Thread: Fire Mage Guide

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  1. #221
    Now that TES Heroic is comming out next week, is there a chance of a BiS mage Gear list comming out that takes into account the gear from all the raids?

  2. #222
    All the old BiS lists (that I've seen) are t14 heroic, ie counting TES

  3. #223
    Oh i am sorry, i havent seen any tbh, was just wondering if someone was still putting them out there.

  4. #224
    I absolutely disregard BiS lists personally so I'm no expert, but from what I can see askmrrobot's BiS generator is working as intended

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by dennisdkramer View Post
    I absolutely disregard BiS lists personally
    You've come out with some really wierd things on these boards the past few days :/

  6. #226
    On one of your posts you say that our BiS is a dagger, I am assuming you mean the sha touched sword right? Starting Terrace 2morrow, want to make sure I know what I want, heh.

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by ogFrenikk View Post
    You've come out with some really wierd things on these boards the past few days :/
    I make it a point to be outspoken about the way I do things to emphasize the importance of skillful gameplay over stat weights and gear.

    The way I see it, there are two reasons to care what your "best in slot" gear is
    A) You are in a hardcore progression guild and want to get the best possible gear setup for when the next tier releases
    B) You need to know what the best things are to spend DKP/GP on

    Even still, our "best in slot" setups are a bit subjective due to the way that simcraft, and therefore stat and gear weighting is modeled. Its worth noting (if you've been around awhile you probably know this, but for the noobs-) that a piece of gear might not actually be your best in slot until you have the *entire* gear setup.

    Also, the diffrence in dps between *some* pieces of gear is so minescule that the fact that it's on your BiS list really should not be a factor at all.

  8. #228
    Hi guys,

    So last week StX3 brought up a point about the basic rotation for fire mages. He referenced a thread by Elpadrino that explained an interesting interaction as follows:

    When you have the instant-pyro buff and the heating up buff.... if you cast a fireball and queue up the instant-pyro right after, as long as 1 of them crits, it will move upgrade your heating up buff to another instant-pyro.

    This essentially gives you 2 chances to roll. This also lead to the filler rotation of:
    HU= Heating Up
    HS= Hot Streak
    IB= Inferno Blast

    1. Spam fireball till HU->proc HS with IB.
    2. Continue to spam fireball till you get HU
    You now have HS+HU
    3. You already have a fireball in cast. follow up with !pyro
    4. Fireball
    If only one of the two(FB/!pyro) crits you gain HS: Go to step two.
    If Both FB and !pyro crits you gain HS+HU: Go to step three.

    I realized a problem with this rotation, however. Unfortunately, I am unable to say for certain which rotation is better.

    I would really appreciate it if someone could make the appropriate changes and simulate the different rotation.

    The best way I could think of demonstrating my thoughts is through a series of scenario examples. For that of course, I have to pick an arbitrary crit chance, and it would vary depending on what you're actual crit is.

    For my example: lets say you have 33% crit with molten armor and brilliance. This leads to a 45% crit chance on a skull mob after taking into account crit suppression and Critical Mass passive.

    Using the Altered Rotation: If you have HU and HS, and you cast a fireball->insta pyro, the chances would be:
    30.25% chance neither crit
    49.50% chance only 1 crits
    20.25% chance both crit

    With this: we can see that we have a 69.75% chance to bump our HU into a HS (as opposed to the 45% chance we'd normally have)

    Now if you go with an old rotation queuing up an IB and using the Pyroblast immediately after, you will not be able to force your next 2 fireballs into a crit (since IB is on CD).

    However, once the first 2 fireballs past, we and IB is ready, we have 100% chance to bump that HU into HS. If you sat on your HS buff, and you fished for the HU buff, you only have 70% chance to turn that buff into HS and you lose the opportunity to queue fireball -> IB.

    So, with this altered rotation, we have a trade off of:
    25% bonus chance to get a HS right after pyro
    but at the cost of:
    30% less chance to get a HS after pyro (when the first 2 fireballs afterwards do not crit)
    ^ this of course would probably be around 9% less chance in general.

