Fire Mage Guide

[Aquamonkey]

That is the highest theoretical dps yes, but is it the most rng free.. nope.

I think DeathDefier means Int > SP > Hit + Expertise to 5100 > Crit > Haste to 5036 > Mastery > Haste. That's how Vykina is geared. Not Haste to 5036 > Mastery > everything.

[Saegno]

I think DeathDefier means Int > SP > Hit + Expertise to 5100 > Crit > Haste to 5036 > Mastery > Haste. That's how Vykina is geared. Not Haste to 5036 > Mastery > everything.

As a troll mage, wouldn't going for the 5645 cap be better, to insure those extra ticks under lust+berserking+2pcT15?
That would give you +19 ticks, isn't that far off of 5036 and you can still dump the rest into mastery.

Edit- Or are the extra ticks of combustion under lust+berserking+2pc not worth the trade off of higher ignite damage overall?

[mrgreenthump]

I think DeathDefier means Int > SP > Hit + Expertise to 5100 > Crit > Haste to 5036 > Mastery > Haste. That's how Vykina is geared. Not Haste to 5036 > Mastery > everything.

Did you think I didnt mean that? honestly? Maxing crit is still given, but as we should ditch overleft haste to mastery after 5036 can be debaded and there is no real answer to that. More haste is less rng, but more mastery means more potential dps, given the marginals are around few hundred dps even with 540 ilevel. Or thats what sims are telling me..

[Kytal]

As a troll mage, wouldn't going for the 5645 cap be better, to insure those extra ticks under lust+berserking+2pcT15?
That would give you +19 ticks, isn't that far off of 5036 and you can still dump the rest into mastery.

Given that you start hitting these numbers naturally with more BiS gear (there's so much haste it's practically impossible to reforge out of it) the tradeoff for those couple of extra ticks aren't going to change much.

Did you think I didnt mean that? honestly? Maxing crit is still given, but as we should ditch overleft haste to mastery after 5036 can be debaded and there is no real answer to that. More haste is less rng, but more mastery means more potential dps, given the marginals are around few hundred dps even with 540 ilevel. Or thats what sims are telling me..

I gave 5036 haste a shot last night, and yes, while the rotation felt smoother overall, RNG was rough. Less haste means less fireballs which turns into less HU/Pyro! procs, so if your crit is on the lower end, those dry spells will seem worse. Case in point, we spent ~2.5 hours working on H Consorts yesterday, and I had to -work- in order to pick up the slack when my opener failed or I picked up a dry spell at a bad point (i.e. Phase 2 when Suen drops and we lust). My crit % is very low for my ilvl at 530 (we have seen 0 Breaths/Cha-Ye/Megaera neck/etc since we started ToT) which can lead to a less-than-ideal scenario when stuff doesn't run your way. For anyone interested, here's our logs from last night at the haste breakpoint as well as my armory to compare. The only bright side is that the longer the attempts run, the more DPS normalizes. If an attempt ended at a "bad" time, my DPS would be garbage, but if it went long enough, it would edge itself up.

Anyway, enough rambling.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-iapy8q9ieyhyvzer/

Armory

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...inere/advanced

[Myzou]

Small Note: The OP is missing Dwarves in the Alliance races.

They'd probably be tied for Night Elves as dead last though. Shadowmeld/Dodge = About as Useful as Stoneform, for a mage.

[Vaelkder]

Did you think I didnt mean that? honestly? Maxing crit is still given, but as we should ditch overleft haste to mastery after 5036 can be debaded and there is no real answer to that. More haste is less rng, but more mastery means more potential dps, given the marginals are around few hundred dps even with 540 ilevel. Or thats what sims are telling me..

I had to really work on this, but THANK YOU! for spelling out the things that I missed because I don't have such a deep understanding. I'm about 110 Haste under the next cap, so I'm going to dump some of that excess haste into Mastery and see if there is some middle ground which will keep the rotations fairly smooth and still give some nice crits.

