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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    He either asked if it procced of a spell that has no DoT component whatsoever or completely failed to read the tooltip on Brain Freeze.
    Either way it was a stupid question that only served to show that he didn't pay attention to how the class works.

    You also need to look up what contradicting means.
    oh what a great community this forum has!

    I would also ask you to look it up yourself, who are u to choose whether a question is "stupid" or not
    Last edited by sef24; 2012-10-18 at 01:25 AM.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Danaos View Post
    Of course you can use it, you just have to take Nether Tempest oder Living Bomb instead of Frost Bomb.
    I wonder if Frozen Orb wouldn't trigger this. And I was about to point out that the DoT of FFB should be enough to trigger this, but HEY when did FFB lose its DoT? I consider myself someone who keeps informed and reads on articles, but I never heard before that FFB didn't have a DoT anymore. Did they change that in 5.0.1?
    Last edited by scuac; 2012-10-18 at 06:07 AM.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by scuac View Post
    but HEY when did FFB lose its DoT? I consider myself someone who keeps informed and reads on articles, but I never heard before that FFB didn't have a DoT anymore. Did they change that in 5.0.1?
    My understanding was that they took it away. because they made a "better" ramp up system for frost, and made FFB(with glyph) match fireball at the same time to give fire a slow/option to use ffb as a filler nuke instead of fireball

  4. #24
    The Patient Torian kel's Avatar
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    For the debate for wich Bomb to take in Frost, I red on Icyveins that it has been calculated that Living bomb procs slightly higher ffb than any other bomb, and when tried I must admit I average out two ffb per LB, sometimes more (and obviously, sometimes less). Plus, lb is instant cast and no cd, I prefer it.

    My two cent
    Toriankel from <New Hope>, Ysondre, EU. 3rd realm, 662 world. First mage 100 (Ysondre) in 11.5 hours. Currently 659 ilvl, progressing on M Brackenspore (2/7 M).
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  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Torian kel View Post
    For the debate for wich Bomb to take in Frost, I red on Icyveins that it has been calculated that Living bomb procs slightly higher ffb than any other bomb, and when tried I must admit I average out two ffb per LB, sometimes more (and obviously, sometimes less). Plus, lb is instant cast and no cd, I prefer it.

    My two cent

    Cheers for the input mate

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Torian kel View Post
    For the debate for wich Bomb to take in Frost, I red on Icyveins that it has been calculated that Living bomb procs slightly higher ffb than any other bomb, and when tried I must admit I average out two ffb per LB, sometimes more (and obviously, sometimes less). Plus, lb is instant cast and no cd, I prefer it.

    My two cent
    Can you provide a link, because on the regular guide I don't see what you're implying.

  7. #27
    I have the same question but for fire.

    Is this trinket really as bad as mr robot ranks it?

    atm I got
    [Vision of the Predator]
    MIthrils watch
    Light of the cosmos (LFR)

    What would you use? Feels like light and vision should be the best ones.
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  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by mrgreenthump View Post
    My understanding was that they took it away. because they made a "better" ramp up system for frost, and made FFB(with glyph) match fireball at the same time to give fire a slow/option to use ffb as a filler nuke instead of fireball
    Wow, I just checked on wowhead, they also removed the dot from Fireball? I have't played fire in a long time, but now I feel I am really out of the loop.

  9. #29
    The DoT effect was actually removed from Fireball at the launch of Cataclsym, that's not a new thing. Then once Ignite was changed to apply to all Fire spells in MoP the tiny DoT on Fireball became totally obsolete (not that it wasn't before), it was always more for flavour than any actually large part of your damage especially as it was refreshed so much.
    The Frostfire DoT was removed at the same time. As the spell was always meant to be "Fireball and Frostbolt at the same time" it would be a bit weird to have a periodic effect not present on either root spell.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Kimpan View Post
    I have the same question but for fire.

    Is this trinket really as bad as mr robot ranks it?

    atm I got
    [Vision of the Predator]
    MIthrils watch
    Light of the cosmos (LFR)

    What would you use? Feels like light and vision should be the best ones.
    I think Ask Mr Robot may have a bug with LotC. It also weights very low on my frost mage compared to the brewfest trinket, and haste has a higher weight for frost. Looking at the massive difference in the total score they give to each (over 2000 points) I think they simply are not taking the proc for LotC into account. LotC should be better than the brewfest trinket for any mage.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-18 at 11:30 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
    The DoT effect was actually removed from Fireball at the launch of Cataclsym, that's not a new thing. Then once Ignite was changed to apply to all Fire spells in MoP the tiny DoT on Fireball became totally obsolete (not that it wasn't before), it was always more for flavour than any actually large part of your damage especially as it was refreshed so much.
    The Frostfire DoT was removed at the same time. As the spell was always meant to be "Fireball and Frostbolt at the same time" it would be a bit weird to have a periodic effect not present on either root spell.
    Thanks for the explanation. Like I said, I have barely touched fire in the past few years. It all makes sense, but going back to the original point, this Light of the Cosmo trinket seems to force Frost mages away from Frost Bomb. I personally like Frost Bomb because of the guaranteed BF proc. I guess it won't be a problem until I actually get my hands on this trinket (if ever).