    The problem is: the first two spells after HS Pyro aren't always fireball. For instance, if your next spell is going to be evocate after this pyro, it makes obvious sense not to wait for a HU buff before casting the pyro. Mage Bomb and level 90 talents of course complicate the subject, so really the only thing I can say is, I don't really know which way is better. It'd be nice if someone could make a simulation for it.

  9. #229
    Moderator Shangalar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dennisdkramer View Post
    I make it a point to be outspoken about the way I do things to emphasize the importance of skillful gameplay over stat weights and gear.

    The way I see it, there are two reasons to care what your "best in slot" gear is
    A) You are in a hardcore progression guild and want to get the best possible gear setup for when the next tier releases
    B) You need to know what the best things are to spend DKP/GP on

    Even still, our "best in slot" setups are a bit subjective due to the way that simcraft, and therefore stat and gear weighting is modeled. Its worth noting (if you've been around awhile you probably know this, but for the noobs-) that a piece of gear might not actually be your best in slot until you have the *entire* gear setup.

    Also, the diffrence in dps between *some* pieces of gear is so minescule that the fact that it's on your BiS list really should not be a factor at all.
    Oh I shiver at the memories of the arguments and discussions on Majordomo Staghelm HC necklace vs. T13 Valor necklace. But we're all learning new stuff every day around here.

  10. #230
    I believe BiS list is:

    BIS
    Helm: Tier - Sha (tos)
    Neck: World Cachabon - Will of Emp (msv)
    Shoulder: Tier - Lei Shi (tos)
    Back: Cloak of Overwhelming Corruption (Elite) - Protectors (tos) or Stormwake Mistcloak - Garalon (hof)
    Chest: Tier - Empress (hof)
    Bracer: Gleaming Moth's - Vizor Zor (hof)
    Gloves: Tier - Wind Lord (hof)
    Belt: Sorc Belt of Final Boss - Random Boss Drop(tos)
    Legs: Dread Woven Legs - Sha (tos)
    Boots: Sandels Unbidden - Garalon (hof)
    Ring: Fragment of Fear - Vizor Zor (hof)
    Ring: Wretched Flames - Galleon (WB)
    Trinket: Light of the Cosmos - Elegon (msv)
    Trinket: Essence of Terror - Sha (tos)
    Weapon: Loshan - Tsulong (tos) > Regail's Crackling Dagger (Elite) - Protectors (ter)
    OH: Tornado Summon - Bladelord Tayak (hof)

    Note:
    - It's my belief atm that 4pc is not a big deal for Fire Mages, but 2pc is.
    - Personally I am going to use 2pc (chest/gloves) until everyone else in my guild gets their 4pc, and in the meantime I will be using the Helm off Will of the Emperor and the shoulders off Gara'jal.

    - In case people did not understand: Protectors of the Endless (1st boss in ToS) will drop different ilvl based off which order you kill them in. Just like Iron Council in Ulduar, if you leave Kaolan up last the ilvl will be: 503 (normal) and 516 (heroic) as opposed to the 496 (normal) and 509 (heroic) of the rest of ToS/HoF.
    - 509 Loshan (with legendary gem) > 516 Regail's > 509 Loshan (without legendary gem) > 509 Regail's > 502 Elegon Wand
    - 516 Cloak of Overwhelming Corruption > 509 Stormwake Mistcloak > 509 Cloak of Overwhelming Corruption
    (I need to check the math to make sure 516 Cloak of Overwhelming Corruption > 509 Stormwake Mistcloak... will do so tomorrow)

    Lastly: This week apparently using their bonus roll when killing Protectors of the Endless with Kaolan last (which is ridiculously easy... nothing like leaving Steelbreaker up last), people were getting 516 loot even though they were killing it on normal.

    My guild killed PoE with Kaolan last, and 3 of us won items on bonus roll. My guildie boomkin won a 516 Cloak off bonus roll and my guildie rogue won a 516 agi ring. I however won a 503 Cloak... so I don't know.
    Last edited by Windry; 2012-11-15 at 11:55 PM.

