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  1. #121
    perfect changes, almost no impact on PVE.

    And no i dont think we will feel the pyroblast change in PVE. Well sure we "feel" it but it wont change your damage since it would onlymatter if you could produce another two pyro proccs in that three seconds.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by ripponesan View Post
    perfect changes, almost no impact on PVE.

    And no i dont think we will feel the pyroblast change in PVE. Well sure we "feel" it but it wont change your damage since it would onlymatter if you could produce another two pyro proccs in that three seconds.
    Have you ever really played fire mage in pve?

  3. #123
    This change is completely ridiculous. This is basicly the thing that will put Fire as a specc out of the game, which I can't imagine is something Blizzard wants to achieve. But this sure makes it look like they want to.

  4. #124
    yyyy keep your eyes on mages... why so much hate :/

  5. #125
    All the changes are fine, Except for Deep Freeze and Pyroblast. What the fuck they were thinking when they pencilled those two in, I have no idea


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  6. #126
    Dreadlord Cycobi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicc View Post
    All the changes are fine, Except for Deep Freeze and Pyroblast. What the fuck they were thinking when they pencilled those two in, I have no idea
    Apparently:

    a) Changes might not make it to live
    b) Pyro CD will be affected by Haste, which makes the change not-so-bad. (Source: http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/2...iors-still-op/)
    Just means instead of 7.5% (Glyphed) or 5% (unglyphed) we'll probably try and reforge to a new breakpoint so that the CD is roughly coherent with Fireball's cast time. The Combustion change with pyro on just a global makes it too easy for mages to build ignites and thus get stupid DPS.

    Deep Freeze and RoF changes are PvP-based. Considering that, in 3's, a Deep Freeze that goes untrinketed can very easily lead to a kill, it's understandable.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicc View Post
    All the changes are fine, Except for Deep Freeze and Pyroblast. What the fuck they were thinking when they pencilled those two in, I have no idea
    Completely agree - i can live with all those nerfs (hell they could make Rof a 1 min cd - as long as they dont change PoM) - except the nerf to Deep Freeze. Deep freeze is the absolutely core abillity for frost pvp. Its the abillity wich makes it possible for a mage to cast. And considering how difficult it is to get a deep freeze to stick in Mop(everybody seems to have plenty of outs and immunitys on top of trinket) and how short fights have become - a 50% increase in cd feels like to much.
    What i would like to se them do is; increase the cd to 45 second, but remove the gcd as base.
    Deep Freeze Glyph will then add a Gcd but lower the cd to 30-35 sec - that would be a sensible nerf imo.

  8. #128
    Herald of the Titans zephid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Underskilled View Post
    Are people intentionally not reading all of the changes, or something? It says, literally right under pyroblast, combustion is being changed to only scale off ignite, and its damage is being increased to accommodate that. Fire is losing zero damage, and from the sound of it, it's going to be a lot easier to line up a strong combustion.

    Yes, I think a cooldown on pyroblast sucks, but it's not the end of the world by any means.
    The change they are making to combustion itself is not a problem, they are just removing the pyroblast dot from the damage equation. The problem is that the change to pyroblast will lower our ignite damage because we can no longer get two pyro crits in a row, and that will greatly effect our combustion damage.
    Last edited by zephid; 2012-10-19 at 11:07 AM.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Underskilled View Post
    Basically, the only time the 3 second cooldown is ever going to hinder rotation, or even change it, is when you're heating up, and throw a pyroblast and crit with it. And even then, all you need to do is throw ONE fireball in between that, that's it.
    I think you're understimating how often that happens. It is extremely common to have both a Pyro proc and Heating Up waiting to be used. In those situations we cast our instant Pyro then cast Inferno Blast and then cast instant Pyro#2. That is not extremely rare or lucky, that is the most fundamental mechanism that we all use for building decent Ignites. In an ideal situation both Pyros will crit and we'll be able to force out a third. All very fluid with no delays, just chaining procs together.

    With a 3 second cooldown on all versions of Pyro that can't happen. Sure, we could squeeze in a Fireball instead, but doing that runs the risk of overwriting new Pyro procs or, given enough distance from the boss to trigger the 2.5(I think?) max travel distance timer, for the first "roll" of Ignite to fall off. Now, they've altered the Combustion calculations to equal Ignite now, which is likely for this very reason and Combustion damage probably won't be in an issue in those situations, but we won't know for sure til people are testing it.

  10. #130
    It was hard to have three specs with similar damage, now we know that for pve only options are frost or arcane. Fire is dead

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by zephid View Post
    The change they are making to combustion itself is not a problem, they are just removing the pyroblast dot from the damage equation. The problem is that the change to pyroblast will lower our ignite damage because we can no longer get two pyro crits in a row, and that will greatly effect our combustion damage.
    They aren't just removing the Pyro dot, if the tooltip updates from a few days ago are accurate. They are removing the Pyro dot and making Combustion tick for the same value as your Ignite's tick damage, rather than Ignite's DPS. This means that we can hopefully create Combustions as strong as they are today with an Ignite that is only half as strong. Assuming that that is the actual change.

