Thread: Goreans...

Page 1 of 9
1
2
3
... LastLast
  1. #1
    Banned True Anarch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Shadowlag Valley
    Posts
    7,601

    Goreans... (About female servitude)

    Oh, this thread is going to be very controversial, but let's have a go at it anyway.

    I grew up in a rather traditional family, but there was always one constant value through my family and that was that the women were preferably submissive and dependant on the men. The idea that women were the happiest, the most suited to live somewhat in servitude to the men while being able to focus on what made them unique as women, their looks, their appearance, their womanliness is something that was considered as common as 1+1=2.

    It's only when I grew older that I realized that my environment actually was strongly influenced with "gorean" ideals. And as I grew up that way and had been taught that men were supposed to be tough, to look after themselves, to sport a lot, to be strong, but also very strong intellectual and independantly financially, I've always found that I've attracted a specific kind of girlfriend, namely the 'submissive' types, the ones that LOVE and ENJOY to play the role of the supporter, the loving obedient partner that depends on you.

    As I grew even older I found out that well ... You got two types of people: Those who understand the dominant/submissive social interaction and those who have absolutely no clue about it.

    On Second Life, where I spend a great deal of time and used to run some very big groups and roleplay communities, this is supported with a really big roleplay community of several thousands of people (1.200.000 according to the latest article I had read). Where people basically try to build a fantasy world fully based on this:

    http://www.thegoreancave.com/essays/whatisgor.php

    There are two places in society a person will find themselves, Free or slave. Free Persons don't really need much explanation. Slaves, on the other hand, are property, nothing more. A slave owns nothing of their own, not even their name. But this is NOT the Sadistic / Masochistic or Dominate / submissive or Bondage society you may think it to be. Pain or punishment is never delivered as pleasure. A direct quote from the Books says "Perhaps it should only be added that the Gorean master, though often strict, is seldom cruel. The girl knows, if she pleases him, her lot will be an easy one. She will almost never encounter sadism or wanton cruelty, for the psychological environment that tends to breed these diseases is largely absent from Gor." - Outlaw Of of Gor Book 2 Page 53

    To shed even more light on this Master / slave relationship here is another quote: "Marlenus sat down cross legged. He looked on her intently. He studied her. He gave her great attention. I knew on earth many men did not know their wives. They did not truly look upon them. Never, truly, had they seen them. But a Gorean Master will know every inch, and care for every inch, of one of his slave girls. He will know every hair, every sweet blemish of her. In a way she is nothing to him, for she is only slave. But in another way she is very important to him. She is one of his women. He will know her. He will want to know her completely, every inch of her body, every inch of her mind. Nothing less will satisfy him. She is his property. He will choose to know his property thoroughly." - Hunters Of of Gor Book 8 Page 145

    Therefore, on Gor, slavery can be a beautiful thing.
    I figured it's an interesting topic to talk about, because it's an important part and philosophy in my life. I currently have a girlfriend who I've met through this roleplay venue and we are both very happy together in this D/s kind of relationship.

    I consider this thread as a way to spread awareness that not all women HATE being regarded in ways that political correctness might find unacceptable. Some absolutely delight in it, VERY MANY actually, as you'll see that the majority of the roleplayers in Gor in SL are women.

    Opinions?

    EDIT: This thread is NOT about sex. It's a polling simply about the concept of dominant and submissive interaction between men and women, which doesn't have anything to do with sex in my opinion, it's just a small part of it.
    Last edited by True Anarch; 2012-10-18 at 12:03 PM. Reason: To make clear I'm not interested in talking about the sexual side of things, which is at best a minor part of it all.

  2. #2
    TLR-

    People prefer to be able to choose their own roles in society, instead of having society dictate their roles to them. I'm not sure why it needs a post? Its an obvious idea that if someone has options they will choose one of those options, and that people are different and will choose different options. Equality is about getting those options, not about forcing everyone into a specific option.

  3. #3
    Ehm...
    I hope you do realize that this kind of thing is fantasy, right?
    I would like to add to that that it is very much a sexual fetish thing, based on power-play BDSM-style. The administration of pain or punishment might not be done for pleasure, but the threat of this punishment certainly is.

    Also: I'll just go ahead and warn your that this is probably not a good thing to discuss here. A lot of people (myself included) will feel that taking this beyond fetish is absolutely horrendous and disgusting. A lot of people will question your masculinity for your emotional need for power (I'm assuming you're male because of your focus on the male side of the story).
    This will lead to open hostilities, and, eventually, a locked thread.

    But the main thing I wish to impress upon you is: Your personal position as a person who likes to be dominant (over women) counts for nothing in an environment where equality is perhaps the most elevated virtue.