Thanks again!

[Menphis]

I've been looking at Kuznam's and Vykina's armory and noticed that they are reforging to Mastery as fire,
and thought they are probably going for a stronger ignite after they hit a certain haste break point.
So I decided to come here if there was any conversation going on. I'm glad I came, since I wasn't aware of a specific number for it

My crit rating is a lot lower compared to raiders (40% with self buffs), so I might run in to more RNG problems(e.g, only getting 20k-30k ignite while using PoM CDs for combustion etc.),
but going to test this out. And see how its like.

[mrgreenthump]

I've been looking at Kuznam's and Vykina's armory and noticed that they are reforging to Mastery as fire,
and thought they are probably going for a stronger ignite after they hit a certain haste break point.
So I decided to come here if there was any conversation going on. I'm glad I came, since I wasn't aware of a specific number for it

My crit rating is a lot lower compared to raiders (40% with self buffs), so I might run in to more RNG problems(e.g, only getting 20k-30k ignite while using PoM CDs for combustion etc.),
but going to test this out. And see how its like.

You still max crit, don't get that thing wrong, but the question is to go for haste or mastery with Living bomb as there is no real haste break points to reach with living bomb. So you have a choice to go for 5036 or maybe 6414 if you want your reforge to fit NT as well. It really depends on your gear if mastery comes better. And trinkets. And RNG on combustion timings.

[Menphis]

You still max crit, don't get that thing wrong, but the question is to go for haste or mastery with Living bomb as there is no real haste break points to reach with living bomb. So you have a choice to go for 5036 or maybe 6414 if you want your reforge to fit NT as well. It really depends on your gear if mastery comes better. And trinkets. And RNG on combustion timings.

Yes, I'm aware that crit will be priority.
If the gear I have is reforge'able to crit, I'll always choose that path.
I'll never be sacrificing crit, cause I'm still really starving for crit...

[Vaelkder]

Somehow, I've managed to reach some numbers which I thought couldn't happen for my ilvl and race (Worgen)

Hit is 5108 (15.2%)
Crit is 16100 (46.28%)
Haste is 7144 (16.81% unbuffed; 22.65% raid buffed)
Mastery is 1992 (16.98% unbuffed; 24.48% raid buffed

The only thing which I did to hit the Haste Cap was to swap out the shoulder gem for the Int/Haste gem.

Should I reforge to lower the Haste, raise the Mastery and put the Int/Crit gem back? This is the one thing which puzzles me, as everyone keeps saying Crit and Haste over all.

If I dump Haste, I can add to Mastery, making it 3816 (I think that would put me around 30% buffed), taking Hit down to 5067, having Haste then at 5520, still above the 5036 cap (losing one NT tick) and raising Crit to 16260.

Thank you!

[Deleted]

Yo Vaelkder, I think you should try it out. I tried it out this week and I my dps increased a fair bit.

So prio will be Hit cap > Crit > Haste to 5036 (aim for it, a few hundreds over aint bad, just not optimal)> Mastery

I'm Aìzen from Ascendance on Alonsus-EU if you want to check out my armory, can't link it because I have not posted enough on these forums yet.
Good luck with it and if you have any questions about it I'm happy to help you out.

[Vaelkder]

Aìzen, I played with it, and I think that I managed to get close to the numbers you suggested, after looking at your Armory and what you did on AMR.

I now have:

Hit 5067 (14.9%)
Crit 16100 (46.28%)
Haste 5082 (11.96% unbuffed/17.56% raid buffed)
Mastery 4095 (22.24% unbuffed/29.74% raid buffed)

I'll run more dungeons, scenarios and LFRs this evening, and I hope that it will make an improvement.

Thank you!

[Deleted]

If it doesn't work out for you or you have any questions, just throw me a mail and I'll be happy to help.

[spaace]

5036 is low. There's a benchmark of 8086 for +3LB with meta.. 8085 +2 pyro (without meta)

That's about where I am right now and it feels good.