  11. #31
    I definitely prefer Frost Bomb for Frost (as I said earlier in the topic) and it feels like the fact that it does not set off DoT effect procs is a bit of an oversight rather than intentional design, but this is purely a playstyle issue.
    The fact that it has so much raw haste makes it an excellent trinket for Frost and using Living Bomb/Nether Tempest does not add up to a loss of DPS. It is definitely a DPS boost to use this trinket and swap bomb if you own it rather than stick with the rather limited trinket choice we have until next week when Heart of Fear opens.

    It is not a DPS loss and certainly not unviable for Frost.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
    I definitely prefer Frost Bomb for Frost (as I said earlier in the topic) and it feels like the fact that it does not set off DoT effect procs is a bit of an oversight rather than intentional design, but this is purely a playstyle issue.
    The fact that it has so much raw haste makes it an excellent trinket for Frost and using Living Bomb/Nether Tempest does not add up to a loss of DPS. It is definitely a DPS boost to use this trinket and swap bomb if you own it rather than stick with the rather limited trinket choice we have until next week when Heart of Fear opens.

    It is not a DPS loss and certainly not unviable for Frost.
    Frozen Orb is not considered a DoT by any chance?

  13. #33
    I don't think it even applies an AOE Aura to the opponent so I think it fairly unlikely, though I don't have the trinket or any other DoT proc trinkets to check for sure.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by scuac View Post
    I think Ask Mr Robot may have a bug with LotC
    I'm fairly certain ask mr robot doesn't currently take talents/glyphs into account...since the talents/glyphs widget says "coming soon". So since Frost (raw, talentless) has no dots, it's most likely ignoring the proc portion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by rhandric View Post
    I'm fairly certain ask mr robot doesn't currently take talents/glyphs into account...since the talents/glyphs widget says "coming soon". So since Frost (raw, talentless) has no dots, it's most likely ignoring the proc portion.
    But the big difference in score can be also seen on Fire mages. I opened a discussion about this in Ask Mr Robot, they replied that they will look into it, and they suspect that actually they may be overvaluing the brewfest trinket.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by mrgreenthump View Post
    My understanding was that they took it away. because they made a "better" ramp up system for frost, and made FFB(with glyph) match fireball at the same time to give fire a slow/option to use ffb as a filler nuke instead of fireball
    The DoT was the old FFB glyph effect. It was removed when the glyph was changed.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by scuac View Post
    But the big difference in score can be also seen on Fire mages. I opened a discussion about this in Ask Mr Robot, they replied that they will look into it, and they suspect that actually they may be overvaluing the brewfest trinket.
    Good catch. I just pulled up my character and looked, and yeah, LotC is pretty far down there, relative to where other trinkets are. They might need to reevaluate all trinkets, or at the very least LotC (and possibly the wristwatch). Could be an issue with how they're triggering the equip effects, but that's something they'll need to investigate.

    Edit: I just looked at their trinket weight list for mages (linked to fire), and saw the LotC isn't listed, perhaps a related issue?
    Last edited by rhandric; 2012-10-18 at 05:19 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by rhandric View Post
    Good catch. I just pulled up my character and looked, and yeah, LotC is pretty far down there, relative to where other trinkets are. They might need to reevaluate all trinkets, or at the very least LotC (and possibly the wristwatch). Could be an issue with how they're triggering the equip effects, but that's something they'll need to investigate.
    They have top men working on it :P

  19. #39
    Hey everyone, I'm from Ask Mr. Robot. I wanted to jump in.

    -Scuac - you're right, we have a bug with Light of the Cosmos. Anyway, we didn't account for the proc. You can see a list of our trinket and enchant procs for Frost Mages here, along with the proc assumptions we use. The value we assign each trinket is the value of the proc itself, by simulating the proc rates in a fight to get the average uptime of the proc'd stat.

    Light of the Cosmos is not on this list, which means we didn't account for the proc. I'll be adding that in today.

    Rhandric - we do account for talents and glyphs. We also account for racials, profession bonuses, socket bonuses and anything else you can think of. If we don't account for something it's a bug (which we definitely want to know about!)

    PS: Thanks for posting on our forums scuac - it's guaranteed we know about a problem then. Otherwise, I rely on luck to stumble across threads like this
    Optimize your gear on AskMrRobot.com
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  20. #40
    Zooper: Good to know. I was just making some logical assumptions based on what the users can see; I take it you use the talents we load with, but don't (currently) give us the option of changing them to see how they effect gear?
    On a side note, LotC isn't listed in the trinket and procs page for mages...and a quick perusal of other caster specs seems like it's not listed at all. I assume that's an oversight?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    Yeah, Rhandric is right, as usual.

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