Netherspark you said yourself "there is no reason people will want to cast this outside that [knockback/stun] situation", which is clearly wrong.
actually a glyph that removes the knockback AND increases the channeling time by 1 or 2 seconds would increase it's viablility as a survival tool in pve by increasing the no-kill window and preventing the knock back from pushing mobs into unaggroed packs,
it really has no role as a dps tool in either pve or pvp,
well xelnath did say he would make the ability overpowered first and nerf down from there. rather than make it underpowered and buff it
unfortuantely it's still too buggy to determine what is OP about it and what is useful about it.
maybe it instead of doing damage or channeling, it was just an instant knockback and stun (thunderstorm+stun) on a 1 minute cooldown. Glyphed it would no longer cost an ember but it could only affect a single target.
That would make it a kill window opener that PvP player crave so much, and if it does not damage and costs an ember PvE players will avoid it except when they get rushed by trash.
Last edited by Grubjuice; 2012-10-19 at 02:35 PM.
Cataclysm applies a full-duration Immolate to every enemy in range (though, it does not refresh Immo). Also, the applied Immo is double-dipping on Mastery since Cata is an ember-consuming spell, though I'm not sure that's intentional. I can also confirm that it is benefiting from MF, even though the graphics don't change to cover a larger area.
Also, Cata can be used while CC'd.
oh very interesting,
somehow i think double dipping the damage of Immolate is not intended, but maybe it its, , ,
it seems like the application of Immolate by Cataclym IS supposed to benefit of MF and the Stun effect of cataclysm is supposed to NOT benefit from MF,
that is consistant with FnB benefitting from MF and Shadowfury not benefitting.
Last edited by Grubjuice; 2012-10-19 at 02:39 PM.
well then it is what it is.
I know it's not what you want Wholol.
ohthat's right it's Pokeadott who wants the some sort of single target root/disorient/stun as a CB window opener.
which, yes, i aggree, we do need one, Pokeadott.
Glyph of conflagrate should make conflagrate a disorient/root at the cost of a single charge, or something
In general, if you forget the defensive part of the spell, which is OP - just compare it baseline to Capacitor Totem. It's pretty much identical except you CC yourself while it charges and you can't talent into being able to drop it from range as it's about ot fire. For those of you that have played Shamie teams, have you really felt that Capacitor Totem was this unbelievable CC? It's not bad, not great. Every shaman in their right mind would trade it for an instant, single target Stun alla HoJ.
Crazy long activation time abilities have no place in pvp. They just don't work.
It's literally 4 seconds where you can be brought down to 1HP and killed immediately afterward, meanwhile you're channeling a 10 yard Immolate so you can't effectively use that time to heal, set up CC or run away. It's more of a perk that insures the spell gets off regardless to whether it hits anyone or not and really not a defense outside of 4 seconds for a healer to get a heal on you.
Passives like Cheat Death and Cauterize are defensive abilities, stunning/rooting yourself for 4 seconds where you can't drop below 1, is a mild perk. It seems like an answer for getting trained in Arena and that's about it.
Last edited by jackvii; 2012-10-19 at 05:24 PM.
Why should we sacrifice our only snare for a CC? No, we need an additional CC. Baseline Deathcoil for all specs seems great, and Destruction should just get back the CC it used to have in Cataclysm. Problem solved?
Melee vs caster balance in WoD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9F0Ehgx_Q8
Last edited by Supernex; 2012-10-19 at 06:16 PM.
I will burn your soul.
It's absurdly powerful as a self CD. It's not cheat death, but it is usable while CC'ed so it's not hard to get off. It's also not our only defensive. We are going to be way too hard to kill.
Pheonixis and Pokeadott - you guys continuously rally for these things:
* Uncounterable (no counter play)
* Untelegraphed (instant cast)
* Free (no resource cost)
These three things are actually hallmarks of poorly designed abilities or abilities which are trumping other ones. In general, abilities with these three qualities need to be:
* Require Setup
* Limited in Quantity
My examples of problematic abilities in this space are:
* Hammer of Justice - Free, 1 min cooldown ranged 5 sec stun.
*** This was *the* paladin CC. Paladins then bitched they didn't have every other tool in the shed. Players fighting paladins in classic were constantly frustrated due to this ability.
* Deep Freeze - short cooldown, 5 sec stun, requires frozen target.
*** This was introduced and just a better version of HoJ. Totally lame.
* Thunderstorm - PBAE, Instant Knockback
*** This gave an instant AoE space builder, which shamans needed
* Typhoon - Cone AoE Knockback
*** This gave an already mobile spec an even more power space closer
* Arcane Missiles - channeled rapid fire nuke
*** This spell was a clear, well telegraphed shitload of damage, which could be stopped.
* Arcane Blast
*** This stacking damage spell doesn't have a missile and makes it very difficult to locate the caster in BGs. Consequentially, it became a spell with heavy ramp-up.
My favorite examples of where the mechanic *could* be telegraphed but isn't:
* Kidney Shot / Eviscerate
These abilities actually require ramp-up and preparation, but because you don't see the # of combo points the rogue is building up on you, you can't see the attack is coming. In fact, this lack of visibility on abilities plagues rogue and warrior abilities.