanilla, at level 10 you barely had anything at all. Now you cite how it is today.
    In vanilla WoW a level 10 warlock would be getting his Imp quest, and depending on if they instantly did it or not not even finnish it until level 11 or 12. I do believe that the mage did get frost nova that early, so you might have been correct on that. Otherwise it was the flame spell with no cast time they got.
    No, at lvl 10 in vanilla you had exactly what I said. You can do the imp quest at lvl 1. The voidwalker quest is lvl 10. Yes I'm talking about vanilla.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by nameuser View Post
    No, at lvl 10 in vanilla you had exactly what I said. You can do the imp quest at lvl 1. The voidwalker quest is lvl 10. Yes I'm talking about vanilla.
    I don't recall getting VW before level 20.

  5. #45
    The thing all professions share are boons and conditions, and I can see how that would contribute to a feeling of sameness, but hey, it's not like buffs or debuffs in WoW are functionally different, they just have different names. I mean compare Shadow Word: Pain to Corruption; the two are virtually identical. However the fact that you can instantly tell which one belongs to which class does lend a sense of identity to them, whereas a bleed in GW is just a bleed. It's certainly interesting to think about, and I can see the OP's viewpoint to a degree.

    I have my gripes about the game, but I don't think the professions being homogenized is one of them. Hell, try playing a sword/dagger or greatsword ranger and compare it to shortbow or longbow. Traits help differentiate specs a lot though, so it helps to play around in the mists rather than level 1-10 to see what a profession is capable of.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhinomatic View Post
    I don't recall getting VW before level 20.
    You get him early on, back when you had to do the quests to get him I think the requirement was level 6 or 7 (edit: my bad it was level 10).
    Last edited by Notos; 2012-10-17 at 08:35 PM.
    Q: Where the fuck is Xia Xia, SIU?!?!
    A1: She needs to start making eggs for Easter...
    A2: Drunk and sleeping somewhere.

  6. #46
    How am I supposed to level without doing damage? How am I supposed to level if I can't stay alive? This statement makes no sense at all. Your sense of uniqueness is completely biased.
    I'm not saying only some classes should have dmg/survival, of course every class should. The point is that having self heals for example is not an unique thing in gw2, there's also no room for non-combat spells like portals/conjure food/underwater breathing/path of frost etc and less significant, but fun spells like enslave demon. Because of how the game works.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-17 at 08:00 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by rhinomatic View Post
    I don't recall getting VW before level 20.
    It's lvl 10 for sure (I recently played a vanilla server)

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by nameuser View Post
    It's lvl 10 for sure (I recently played a vanilla server)
    On live servers, you obtain him at level 8.

    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=697

    http://www.wowpedia.org/Voidwalker_%28warlock_minion%29
    Q: Where the fuck is Xia Xia, SIU?!?!
    A1: She needs to start making eggs for Easter...
    A2: Drunk and sleeping somewhere.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by nameuser View Post
    Every class has different skills, the question is what are the clones good for? DPS/survival? Every other class has that.
    Which you can say about WoW. Every class in WoW has defensive and offensive abilities. I played a Druid and Priest mostly. My Druid could heal, and so could my Priest. My Priest had PW:S, while my Druid had Barkskin to reduce damage. My Priest had Shadow Form, my Druid had Moonkin Form. Also, the illusions as Mesmer uses in GW2 can be used for a variety of things. They can confuse the enemy, do damage, provide immunity to the Mesmer for a short time, ect. No other class can do that.

  9. #49
    The point is that having self heals for example is not an unique thing in gw2, there's also no room for non-combat spells like portals/conjure food/underwater breathing/path of frost etc and less significant, but fun spells like enslave demon. Because of how the game works.
    So we moved from "all classes are equal" to "there's no room for 'fun' spells".

    The things you're mentioning are not fun at all. Conjuring food is boring, sitting to eat is boring, walking on the water, c'mon... they might be funny, just like /dance or /train are, but they don't add anything to the gameplay. If you want to cook, walk and swim, no offense, but The Sims might be the right game for you.

    Waypoints > Mage portals
    Out of combat HP regen > Spirit + Food + Water
    Permanent underwater breathing > Refreshing a cooldown every 10 minutes... (seriously, how can that be "fun"?)

    After all, the only thing I get from your post is that GW2 is bad because there's no enslave demon skill, which is completely different than say that mesmers and rangers are the same, as you answered to my first post.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by nameuser View Post
    I'm not saying only some classes should have dmg/survival, of course every class should. The point is that having self heals for example is not an unique thing in gw2, there's also no room for non-combat spells like portals/conjure food/underwater breathing/path of frost etc and less significant, but fun spells like enslave demon. Because of how the game works.
    Well, it looks to me like you're looking for fluff, not flavor...because gw2 professions have flavor galore, but little/no fluff. Mesmers can summon clones, as has been mentioned, which others can't...plus they can put down portals that others can take! Show me another profession that can do that. Guardians have their virtues, and can "paint" shields/barriers/bubbles to protect their allies or confine their enemies. Elementalists have to manage their attunements, engineers have their weapon kits and tool belt. Necros deal in life force. Warriors can use most weapons, and can use shouts and banners to support their allies, plus manage adrenaline. Thieves can steal, and cloak their allies. Rangers have their pets and traps. I see plenty of things to distinguish them, you just aren't seeing the big picture because you're looking for fluff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Even in PvP, half the time I hardly pay attention to what class(es) are attacking me, because the strategies and responses remain largely the same.
    Lol, you would be fun to fight in pvp then. Free honor badges.
    "you can't be serious!!" - yes actually I am.