    My personal opinion: Sure; power role-play. Fine. However, the moment you start to apply it to everyday life, you are being abusive and, to my mind at least, downright evil.

  4. #4
    I am Murloc! ita's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Malmö
    Posts
    5,170
    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    TLR-

    People prefer to be able to choose their own roles in society, instead of having society dictate their roles to them. I'm not sure why it needs a post? Its an obvious idea that if someone has options they will choose one of those options, and that people are different and will choose different options. Equality is about getting those options, not about forcing everyone into a specific option.
    This, I wouldnt want to be some mans slave.. ever!

    And I only clicked because I thought you misspelled Koreans
    Remember remember the fifth of November
    Gunpowder, treason and plot.
    I see no reason why gunpowder, treason
    Should ever be forgot...

  5. #5
    I feel like this is a clear violation of the sexuality rule.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchor View Post
    The idea that women were the happiest, the most suited to live somewhat in servitude to the men while being able to focus on what made them unique as women, their looks, their appearance, their womanliness is something that was considered as common as 1+1=2.
    It's not that I have a problem with people who's into BDSM, but Goreans always rubbed me the wrong way (not just because I first heard about it in this story of a Canadian when went to the UK to join such a community, then sent a desperate plea for help because she couldn't leave). If you're personally into those things in the bedroom, that's fine... But having an entire ideology dedicated to assigning roles strictly on gender lines feels like a throwback to the Dark Ages. And extending that ideology to normal everyday life (i.e. as opposed to a bedroom fetish/fantasy) is simply abhorrent to me.

    Do what makes you feel good because you like it, not because of some "idea" that is manifestly not true.


    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchor View Post
    I consider this thread as a way to spread awareness that not all women HATE being regarded in ways that political correctness might find unacceptable. Some absolutely delight in it, VERY MANY actually
    It's not like 50 Shades of Grey wasn't a bestseller or anything...


    as you'll see that the majority of the roleplayers in Gor in SL are women.
    Yeah well you were looking at one specific subculture. Also fantasy =/= reality, which is the whole point of second life.
    Last edited by semaphore; 2012-10-18 at 10:57 AM.

  6. #6
    Banned True Anarch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Shadowlag Valley
    Posts
    7,601
    Quote Originally Posted by Stir View Post
    Ehm...
    I hope you do realize that this kind of thing is fantasy, right?
    I'm not sure I can agree with that. Considering that Gor in Second Life is considered the biggest roleplay community in the world and anyone who takes part in it knows that there is A LOT of bleeding over into real life going on there. People meet in Second Life and it often quickly turns into something Real Life.

    For more information there are several high trafficed forums you can look into:
    http://www.gor-sl.com
    http://www.goreanforums.com

    The most popular venue of them all is probably this:
    http://portkar.info/ - A virtual gorean city based around pirates and crime.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-18 at 10:57 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by semaphore View Post
    I feel like this is a clear violation of the sexuality rule.
    I was considering this but then felt like it wasn't because I'm not talking about or interested in talking about the sexuality involved.
    I felt like it was suited as a discussion simply about the concept of dominant and submissive interaction between men and women, which doesn't have anything to do with sex in my opinion, it's just a small part of it.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchor View Post
    I'm not sure I can agree with that. Considering that Gor in Second Life is considered the biggest roleplay
    Roleplaying is fantasy.

    Going from a virtual platform to real life doesn't change the essence of that.

  8. #8
    Banned True Anarch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Shadowlag Valley
    Posts
    7,601
    Quote Originally Posted by semaphore View Post
    Roleplaying is fantasy.

    Going from a virtual platform to real life doesn't change the essence of that.
    I'd ask you to go check it out yourself before you can clearly define it as roleplay... an often made complaint from "the roleplayers" there is that the majority of the others don't seem to know what roleplay is. "The roleplayers" there are pretty much a minority.
    Last edited by True Anarch; 2012-10-18 at 11:02 AM.

  9. #9
    There certainly will be people who actually WANT the dominant male, submissive female idea for their own relationship. But that's just it: it's for their own relationship, not everyone's. They can be absolutely happy to be that way themselves if it is what they choose to be like; if it is forced on them when they may want a different type of relationship though, that's wrong.

    I suppose that's what we're all campaigning for, isn't it? The freedom to choose how we wish to live our lives, rather than have it dictated to us by arbitrary societal rules. Some people may be all for the husband and wife, 2 kids, nuclear family, etc. etc. stuff... But there's a lot who aren't. Instead of trying to force one type of 'happiness' on everyone, give everyone the freedom to choose their own lifestyle.

