Thread: Fire Mage Guide

Page 6 of 81 FirstFirst ...
4
5
6
7
8
16
56
... LastLast
  1. #101
    Could someone help me out a bit here, my Combustions seems to be really low. http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...g/Elody/simple How much should my Combustions tick for? I Feel lucky if I can get around 13-14k ticks, but I get told to go for 20k ticks, wich happens about once every blue moon.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Keske View Post
    Could someone help me out a bit here, my Combustions seems to be really low. http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...g/Elody/simple How much should my Combustions tick for? I Feel lucky if I can get around 13-14k ticks, but I get told to go for 20k ticks, wich happens about once every blue moon.
    I wrote a whole section on Combustion for a reason.
    - If you are not following that strategy, obviously my advice to you would be to use that method.
    - If you are following that strategy, you need to link WoL otherwise people won't be able to help you.

  3. #103
    I did an update on the trinkets today:

    4.14 Int
    2.97 Hit
    2.27 Crit
    1.95 Haste
    1.59 Mastery

    Light of Cosmos (H)
    1218-487 = 731 (reforge)

    40% uptime
    3653 proc

    731 Haste
    487 Crit
    1461.2 static int

    1.95(731) + 2.27(487) + 4.14(1461.2)=
    1425.45 + 1105.49 + 6049.368 =
    8580.308

    Light of Cosmos (N)

    1079-431 = 648 (reforge)

    40% uptime
    3236

    648 Haste
    431 Crit
    1294.4 static int

    1.95(648) + 2.27(431) + 4.14(1294.4) =
    1263.6 + 978.37 + 5358.816 =
    7600.786

    Light of Cosmos (RF)

    956 – 382 = 574 (reforge)

    40% uptime
    2866

    574 Haste
    382 Crit
    1146.4 static int

    1.95(574) + 2.27(382) + 4.14(1146.4) =
    1119.3 + 867.14 + 4746.096=
    6732.536

    Relic of Yu’lon

    27% uptime
    3027

    956 int
    817.29 static int
    = 1773.29 int

    4.14(1773.29) =
    7341.421


    Vision of Predator

    27% uptime
    3386 crit

    847 int
    914.22 static crit

    4.14(847) + 2.27(914.22)=
    3506.58 + 2075.279
    5581.8594


    ShadoPan

    25% uptime
    3595 crit

    1079 Int
    898.75 static crit

    4.14(1079) + 2.27(898.75)=
    4467.06 + 2040.1625 =
    6507.2225


    Zen Alch

    751- 300 = 451 (reforge)

    25% uptime
    4561 int

    451 Mastery
    300 Crit
    1140.25 int

    1.59(451) + 4.14(1140.25) + 2.27(300)=
    717.09 + 4720.635 + 681=
    6118.725


    Essence of Terror (H)

    18% uptime
    7796

    1300 Int
    1403.23 haste

    1.95(1403.23) + 4.14(1300) =
    2736.3 + 5382 =
    8118.3


    Essence of Terror (N)

    18% uptime
    6908

    1152 Int
    1243.44 haste

    1.95(1243.44) + 4.14(1152) =
    2424.708 + 4769.28 =
    7193.988

    Essence of Terror (RF)

    18% uptime
    6121

    1021 Int
    1101.78 haste

    1.95(1101.78) + 4.14(1021) =
    2148.471 + 4226.94 =
    6375.411


    I must apologies. I was using the wrong crit value on the activation from the valor trinket/Jade Magis. I will update that soon. This leads to our trinket ranking of:

    Light of Cosmos (H)
    Essence of Terror (H)
    Light of Cosmos (N)
    Relic of Yu’lon
    Essence of Terror (N)
    Light of Cosmos (RF)
    Jade Magistrate/Blossom of Pure Snow
    Essence of Terror (RF)
    Zen Alch
    Vision of Predator
    Mithril Wristwatch
    Flashfrozen Resin Glob
    Dragonling


    (yes, NM Light of Cosmos > Relic of Yu'lon... I was wrong to reverse that to begin with)
    Last edited by Windry; 2012-10-30 at 09:04 PM.

  4. #104
    How is Flashfrozen Resin Glob that low? If all the hit is used, it crushes Mithril Wristwatch, I wouldn't be surprised if it surpassed vision and the alchemist stone as well. Not to mention the on-use can be timed with your combustion setup and close (~30 seconds) to line up with all your combustions.

  5. #105
    4.14 Int
    2.97 Hit
    2.27 Crit
    1.95 Haste
    1.59 Mastery

    Flashfrozen Resin
    16.6666% uptime
    4232 int

    338 crit
    509 hit
    705.3333

    4.14(705) + 2.97(509) + 2.27(338)
    2918 + 1511.73 + 767.26
    5197

    ^ There's the math.
    Now I know the first thing some of you will do, is contest me on reforging the hit into crit. Here's the thing that you, and all the other diehard fans of Flashfrozen Glob need to understand: you are over-valuing hit.