[Vaelkder]

5036 is low. There's a benchmark of 8086 for +3LB with meta.. 8085 +2 pyro (without meta)

That's about where I am right now and it feels good.

I've been using the Haste spreadsheet which is on Vykina's website, and which everyone has been recommending.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...ZmFYa0E#gid=39

It has the Combustion (glyphed) break points at 5036 and then at 7073, and from what I've read here, and been told by many Fire Mages, it's correct.

I think that Goblins get some sort of buff when it comes to Haste, so I really don't know...

So much to learn.

[spaace]

532 ilvl? Words are taken from my mouth...

It has the Combustion (glyphed) break points at 5036 and then at 7073, and from what I've read here, and been told by many Fire Mages, it's correct.

Yah those are break points.. but ideal? Maybe in T14 gear 5036 was good to hit.

Now we have so many more procs to worry about..



(with 5% haste)
8085 > +2 Pyro ticks (great for every-day use)

(with 5% haste, and 30% (meta or lust.. for this I use meta)
8086 > +3 LB, +13 Combustion (and over 31 with meta/lust/zerking) Also for those NT lovers, its also a breakpoint for +8 ticks too!

Giving us more stable damage (from those extra ticks of pyro we may lose when "spamming" pyro). Not to mention with that 3rd tick of LB, it can push the damage through the roof..


I'm already parsing on some fights... other fights, I'm just far enough behind the ilvl curve..

[Vaelkder]

I think that I'm missing something very important, Spaace.

I looked at your Armory, and at your actual numbers on AMR (to make sure that I had a base from which to start), and I saw that your Haste is at 7048, which is 25 short of the next break point, for Glyphed Combustion.

I thought that we were going for the Combustion break points? This is where I am just completely lost, as I haven't played long enough to understand all of the subtleties involved in making Fire amazing.

I feel as if I'm that old man who needs a child to lead him around by the hand...

Anyway, I think that you're telling me to go back to pushing my Haste back up to 7142 and letting Mastery go down to 1992? Aìzen from Ascendance on Alonsus-EU said "prio will be Hit cap > Crit > Haste to 5036 (aim for it, a few hundreds over aint bad, just not optimal)> Mastery," which is what I did do, and that is why I am so very confused.

For this evening's raid, I'll stay with the 5082 Haste and the 4095 Mastery for Heroic Jin'Rokh, and see where that puts me. If my DPS is still average, I'll reforge immediately to the other numbers for the rest of the raid and just muddle through.

Again, thanks to everyone for their input! I'm learning, which is important, and I always get better with every new bit of information.

[Deleted]

Try it out, I found it a lot better for me, but everyone does not have the same play style, some things fits you and some doesn't

[spaace]

I don't base my combustion on base stats.. but what I know I will/can get when need to..

(and i just got a few pieces the other night.. just put them on and kept going. never looked at what stats were.. i knew i lost a bit of haste..)

[Vaelkder]

Quick Update; details at eleven...

Jin'Rokh Heroic 25-Man was cake, even though I got hit with six of those idiot lightning balls. RNG still hates me, but with the Mastery over Haste build, using Living Bomb, it seemed to be all right.

Horridon and Council were Normal, as our guild is still progressing. We switched to Heroic for Tortos, and I stayed with Living Bomb, as the Whirl Turtles are usually too far apart for Nether Tempest to be truly effective.

25 wipes later, with tempers flaring, I was having an opening pull averaging something over 210K DPS (I know, but I'm still learning how to get Ignite/Combustion to really work for me), which dropped down to about 147K until we wiped.

Tomorrow evening (Saturday), we'll be trying it again, and I've reforged to the way that Spaace has suggested, with heavy Haste.

I'll post my findings and let everyone know what happened, and I'm hoping that there will be a big enough difference to help me to decide which is best for my play style.

Again, thank you to everyone!