    Personally, I don't want children. It may change, it may not, but I honestly cannot see myself with children of my own. It wouldn't make me happy. And yet, I bet there's thousands of people out there who would consider me weird for this decision. I know that my own parents simply nod and smile, dismissing my preference as 'being young' and 'when you're older, you'll know better'. Yeesh.

    It's that sort of societal pressure that we wish to be rid of. Give us the freedom to choose our own lifestyle. Some women may want to be submissive in a relationship, but some don't. Some want to be equals, some want an open relationship, some never want a relationship at all. Allow people the freedom to choose without fear of judgement or blind, ignorant hatred.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchor View Post
    I'd ask you to go check it out yourself before you can clearly define it as roleplay...
    ...you called it roleplay.

    And anyway even those who are not deliberately roleplaying can still be (and probably are) acting out a fantasy. Very few people actually believe this crap (again, as opposed to a sexual fetish).

  11. #11
    Scarab Lord Chonar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    4,472
    <Goofy> Ah-yuck! Gorsh. </Goofy>
    "Don't walk behind me; I may not lead. Don't walk in front of me; I may not follow. Just walk beside me and be my comrade." - Albert Camus

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchor View Post
    I'm not sure I can agree with that. Considering that Gor in Second Life is considered the biggest roleplay community in the world and anyone who takes part in it knows that there is A LOT of bleeding over into real life going on there. People meet in Second Life and it often quickly turns into something Real Life.
    Okies... Let me then spell it out for you:
    Gor is not a real place. It is a sci-fi planet invented by an author who had, as Freud would put it, 'mommy-issues.'

  13. #13
    Banned True Anarch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Shadowlag Valley
    Posts
    7,601
    Quote Originally Posted by Stir View Post
    Okies... Let me then spell it out for you:
    Gor is not a real place. It is a sci-fi planet invented by an author who had, as Freud would put it, 'mommy-issues.'
    Obviously the planet and story setting isn't real. But the philosphy described in those books, based on mostly Nietzsche and other roman or objectivistic philosphies, seems to be catching on and spreading ...

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchor View Post
    Obviously the planet and story setting isn't real. But the philosphy described in those books, based on mostly Nietzsche and other roman or objectivistic philosphies, seems to be catching on and spreading ...
    I'm sure it seems that way in your online fetish subculture.

  15. #15
    Banned True Anarch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Shadowlag Valley
    Posts
    7,601
    Quote Originally Posted by semaphore View Post
    I'm sure it seems that way in your online fetish subculture.
    Until you realize that Second Life Gor is the biggest online community in the world after World of Warcraft... I think that says enough.

  16. #16
    The Lightbringer N-7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,574
    I am a male, I wouldn't like to be the slave of anyone nor be the owner of anyone PERIOD. I'd also hate it if I were forced into a "D/s" relationship since what I would ideally like is a relationship of a mutual understanding and decision making.

  17. #17
    To be honest, the male dominant relationships in the past really do not appeal to me at all. Also, as far as I can tell, my grandparents and their parents never had the luxury of a servitude role. Everybody had to work hard to put food on the table. Further then my great grandparents I can't really look back but my family history is probably nothing special. Just people working their butt off to stay alive.

    And for me, I have a great GF with a good head on her shoulders. This is actually a thing I am attracted to. I think it makes more of a team in stead of a 1-way relationship. If my GF was some dumb blonde stereotype of girl, it would be over soon. Let alone a submissive girl that doesn't bring anything usefull to the table. Maybe because I am a little older, that I know what I like in a woman. I can understand how some sort of dominant/submissive relationship sounds attractive but I far prefer an equal partnership if you want to call it that. Then you get some back and forth dialogue and different opinions. Also, if my GF achieves something I can flaunt it a little as well and vice versa so we are not in eachothers way but very supportive. Thinking about it more while I type this and the relationship you propose sounds worse and worse in my mind

    And sexual wise, a sort of dominant submissive thing is far too much for me. I can do without that kind of kinky sex tyvm. I always think people that like that, aren't doing regular sex in the right way haha. We are not complaining about our sexlife at least. But to each their own I guess.

  18. #18
    The Lightbringer N-7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,574
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchor View Post
    Until you realize that Second Life Gor is the biggest online community in the world after World of Warcraft... I think that says enough.
    So what? it is still not real... a fantasy.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchor View Post
    Until you realize that Second Life Gor is the biggest online community in the world after World of Warcraft... I think that says enough.
    By this logic killing living terracotta armies while dressed as pandas "seems to be catching on and spreading" too.

    Your comparison is manifestly absurd.

  20. #20
    Banned Temporary Poster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Posting between bans
    Posts
    409
    I came here thinking this thread is about an alien species.

    OP, goodluck with that islamic fundamentalist society or whatever you got going on there.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •