New Warlock Spell - Cataclysm

[wholol]

Alright, we just had a huge meeting about Cataclysm. The argument was made that since you can already take an immortality talent, Destruction should not have a "you cannot die" button.

Instead, Cataclysm will be reduced to a 3 sec channel, during which you are immune to all stuns, CC, crowd control, death grip, etc.

there is only 1 talent that grants temporary relief to damage, does that mean you're designing this with Dark Bargain in mind ?

Also removing the unkillable from that ability yet retaining it's overall mechanics ( channeling for a few ) and retaining it's normal cd while simply reducing it's channel time to 3 secs doesn't exactly fix it , I'm still trying to decide what you want us to use this spell for exactly.

Since it's no longer an Oh shit button that means we've moved towards the actual CC/ window opener meaning that we want to use this spell to peel or to create windows in order to cast, we've been focusing a lot on whether melee can be hit by this since they can walk out of it ( since I assume they only get stunned in they're inside the blast radius which significantly reduces it's effectiveness), we've yet to talk about how we use this vs ranged classes , you want us to run up to a ranged class in order to try using this on them ? most of the time they can kite around or stop you from doing so, and more importantly, sometimes moving into the open might place me in a very bad position which could turn into a extremely bad disadvantage for my team.
It is significantly easier for ranged classes to avoid this ability than melee, if we're having problems with landing this on melee we're surely not going to be landing this on ranged classes, the only timing where this could fit the bill is when we're in a position where the teams are stacked or caught off position, in which case good players avoid these situations with all their will so the amount of usage this ability gets the higher we climb the ladder is significantly reduced.

[Phoenexis]

If there are any hopes for this ability to land, then the enemy must be rooted or CC'ed at the start of the cast. SO basically warlocks by themselves will have to use their only available CC on a different DR which is death coil for effective use of the spell. If not, then we're still going to have to depend on our partners to peel for us before we can peel for ourselves.

---------- Post added 2012-10-20 at 10:22 AM ----------

You can counter almost any spell. It's just that the counter isn't so obvious to the nude eye. An ability doesn't need to have "will activate after X seconds" or "will strike if Y happens". This is the PvE mindset vs a scripted opponent, but in a situation where you can read your opponent's and anticipate his moves, it's completely different. Almost every ability is counterable, and there many, many players that have shown this through various footage.

[Deleted]

I'm not PvPing much, but it really seems the spell needs more work and maybe a full redesign. It just seems useless to do nothing during 3 sec just in hope of stunning a blind opponent for 5 sec.

[Rio]

It's official, nobody at all reads the patch notes.


Cataclysm is a new Destruction-only ability. It channels over 4 seconds, applying Immolate to all targets in 10 yards, knocking them back, and stunning them. The cast cannot be interrupted through any means, and the Warlock cannot be killed while channeling it.

Source: Datamined patch notes, build 16155 published 17/10/2012

Wowhead Link, it's not on mmo-champ's yet.

Holy overpowered, Batman.

---------- Post added 2012-10-20 at 07:20 AM ----------

now if we can only get that green....

I prefer purple.

[Solidhype]

I think you need to re-read this thread before calling this spell overpowered things have changed during this thread and its no auto-lol stunning people as it sounds

[paulywally]

MF changes the radius on the tooltip to 22 yards (likely 22.5), though I haven't tested to see if this is an actual radius increase or a tooltip error. The visual graphic does not appear to get any larger, though this may be a bug.

Exactly what i wanted to hear, that's very good, thank you.

22 yards gives it so much potential.

I'm happy.

This makes me so happy.

I just may, jump in the air and click my feet.

[Tya]

So Conflagrate -> Cataclysm is basically unavoidable without a cooldown. That's going to be very fun.

[pokeadott]

So Conflagrate -> Cataclysm is basically unavoidable without a cooldown. That's going to be very fun.

Good thing every class has plenty of CDs shorter than 1 minute to completely counter it...

Warr: Leap/Charge
Rogue: Cloak/Sprint/Vanish/snarecleansethingee
DK: AMS/DeathsAdvance
Ret/Holy: Freedom/Sprint/Cleanse
Hunter: Disengage
Mage: Blink
Priest: Fade/Spectral Guise
Druid: Travelform/Displacerbeast/
Shaman: Ghostwolf/Capacitor totem (luls)
Monk: Roll/Flying kick thingee


... that's just off the top of my head and just the sub 60 second ones, a billion more if we go to the 2+min crew. Worst case, you can always just take the free 3 seconds of DPS time on the lock and instant trinket the stun if you want.

It's an exceptionally poorly designed ability atm. They already nerfed the good part of the spell (what was the right thing to do, it was crazy OP), and like I was afraid of, we're left with the mediocre 'CC' portion that doesn't do much and costs a fortune (time/CD/resources).

Please please PLEASE just give us something normal/functional/useful and not this PoS.

[Phoenexis]

So Conflagrate -> Cataclysm is basically unavoidable without a cooldown. That's going to be very fun.

You can get 10 yards away from the warlock even with conflagrate on you.

[Supernex]

So Conflagrate -> Cataclysm is basically unavoidable without a cooldown. That's going to be very fun.

Both Conflag & Cataclysm have a CD...(besides, like Pokeadott said, every class can easily counter it this regardless.)

[Sierra85]

looks like a fun cool spell for Destro locks! cant wait to get it and play around with it!

[reepa]

im confused, people are crying about a destro only spell, that will make them more viable in pvp and guess what, and this is something nobody seems to be thinking about, how useful this is going to be in challenge modes, 5 second stun? aoe knockback? immolate on all aoe targets? even if it is for 4 seconds thats still a lot of stuff going on with one spell.

[pokeadott]

im confused, people are crying about a destro only spell, that will make them more viable in pvp and guess what, and this is something nobody seems to be thinking about, how useful this is going to be in challenge modes, 5 second stun? aoe knockback? immolate on all aoe targets? even if it is for 4 seconds thats still a lot of stuff going on with one spell.

Because it's meant as a pvp ability. If it has some uses in pve - bonus, but it's designed to be a something in pvp (I say something, because I still don't get what it's supposed to accomplish).

[Kirroth]

I think you misunderstood me. You pointed the very good defensive applications of Cataclysm (which I agree exist). Then I asked, why would I bother with Cataclysm (considering the ember cost and long cooldown) if I can accomplish the exact same goal through Shadowfury, and SF also helps me when I have to go for a kill?

You're talking about Cataclysm like it's a 5s stun with a long windup. I'm looking at it and seeing a powerful AoE knockback with a windup, and a stun as a cherry on top to prevent it being instantly countered with a gap closer. So I can think of all sorts of things to do with it that I can't do with Shadowfury. Especially because I do RBGS for my high level PvP play, where terrain is far more of an issue than it is in arena.

[reepa]

lol who says its meant as a pvp utility? I am so sure blizzard designs spells all around pvp right? Please, be so kind as to tell me any spells that are only used in pvp to any effect that cannot be used in other situations? If you think blizzard is designing stuff for only pvp you are crazy! Pvp isn't even a main focus for blizzard, why the hell would you think they would make something thats only used in pvp?

[Phoenexis]

lol who says its meant as a pvp utility? I am so sure blizzard designs spells all around pvp right? Please, be so kind as to tell me any spells that are only used in pvp to any effect that cannot be used in other situations? If you think blizzard is designing stuff for only pvp you are crazy! Pvp isn't even a main focus for blizzard, why the hell would you think they would make something thats only used in pvp?

Just to answer your question: Unstable Affliction says hi. If something is needed in PvP for a spec to work, then Blizzard might add it. Yes some abilities can be used in PvE, but Cataclysm was specifically designed for PvP at first.

Also, am I the only one that would rather have it on a 1.5 sec cast time and be interruptable? Now THAT would be an awesome spell.

[reepa]

Just to answer your question: Unstable Affliction says hi. If something is needed in PvP for a spec to work, then Blizzard might add it. Yes some abilities can be used in PvE, but Cataclysm was specifically designed for PvP at first.

Also, am I the only one that would rather have it on a 1.5 sec cast time and be interruptable? Now THAT would be an awesome spell.

LOL wait did you just say unstable affliction was mostly used for pvp? Hmmm affliction locks in all raids say hi right back lmao its their main spell! Where do people like you even come from? lol wtf, unstable affliction wow.

[Phoenexis]

I meant the silence effect, heh...

---------- Post added 2012-10-20 at 05:57 PM ----------

You know, the one that activates and damages the dispeller?

[Tya]

Good thing every class has plenty of CDs shorter than 1 minute to completely counter it...

Warr: Leap/Charge
Rogue: Cloak/Sprint/Vanish/snarecleansethingee
DK: AMS/DeathsAdvance
Ret/Holy: Freedom/Sprint/Cleanse
Hunter: Disengage
Mage: Blink
Priest: Fade/Spectral Guise
Druid: Travelform/Displacerbeast/
Shaman: Ghostwolf/Capacitor totem (luls)
Monk: Roll/Flying kick thingee


... that's just off the top of my head and just the sub 60 second ones, a billion more if we go to the 2+min crew. Worst case, you can always just take the free 3 seconds of DPS time on the lock and instant trinket the stun if you want.

It's an exceptionally poorly designed ability atm. They already nerfed the good part of the spell (what was the right thing to do, it was crazy OP), and like I was afraid of, we're left with the mediocre 'CC' portion that doesn't do much and costs a fortune (time/CD/resources).

Please please PLEASE just give us something normal/functional/useful and not this PoS.

Forcing people to use half the cooldowns you listed makes it worth it alone.

[Phoenexis]

Forcing people to use half the cooldowns you listed makes it worth it alone.

Worth one whole ember and a 1 minute cooldown?