    As I tried to explained a few times in this thread, most often, when you add hit rating, your overall gear set up (after reforging) will actually end up with more crit (if we're lucky) or more haste (which is the less desired, but more common scenario).

    Yes theoretically, if we were way bellow hit cap and we have to utilize every bit of hit on that trinket, yes it would be better than Brew Trinket (still not better than Alch Stone).

    Realistically however, that will not be the case.
    For same reason that realistically we don't gem:
    Red: 320 Expertise
    Yellow: 160 Crit/160 hit
    Blue: 320 hit
    We also cannot value the full amount of hit and expect to not reforge that into crit.
    Even if we don't reforge this trinket's hit into crit, with your current set-up, we are missing out an opportunity to move haste/mastery into hit on another piece which would ultimately lead to haste/mastery being moved into crit.

    Now the activated:
    Zen Alchemy stone's proc is clearly worth more than Resin's activation... so I don't even know why you would make that comparison. Mithril Stopwatch gives you a stronger proc/activation and it has a higher % uptime.

    Obviously the benefit of Resin Glob is that you can control the activation and not worry about whether or not it procs at the right time. However, any normal opening pull into Combustion will have all your procs up for the 1st Combustion. This is because of the design behind ICD and high proc chance. Simply put, everything's going to proc at the start of the fight.

    So for the opening combustion, both the Stopwatch and the Alch Stone will contribute to a higher combustion. Then Resin Glob will not line up with Combustion again until 7:30 and then 15min mark. Now if you choose to sit on 30 seconds of the Trinket being ready with the 3:00 combustion, that's fine, but then we'll drop the uptime from 16.6666% to 13.8888%. Then you also have to take into account that with their 55 second ICD, you should have a solid chance that both Stopwatch and/or Alch Stone would also be up for the 3:00 combustion.

    Lastly, Engineering is one of the 2 best professions for Fire Mages, and Resin Glob will conflict with Synapse Spring. The other 2 trinket's procs are already stronger, Synapse Spring added on top of that will completely destroy Resin Glob's activation.
    Last edited by Windry; 2012-10-31 at 10:26 AM.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Windry View Post
    Now I know the first thing some of you will do, is contest me on reforging the hit into crit. Here's the thing that you, and all the other diehard fans of Flashfrozen Glob need to understand: you are over-valuing hit.

    As I tried to explained a few times in this thread, most often, when you add hit rating, your overall gear set up (after reforging) will actually end up with more crit (if we're lucky) or more haste (which is the less desired, but more common scenario).

    Yes theoretically, if we were way bellow hit cap and we have to utilize every bit of hit on that trinket, yes it would be better than Brew Trinket (still not better than Alch Stone).

    Realistically however, that will not be the case.
    For same reason that realistically we don't gem:
    Red: 320 Expertise
    Yellow: 160 Crit/160 hit
    Blue: 320 hit
    We also cannot value the full amount of hit and expect to not reforge that into crit.
    Even if we don't reforge this trinket's hit into crit, with your current set-up, we are missing out an opportunity to move haste/mastery into hit on another piece which would ultimately lead to haste/mastery being moved into crit.

    Now the activated:
    Zen Alchemy stone's proc is clearly worth more than Resin's activation... so I don't even know why you would make that comparison. Mithril Stopwatch gives you a stronger proc/activation and it has a higher % uptime.

    Obviously the benefit of Resin Glob is that you can control the activation and not worry about whether or not it procs at the right time. However, any normal opening pull into Combustion will have all your procs up for the 1st Combustion. This is because of the design behind ICD and high proc chance. Simply put, everything's going to proc at the start of the fight.

    So for the opening combustion, both the Stopwatch and the Alch Stone will contribute to a higher combustion. Then Resin Glob will not line up with Combustion again until 7:30 and then 15min mark. Now if you choose to sit on 30 seconds of the Trinket being ready with the 3:00 combustion, that's fine, but then we'll drop the uptime from 16.6666% to 13.8888%. Then you also have to take into account that with their 55 second ICD, you should have a solid chance that both Stopwatch and/or Alch Stone would also be up for the 3:00 combustion.

    Lastly, Engineering is one of the 2 best professions for Fire Mages, and Resin Glob will conflict with Synapse Spring. The other 2 trinket's procs are already stronger, Synapse Spring added on top of that will completely destroy Resin Glob's activation.
    Been trying to say this ever since reforging came out but nobody listens! With int it was easyer to see though

  7. #107
    Using Resin Globule every 3 minutes will align with Alter time, giving a guaranteed 6 extra seconds (17.2% uptime). Plus it aligns with cooldowns, giving the full damage increase to Mirror Images, Icy Veins etc.

    Alter time can easily screw over automatic procs if they occur during AT. If you wait for the procs before doing AT, that adds delay and complexity. The Globule doesn't have this problem.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Tickspoon View Post
    Using Resin Globule every 3 minutes will align with Alter time, giving a guaranteed 6 extra seconds (17.2% uptime). Plus it aligns with cooldowns, giving the full damage increase to Mirror Images, Icy Veins etc.