  12. #52
    Lol, you would be fun to fight in pvp then. Free honor badges.
    Reply = Anticipated.

    Sorry, but there's just not enough variety in how the classes do things to make me really care what class is chasing me. Like last night on my level 22 Engineer I had two melee people attack me in one of the jumping puzzles. I really didn't care what class one or both of them were, because I approached the fight the same way regardless.

    Especially with the melee classes, a lot of the mechanics are suprisingly similar. I don't have to worry about "That guy is a feral druid, so standard roots won't work as well." or "That guy is a warrior, I'll have to stay just inside charge range." or "That guy is a paladin, need to bait the stun and dispel Freedom." etc etc.

    In GW2 it's generally, "That guy is melee! Ok, he'll probably have some gap closer that's broken and won't even actually get them to me if I'm moving, and a couple large attacks that I'll need to dodge. Otherwise, kite around and spam snares/roots."

    Fighting against classes that are primarily ranged typically isn't that different, either. They're either condition or burst and counterable accordingly.

    (And again, we come to the issue of the dodge roll just being too strong and making everything feel the same because you counter it all the same way quite often.)
    Last edited by Bovinity Divinity; 2012-10-17 at 09:19 PM.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by nameuser View Post
    there's also no room for non-combat spells like portals/conjure food/underwater breathing/path of frost etc and less significant, but fun spells like enslave demon. Because of how the game works.
    Oh I see you want all those little gimmicky spells WoW has. Those spells you use once in a blue moon. I can't remember the last time someone asked for a portal to anywhere when I was on my mage, I certainly remember people bugging me for a mage table in BG's (or letting it time out THEN bugging me for one - ffs).

    I'm not totally against this idea of having fun little unique things your class can do, perhaps they will develop them later.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-18 at 10:13 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Reply = Anticipated.
    thanks for letting us know what's on your mind. what server are you on? I want my free honor badges.
    Last edited by MrSerious; 2012-10-17 at 09:14 PM.
    "you can't be serious!!" - yes actually I am.

  14. #54
    Bloodsail Admiral Haggerty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    Well

    My elementalist feels very different from my warrior which feels very different from my engineer. Just three examples there. I'm not sure what you want here.
    Agreed - and to further that...my double daggers thief feels very different to my double pistols thief which feels very different to my shortbow thief...

  15. #55
    The Lightbringer Karizee's Avatar
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    Sometimes it's the little things. For this guy it's mana food. If the game had mana food, he'd love it. (nevermind that we don't have mana) Without mana food he feels compelled to come here and bash.
    Who knows more of gods than I? Horse gods and fire gods, gods made of gold with gemstone eyes, gods carved of cedar wood, gods chiseled into mountains, gods of empty air... I know them all.
    ~Euron "Crow's Eye" Greyjoy

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by nameuser View Post
    The point is that clones doesn't allow you to do anything other classes can't...
    Then you need to take a second look at what they can be used for.
    Benevolence is a luxury for the strong - Wrathion

  17. #57
    Herald of the Titans Jigain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nameuser View Post
    Every class has different skills, the question is what are the clones good for? DPS/survival? Every other class has that.
    Whoa... hang on, hang on. Let me just go back to quote the list of why every WoW vanilla class was different from one another.
    Quote Originally Posted by nameuser View Post
    Warlocks was the Dot class. Mages was the high crit class with slow casts. Priest had the best heals. Hunters was the pet class. Warriors had high melee dmg with plate armor. Paladins never died.
    So let's list them off. DPS, DPS, HPS, DPS/survival, survival, survival.

    So what you're saying is that WoW classes are unique because they had different methods of DPS and survival, but GW2 classes that have different methods of DPS and survival are not unique by the same measurement?

    I call BS.

  18. #58
    THAT is probably the only complaint about GW2 I agree with. I need to level "the more the merrier" alts to be able to farm more for my leggy, however I simply have to FORCE myself to play an alt. I'm more or less fine with my warrior, she's alot of fun, even though pretty underpowered, but just ANY other class is boring me to hell.

  19. #59
    Mechagnome Snakehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Narna View Post
    Each Class has a specific mechanic, Guardians have sigils which provide passive buffs, or when activated do something.

    There are many things, such as fading away, putting up a wall to block projectiles, etc. etc.

    I think you just need to play around with different skills, but I can say this. If you aren't enjoying a certain class early on, then maybe change weapon types, and if that doesn't work, I'd play another class.

    I didn't enjoy the feel of any classes, until I played Guardian.
    This ^

    Each class has a niche but each class can also perform all the things expected in an mmo damage, healing, buffs etc.

    Maybe you are looking at gw2 through the eyes of someone too used to the tired old mmo system. Give it a chance this game is great.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Jigain View Post
    Whoa... hang on, hang on. Let me just go back to quote the list of why every WoW vanilla class was different from one another.

    So let's list them off. DPS, DPS, HPS, DPS/survival, survival, survival.

    So what you're saying is that WoW classes are unique because they had different methods of DPS and survival, but GW2 classes that have different methods of DPS and survival are not unique by the same measurement?

    I call BS.
    I was talking about class identity, each class in wow had their own identity like i said, not so much in gw2. The mesmer clones is just an ability, not really something that gives it a whole different feeling, like mirror image in wow is just an ability, nothing that defines mages.

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