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by Shangalar View Post
    Oh I shiver at the memories of the arguments and discussions on Majordomo Staghelm HC necklace vs. T13 Valor necklace. But we're all learning new stuff every day around here.
    I admit, ignoring BiS lists does have the self-serving secondary purpose of eliminating drama. I never mind passing my 'BiS' to someone else who wants it because I dont care that its my BiS in the first place ;P

  12. #232
    Hello guys, thank you for an interesting theory about the rotation, I am testing and it seems interesting. Sometimes it does not work out, because IB is ready by the time my HU pops when fireballs do not crit. Also, sometimes I cannot recast a bomb because I am already casting a fireball while having HS+HU and if I dont launch the pyro fast, I will lose HS or HU, so that is a lot of damage lost.
    I would like to also ask: the mage part of this forum is good, but I barely find more of the detailed and theorycrafting information I seek.
    Are there any good sites, now that Elitistjerks seem to be dead?

    I am currently mainly seeking information regarding 4 set bonus. I got it yesterday and I do not know, if I should cancel Comb glyph in order to fully utilize the amount of extra combs. On the other hand, the combs would be much weaker and I would need to set them up every 36 seconds, that does not seem very good. If I keep the glyph, however, I might not even get any extra comb, because I may perhaps sometimes want to wait for PoM and/or Alter Time? I do not really know what to think of this.

    I am using askmrrobot for checking reforges, but also gear upgrades. Rawr seems broken for mages now that Kavan stopped doing it. Robot works on the fly and I can quickly check how much a gear piece improves me, overall it sais I should do 250k dps, so if it sais that a gear piece improves me by 1000 dps, I cut that in half to make close to reality and then just decide on the DKP value for me. I am pretty sure this path is not very ideal, though.

    Here is a path to my char, in case you are interested: http://www.wow-heroes.com/ - zone EU, realm Kazzak, name Aerríe

    I am pretty sure my dps is rather decent, for example, I have 115.000 dps on Spiritbinder heroic (end of fight), but I want to keep improving.

    Today we will be killing Sha of Fear normal, would be nice to have some tips for the fight. I assume I will need IW. I use blink to get to the shielded adds and back. Also, unglyphed comb might be good due to the nature of the fight - not having enough time to build a good comb + the adds have low hp and dont last too long. Also, it would allow me to at least use comb at the start on the boss when I have high dots rolling, as it is, I am not sure I wanna do it, because I may be missing it in case I get pulled to the platform right at the start of the fight.
    "Women aren't idiots, they just think men are, that's why they pretend to be ignorant to the fact that most of their male friends would f**k them, but they really love the attention and most men would love for the roles to be reversed"

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by Aerrie View Post
    Are there any good sites, now that Elitistjerks seem to be dead?

    I am currently mainly seeking information regarding 4 set bonus. .

    Today we will be killing Sha of Fear normal, ..
    Unfortunately not that I'm aware of. There are a lot of individuals doing some great work, but it takes a community like EJ to get a definitive consensus. This site is good for a lot of things, but you're right, some of the in-depth theorycrafting that EJ used to do is missing.

    Whether or not you glyph combustion with the 4 set is going to be a matter of playstyle. Obviously someone will sim it out and tell you that one way is better than the other, but what is much more important the relative damage gain of waiting to get a better combustion in comparison to the damage lost of casting it less during the fight. Personally, I would probably unglyph combustion and use it every time I got two crits in a row. Now that pyroblast isnt a factor, crit Fireball/!pyro is actually going to yield a fairly strong ignite.

    VERY few people are on sha of fear right now, so I imagine the amount of fight-specific discussion you'll get is limited. Plus the most important part of being pro is coming up with your own tips! :]

  14. #234
    @ Aerrie:
    Ya, it's a shame, I feel like the mods of EJ killed off their own site cause they would infract people for asking good questions. I really don't know what to think of the 4pc atm, but if you do find some good about it, I'd like to read it too.