    The downside is that to prevent this Combustion change being a massive buff they're doing it by forcing in a cooldown on Pyro. I think the theory is that it shold prevent massive Ignites, thus keeping Combustion in line with what it's doing today, but I'm still not convinced that the Pyro cooldown isn't going to be awkward.

    Obviously it's on the PTR and open to change, and I'm totally open to admitting to being melodramatic if it turns out to be fine. But right now I'm not convinced.

  12. #132
    Lol honestly good times for playing a fire mage will go away. And I really don't talk about dps either about pvp. I talk about pleasure from playing this spec. At the end of cata when MoP pre-patch was released playing fire was almost an ecstasy with all those fast procs. After I reached lvl 90 and saw new talents it was like 0_o. We are forced not to move, cast evo all the time or be without dps buff from time to time, and now they will again force us to... cats even more and move even less. It would be good change in cata where most of fights we were standing in one place but now? And all thanks to pvp...

  13. #133
    Brewmaster ridish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dethox View Post
    If you did not notice yet, on the main page of MMo- champ ( here ) there are some of the new class changes that will arrive with 5.1.
    My main concerns are these :
    -Mage Armor now reduces the duration of harmful Magic effects by 25% (was 35%).
    -The damage absorbed by Ice Barrier has been reduced by 25%.
    -Pyroblast now has a 3 second cooldown.
    -Ring of Frost and Deep Freeze now have a 45 second cooldown (was 30 seconds).

    specially the part that involves Pyroblast having a cd of 3 seconds. How will it interact with Alter Time after this is implemented? Will us mages still be able to proc Pyro>Alter Time>Pyroblast>Pyroblast anymore?
    I also find it laughable that they put RoF and DF on a longer cd, and also reducing Ice barrier absorb. If they don't intend to tone down the warrior / hunter damage down a bit, this is going to be hell.
    Haste will affect the cd so it shouldn't matter that much in pve i think. It's probably a way to balance the insane combustion you can get in pvp. Still though it will mess up our rotation and make it even more akward than it already was...

  14. #134
    Oh shush you whiny babies. It could be worse. You could be a WW monk.

    As it is, a mage would have to get nerfed by a factor of over 9000 to get down to their level.

  15. #135
    I havent felt this shit about a change since they nerfed the legendary staff. After spending months on it and hearing it get s nerf I was like FFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU.

    Now I feel the same about mages. I read on the blizzard forums that it wouldnt affect PvE..... What BS is that ? I can easily get 3 pyro procs within the 3 second limit whilst on a boss fight, this is a straight up HEAVY nerf for fire mages and makes me want to FFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

  16. #136
    Dreadlord
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    All the other changes are justified except Deep and Pyro.

    Yes Deepfreeze usually lands a kill if;
    A. It's not trinketed.
    B. It's not Dispelled. (Double CC yadda yadda I know).
    C. Other Cooldowns are popped e.g Healer Trinkets / Pops healing cooldowns.

    So with a 45 second cooldown this means. You Deepfreeze, deepfreezed target trinkets. 45 seconds later, you deep again. Unlucky/failed double CC? Dispell. 45 seconds later already 2mins has passed so the deepfreezed target has trinket. If you succeeded with double CC and it did not get dispelled, healer trinketed and you're in the same situation.

    DF change is NOT justified. You can compare Deep to a Shockwave; 20second cooldown for an undispellable physical AoE stun ok.

    The other changes I agree with, Mage Armor has always been abit over the top for Mages in PVP. Ice Barrier is Absorbing 130k for me in pve gear w/ procs (around 110k without) and 100k in pvp gear so I'm not too worried about this change.

    Ring change was also decent. The CD is too short to be 8sec AoE CC if used properly.

    I doubt the Pyro change has too much impact in PvE and I'd be surprised if they don't change it so HS PROC resets the cd.

  17. #137
    And just like the Legendary nerf this will change... pretty much nothing

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by ridish View Post
    Haste will affect the cd so it shouldn't matter that much in pve i think. It's probably a way to balance the insane combustion you can get in pvp. Still though it will mess up our rotation and make it even more akward than it already was...
    Do you mean we have to stack haste and ignore crit? That will decrease our dps aswell.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Desareon View Post
    Its because Mages are to overpower...even tho Warlocks can fearbomb the shit out of you, and Warriors can pretty much 3 shot people at 90 with resli. Mages are just to darn overpowered with they're 15k hits on players with 400k health...
    We can do every five minutes what you can set up every 30 seconds (45 seconds after patch).

    Most of the time warrior hits look like this 13k 11k 22k 45k(crit). Hardly OP compared to what i see other classes do.

    I really hope they change taste for blood as that seems to be where most whineing comes from. Personally i can count on one hand the number of times i've had 5 stacks in pvp. Hardly even see it in pve.

  20. #140
    so fireblast isnt going to prox pyro anymore?

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