1. #1

    Just got my T16 4-set--stay frost or go arcane?

    ... pretty much what the title says. I'm doing pretty decently as frost (at least within the parameters of my raiding group, which is all I care about), but with the full four-piece T16 set bonus now available to me, if I can force myself to go arcane, would I see an increase in DPS enough to make the regemming/reforging/etc. worthwhile?

    For reference, my Armory:

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Kousoku/simple

    (I realize that, even for Frost, some reforging and regemming could be done to get better mastery/haste, that's not my concern right now per se.)

  2. #2
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    To my experience the gemming and reforging is no different between Arcane and Frost. Both support heavy haste, heavy mastery, and hybrid haste/mastery builds. I personally prefer more of a hybrid, but do whatever works for you.

    You won't notice much of a DPS increase just from switching to Arcane. It does have a higher potential however it is limited by movement; and many fights in SoO are fairly movement intensive. Your effectiveness is going to boil down to which spec you can play more effectively. Despite Arcane's higher potential Frost has the opportunity to outperform it on many fights based on strategy and player skill.

    I personally have been Frost for the majority of my Heroic progrssion so I can vouch for its viability. At 576 ilevel on H Garrosh I still play Frost, so its more than viable in a competitive scenario.

    It's really up to you as to whether or not you're going to be more effective as Arcane. Your best bet is to just try it out and see for yourself. Get some practice in LFR or Flex before you assess yourself in a real raid. You'll likely need a few attempts to get the playstyle down if yore not used to it.

  3. #3
    Before I quit, I tried Arcane and Fire, before considering sticking to Frost.

    Arcane has penalties for being punished on it's lack of movement (not a major issue but one never the less).

    Fire was pretty gear dependent and on 40% of the attempts on new bosses I was doing at the time. Fire stood above everyone else by about 90-130k (cleave fights), but on everything on normal. Things died to quickly for me to give Fire a spot on my talent build.

    Frost is the only talent where it's simple to play in almost every encounter, be is cleave, soft AOE, single target, movement etc. Frost really doesn't have the worst issues with it.

    If you think you're doing good enough DPS as frost, stick to frost.

    With Arcane you won't see a difference until you really learn to pick up the spec and play it properly, it's one which needs a little fine tuning in it's learning process. (I personally found it boring and didn't stick to Arcane, it simmed higher, but in practice it was lower due to not being experienced in it).

    It's really down to how you feel on the play style. I'm doubting you'd make or break encounters by being arcane.

  4. #4
    At your gear levels, I'm not sure. But as you get higher (heroic level) gear, arcane is going to out perform frost. Especially on fights with multiple targets/cleave.

    But, arcane is much more difficult to play well. RoP is a major bitch to get used to, and having to track mana/2pc/procs/CDs on top of RoP and boss abilities isn't easy.

    I would say if you are interested in doing the most DPS possible and are not scared by having to play a difficult spec to get that, I would go arcane now. Once the heroic gear starts coming in the investment will have been worth it.

    If you're not going to be pushing into heroics, or you just don't really want to be bothered with arcane, or you are more concerned with mechanical execution of fights over your own DPS, or you just like frost, then stay frost. There are no real DPS checks, every spec is viable for progression. But arcane is optimal (if you have frost gear. Fire is equal to arcane).
    Last edited by Frost1129; 2014-03-21 at 08:31 PM.

  5. #5
    I'm not scared by Arcane, but having tried it in previous MoP patches I wasn't really thrilled with it back then. Either high mastery or high haste builds, actually. Definitely RoP is a major sticking point--I don't really like having to put my mouse underneath me to cast it (if there were some sort of glyph to make it just cast under you I'd probably be happier, understanding of course that being able to place it properly is definitely an Arcane skill).

    Fire is completely off the table. Every time I've played fire, the relies-on-critting nature of the spec just turned me off--even when I had the crit to do it. I might give Arcane a bit of a go and see. I'm not swimming in gold, but respecs and reforges and regems won't put me out too much even so.

  6. #6
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    RoP isn't as bad as it used to be since the buff. Micromovement doesn't ruin you like it used to. Most of Arcane is learning the fights step by step and finding out how to minimize any movement you're forced to make. Most of the fights actually aren't that bad because the instances where you would be moving you would be losing DPS as Frost anyways, so the disparity isn't that great.

    The only fights that come to mind where Arcane really has a rough time are H Seigecrafter and H Thok. Seigecrafter has a ton of movement on Heroic, and you can get more casts off on Thok as Frost once the stacks get high. Granted this is just to my experience. I've killed most of the bosses as both specs, but my experience with Arcane on the harder bosses this tier typically came after progression.

  7. #7
    Yeah as everyone has said, if you're comfortable with frost and doing good/competitive dps in your raid grp, I wouldn't worry about going arcane, unless you really want to be the best (optimal) dps, while pushing into heroics. BUT, arcane does have some getting used to. People say it's movement impaired, which to a certain extent it is, but once you master iceflows and RoP placement, movement becomes a lot better for arcance. That's prob the biggest hurdle for switching, having to watch placements of RoP, using IF properly (if you use it, Blazing speed can be used well with arcane too). And, of course mana management...But I mean, why not give it a try, try it on your upcoming raid and see how it works, if its less dps it shouldn't hurt your raid that much (unless you're just horrible at it rofl), so give it a shot, in your gear it might not give it the gain you seek. I switched to arcane from frost at 562 ilvl, and was not as pleased as I thought I would be, so then tried out fire build, and I have roughly 43% unbuffed crit, and I love fire now. but, to each his own, give it a try and let us know how it goes..

    BUT to your original question lol, 4 set bonus is a big effect to arcane, so if you wanna give it a try, do it now.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Hasted View Post
    and you can get more casts off on Thok as Frost once the stacks get high. Granted this is just to my experience. I've killed most of the bosses as both specs, but my experience with Arcane on the harder bosses this tier typically came after progression.

    I wouldn't exactly say that's true as arcane on Thok. I doubt your haste is so high as frost you can get off 2 consecutive casts as frost between each roar, and as arcane you can easily get off 1 cast+an instant spell (fire blast, arcane explosion, reapply DoT) between each roar, what that allows you to do when stacks get high is stay at 4 arcane charges the entire time and never drop your stacks. While you may cast more spells as frost, and 4 stack missile/blast will do a hell of a lot more damage than a frostbolt/ice lance/frostfire bolt.

    But i'd agree with you on blackfuse, that's definatly not a very fun fight as arcane, atleast on 10 man.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by elementstorm View Post
    I wouldn't exactly say that's true as arcane on Thok. I doubt your haste is so high as frost you can get off 2 consecutive casts as frost between each roar, and as arcane you can easily get off 1 cast+an instant spell (fire blast, arcane explosion, reapply DoT) between each roar, what that allows you to do when stacks get high is stay at 4 arcane charges the entire time and never drop your stacks. While you may cast more spells as frost, and 4 stack missile/blast will do a hell of a lot more damage than a frostbolt/ice lance/frostfire bolt.

    But i'd agree with you on blackfuse, that's definatly not a very fun fight as arcane, atleast on 10 man.
    You can't get off 2 consecutive hardcasts but you can get off 1 FB + IL or FFB, as opposed to the single ABlast (or Missiles). I don't feel like AE and FBlast are worth the mana cost. Keeping 4 stacks isn't really the issue.

    But I'll digress for the fact that I haven't played Arcane that extensively on Thok.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Hasted View Post
    I don't feel like AE and FBlast are worth the mana cost.
    AE and CoC actually and yes they are.

    As for this thread I am going to close it, this forum isn't the place to go to ask what spec you should be playing. Yhere os more than enough information in the guides and countless other posts to make an informed decision.

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