    I can give you some advice on Sha of Fear:
    - I still use Invocation on this fight. You really don't take enough (or any damage) on the main platform if you play correctly.
    - Using Evocate on the side platform isn't that bad, just make sure you don't do it when the archer is doing those random sprays.
    - Death blossom is another good time to Evocate since you're hiding LoS anyways.
    - Scorch is mandatory on this fight. This is probably the fight with the most movement in this tier.
    - I didn't really think about unglyphing Combustion, but I can see the case for doing so.
    - I used: Combustion, Blink, Evocate glyphs
    - Enrage is 15 min I believe? (it's a really long fight) We did TW on pull and again at 20%.
    - I kept the boss on focus to track his energy, and I made sure to keep mage bomb and pyro dot on him as well (even when killing the side adds).
    - I ended up using @focus scorch on the boss A LOT since there's a lot of running in and out of the light zone (and while running between these two, you'll be facing the shield of the add)
    - In retrospec, I feel like I should have use IB exclusively @focus (since using it on the small add runs the risk of it not giving you the pyro if you IB it from the wrong angle)
    - When you are sent to the other platform, you are transformed into a little Sha. I found that you can still cast instants while you are a little Sha flying through the air.
    - The buff on you to track for the fight is called: Fearless
    - While this buff is up, you can ignore all mechanics, stand there and turret DPS (no, you don't have to run into the light zone during breath either).
    - This is another one of those fights that the logs will be all messed up since you will not be getting logs from the people on other platforms.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-15 at 04:00 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by dennisdkramer View Post
    VERY few people are on sha of fear right now, so I imagine the amount of fight-specific discussion you'll get is limited. Plus the most important part of being pro is coming up with your own tips! :]
    Honestly... lots of people should be working on Sha. ToES (normal) is much much easier than HoF (normal).

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by Windry View Post
    Honestly... lots of people should be working on Sha. ToES (normal) is much much easier than HoF (normal).
    Based on what I've seen I'd agree with that, unfortunately many guilds still havent cleared HoF to even try it.
    Last edited by dennisdkramer; 2012-11-15 at 12:17 PM.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Windry View Post
    Hi guys,

    So last week StX3 brought up a point about the basic rotation for fire mages.
    ..... well ok ....

    25% bonus chance to get a HS right after pyro
    Dont you mean:
    25% bonus chance to get a HU right before pyro
    ???

    When you lauch a FB>!PB you have a 24.75% chance to proc HS on the FB and "eat" it with the !PB (Crit/non-crit)

    My gut feeling as I did post back on page 6, you dont cast the !Pyro untill IB is nearly off CD, that way you have a 70% chance to proc another HS vs 0% had you launched your !Pyro immediatly

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by namliam View Post
    ..... well ok ....


    Dont you mean:
    25% bonus chance to get a HU right before pyro
    ???

    When you lauch a FB>!PB you have a 24.75% chance to proc HS on the FB and "eat" it with the !PB (Crit/non-crit)

    My gut feeling as I did post back on page 6, you dont cast the !Pyro untill IB is nearly off CD, that way you have a 70% chance to proc another HS vs 0% had you launched your !Pyro immediatly
    Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but how would your Pyro, which is in midair, eat a HS proc by not critting?

  18. #238
    I am really having a difficult time figuring out why you would take crackling dagger over the sha touched loshan.... on both normal and heroic.

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by Keyblader View Post
    I am really having a difficult time figuring out why you would take crackling dagger over the sha touched loshan.... on both normal and heroic.
    There is a heroic elite version of crackling dagger. There is no heroic elite version of Loshan

    Heroic Elite Crackling Dagger (516) > Heroic Loshan (509) > Heroic Crackling Dagger (509) > Normal Loshan (496) > Normal Crackling Dagger (496)

    How do you get Heroic Elite gear? Go re-read post #230

    Edit: Heroic Elite Crackling Dagger *should* have a legendary gem slot as well. If it does not, then ya... Heroic Loshan (509) with legendary gem > Heroic Elite Crackling Dagger (516)
    Last edited by Windry; 2012-11-15 at 08:55 PM.

  20. #240
    According to dungeon journal, Crackling Dagger only has a blue socket.

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