    Alter time can easily screw over automatic procs if they occur during AT. If you wait for the procs before doing AT, that adds delay and complexity. The Globule doesn't have this problem.
    Nope, alter time does not affect any cooldown, so ICD's of other trinkets still continue ticking down while alter time and dont revert at all..

  9. #109
    No, he is quite accurate. You have to track your ICDs for procs or you can lose them if you pop Alter Time before they proc. Meaning you must delay your AT (by ICD remaining+time to proc) if your ICD is up within the next 6 seconds or else you can lose the entire effect of your proc.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Bhorin View Post
    No, he is quite accurate. You have to track your ICDs for procs or you can lose them if you pop Alter Time before they proc. Meaning you must delay your AT (by ICD remaining+time to proc) if your ICD is up within the next 6 seconds or else you can lose the entire effect of your proc.
    Yerr I understood what he wrote wrong, but still it wont affect much, cause its 6 second window and you only should pop AT while procs are ticking if possible..

  11. #111
    Uh, excuse my ignorance, but how does the flashfrozen resin glob interact with synapses springs? Does using one incur some sort of cooldown with the other?

  12. #112
    Using any on-use trinket activates a short cooldown on Synapse Springs, and vice versa.

  13. #113
    Ah, hm, noted then.

  14. #114
    I won a RF Light of the Cosmos today, and thought nothing of it. Hadn't checked this thread in a while but did and saw that you put light of the cosmos above my jade magistrate. I instantly though "no way" but I put it on reforged, and simmed myself, jeez.... my shadow priest and warlock raid members are gonna be pissed.

  15. #115
    Is that Mithril Watch proc really that good? One of our mages got the shado pan one, and if he replaces the Mithril one with it he gains 296 crit and 600 hit (and a dragonling) over just the proc of the Watch, and that just feels very iffy to me.

    Also with combustion, even if using the combustion method, the rng monster will strike from time to time giving you a terrible combustion after the combo. Is it then better to hold of for just a good ol regular Pyrocrit for a somewhat decent combustion or is the increased cooldown/non-usage of Conbustion that it entails not worth it?

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Keske View Post
    Is that Mithril Watch proc really that good? One of our mages got the shado pan one, and if he replaces the Mithril one with it he gains 296 crit and 600 hit (and a dragonling) over just the proc of the Watch, and that just feels very iffy to me.

    Also with combustion, even if using the combustion method, the rng monster will strike from time to time giving you a terrible combustion after the combo. Is it then better to hold of for just a good ol regular Pyrocrit for a somewhat decent combustion or is the increased cooldown/non-usage of Conbustion that it entails not worth it?
    I would hardly call mithril watch good when its getting beaten by ilevel 463 blue trinket..

    Oh and sims for me at least are giving higher score for Predator than blossom with starter hero..

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by mrgreenthump View Post
    I would hardly call mithril watch good when its getting beaten by ilevel 463 blue trinket..

    Oh and sims for me at least are giving higher score for Predator than blossom with starter hero..
    It's ranked as above the dragonling, hence why I asked. since I get 900 crit (due tohaving to reforge) from both. it still leaves 900 stats vs a proc.

  18. #118
    Blademaster
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    37
    nice guide and especially nice ongoing discussion so far!
    i'd appreciate if you'd have a minute to imagine the following:

    if you have a pyro proc up and heating up, do you:

    -shoot the pyro and go on with fireball
    -hardcast a fireball and shoot the pyro afterwards, so the probability for another pyro is higher as your pyro and your fireball are able to proc it in case one of them crits
    (-)only shoot the pyro instantly if your pyro-dot is down?

    never seen any math about this topic so far...is it because nobody thought of it or cause it's plain stupid and i don't see the flaw?


    EDIT: ofc this is just in case you have to refresh your magebomb before you fire your pyro as you wouldn't have enough time to react without a gcd in between.
    Last edited by arynzr; 2012-11-01 at 02:38 PM.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by arynzr View Post
    nice guide and especially nice ongoing discussion so far!
    i'd appreciate if you'd have a minute to imagine the following:

    if you have a pyro proc up and heating up, do you:

    -shoot the pyro and go on with fireball
    -hardcast a fireball and shoot the pyro afterwards, so the probability for another pyro is higher as your pyro and your fireball are able to proc it in case one of them crits
    (-)only shoot the pyro instantly if your pyro-dot is down?

    never seen any math about this topic so far...is it because nobody thought of it or cause it's plain stupid and i don't see the flaw?


    EDIT: ofc this is just in case you have to refresh your magebomb before you fire your pyro as you wouldn't have enough time to react without a gcd in between.
    I think most people believe there's no difference between the first two. Truth is, I haven't really thought about it.
    Last edited by Windry; 2012-11-02 at 09:21 AM.

  20. #120
    Hi, nice guide thx.
    Can you explain where do I get these stats


    Quote Originally Posted by Windry View Post
    My Current Stat Weights:
    4.14 Int
    2.97 Hit
    2.27 Crit
    1.95 Haste
    1.59 Mastery

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •