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  1. #1

    Cartel Coin / Credits market

    I think the least intrusive method of adding a way for f2p to earn coins from playing would be to add GW2 gem / gold market in addition to what bioware has currently proposed.

    In it, you can buy gems (cartel coins) for gold from other players.

    Some subscribers will not want 1000 minipets or 100 mounts. So their 200 cartel coin allowance will seem pointless to them once they have bought the few things they want. This would allow them to make quick credits selling their allowance on the market.

    Prices adjust automatically to demand, there's even a stock ticker in game showing the highs and lows of the gem / gold market in gw2.

    This could be implemented into swtor as a section of the cash shop UI.

    This would allow f2p players the ability to access content through playing. Why do that? Watch this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWMBeLrZoyw

    It would also add an additional benefit to being a subscriber. Don't like dailies? Fine, sell your CCs. Can't buy a perk with CC? Fine, sell your CCs for credits to unlock it.

    Another additional benefit would be lower queue times for WZs, FPs, and OPs because more people would be able to partake. Subscribers, would of course, be places in the front of the line.

    Almost every f2p model includes the ability to gain access to cash content through playing. This would be one way swtor could do it that would promote active play, and thus a more lively world, without touching the structure of their game much.
    Last edited by Bardarian; 2012-10-19 at 06:54 PM.
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  2. #2
    Bloodsail Admiral Jamos77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    I think the least intrusive method of adding a way for f2p to earn coins from playing would be to add GW2 gem / gold market.

    In it, you can buy gems (cartel coins) for gold from other players.

    Some subscribers will not want 1000 minipets or 100 mounts. So their 200 cartel coin allowance will seem pointless to them once they have bought the few things they want. This would allow them to make quick credits selling their allowance on the market.

    Prices adjust automatically to demand, there's even a stock ticker in game showing the highs and lows of the gem / gold market in gw2.

    This could be implemented into swtor as a section of the cash shop UI.

    This would allow f2p players the ability to access content through playing. Why? Watch this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWMBeLrZoyw

    It would also add an additional benefit to being a subscriber. Don't like dailies? Fine, sell your CCs. Can't buy a perk with CC? Fine, sell your CCs for credits to unlock it.

    Another additional benefit would be lower queue times for WZs, FPs, and OPs because more people would be able to partake. Subscribers, would of course, be places in the front of the line.

    Almost every f2p model includes the ability to gain access to cash content through playing. This would be one way swtor could do it that would promote active play, and thus a more lively world, without touching the structure of their game much.
    Makes too much sense so /ignore

    With the F2P about to launch any week now I can't see them changing anything. They seem to be sure their system fits their goals so I guess we'll have to see if the F2P gos so badly that they start 'taking requests'. I personally just want TOR to pick a strategy that works, I have all the money in the world to pay for whatever they put in that system/shop so my main concern is that the F2P goes well, the servers stay up so that I can continue to play with my guildies and friends.

    Once BW release more info on the F2P I'll be able to confront that system with the one you're proposing. For now, to me, both look viable.
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    There is plenty to criticize with the game and BioWares handling of it without resorting to exaggeration, so let's not do it : /

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamos77 View Post
    Once BW release more info on the F2P I'll be able to confront that system with the one you're proposing. For now, to me, both look viable.
    This would be more in addition to what bioware has already proposed.

    I think it is too late for them to change what they have already done.

    This would be more a band aid that would bring it in line with other F2P games.

    Adjusted opening line to reflect that.
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  4. #4
    The Lightbringer Mister K's Avatar
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    I take it you posted this on SWTOR forum too right? Very interesting and hopefully they will do something along the lines of this.
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamos77 View Post
    I personally just want TOR to pick a strategy that works, I have all the money in the world to pay for whatever they put in that system/shop so my main concern is that the F2P goes well, the servers stay up so that I can continue to play with my guildies and friends.
    The servers are going to stay up anyway, so I doubt that will be an issue. You get a lot of DOOM AND GLOOM posts here, but look at it from a business point of view. More than 500k subs is profit. That's $7,500,000 a month, and NO company is going to shut down if they're pulling in nearly 10 million a month. EA's greed is legendary, right? Well, they want that money. We last heard SWTOR was around 700k subs. Most of the people that were going to leave have already left. F2P, despite what anyone says on these forums, will bring in some more people, too. A million? No, of course not, but I'll bet subscriber numbers stay over that 500k mark, especially if they can keep to that 6-weeks content release plan.

    Just don't worry about the game being shut down. The people saying it's going to get shut down just don't like it, and that's cool, but no company is going to give up that kind of revenue.
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  6. #6
    The Lightbringer Mister K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nakaya_Kilrogg View Post
    The servers are going to stay up anyway, so I doubt that will be an issue. You get a lot of DOOM AND GLOOM posts here, but look at it from a business point of view. More than 500k subs is profit. That's $7,500,000 a month, and NO company is going to shut down if they're pulling in nearly 10 million a month. EA's greed is legendary, right? Well, they want that money. We last heard SWTOR was around 700k subs. Most of the people that were going to leave have already left. F2P, despite what anyone says on these forums, will bring in some more people, too. A million? No, of course not, but I'll bet subscriber numbers stay over that 500k mark, especially if they can keep to that 6-weeks content release plan.

    Just don't worry about the game being shut down. The people saying it's going to get shut down just don't like it, and that's cool, but no company is going to give up that kind of revenue.
    I surely hope this is true. I picked up the game recently and enjoying it, maybe playing it a bit too much so I might get juiced out again but, its deffo a good game. Sure it missed many features and the launcher could of been 1000x better but ... I think its still worth subscription fee to me.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Nakaya_Kilrogg View Post
    Just don't worry about the game being shut down. The people saying it's going to get shut down just don't like it, and that's cool, but no company is going to give up that kind of revenue.
    It won't be shut down, but it is possible that it will get warhammered.
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  8. #8
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nakaya_Kilrogg View Post
    The servers are going to stay up anyway, so I doubt that will be an issue. You get a lot of DOOM AND GLOOM posts here, but look at it from a business point of view. More than 500k subs is profit. That's $7,500,000 a month, and NO company is going to shut down if they're pulling in nearly 10 million a month.
    Until something else comes along that can utilize those servers and employee resources that makes more than that. Let me remind everyone that EA recently acquired a pretty significant mobile/tablet F2P games developer. You know how annoying the monetizing is in those games? Yeah me too...this is the future of all their 'real' games.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Until something else comes along that can utilize those servers and employee resources that makes more than that. Let me remind everyone that EA recently acquired a pretty significant mobile/tablet F2P games developer. You know how annoying the monetizing is in those games? Yeah me too...this is the future of all their 'real' games.
    What if it's the future of all games?

    People got tired of paying a monthly fee, but the companies damned sure didn't get tired of making that money. Before you say there are "good" companies out there who won't nickle-and-dime you on a freemium model, I know there are. It's a fading light. Tough economy, ruthless business practices. These things make gaming companies look at something like LoL and say "Fuck, how can I do something like that, but with more money!"

    LoL has a much easier time of giving away more of their game for free, because the players make up the content. The maps are there, people come and fight on them, the "story" is told. The same is true for mega-F2P-titan GW2. Their RvR pvp practically runs itself. Their version of warzones are of the utmost simplistic design, compared to even WoW. That shit is done, and the people provide the "content" in the form of PvP. As there is no real end-game for GW2, guess how they afford to do F2P "right"? For a game like SWTOR, the content all has to be developed, it has to be good, and it has to be tested and retested a thousand times. I'd bet my left foot end-game content for SWTOR costs a metric fuckton more than designing an LoL map or a GW2 warzone or Eternal Battleground.

    TLDR? If you want "good" F2P, where most of the best parts of the game are free, you need a lesser quality game. Higher quality games cost money. Always have, always will. I doubt you'll ever get both, and this is the future of gaming.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Nakaya_Kilrogg View Post
    The servers are going to stay up anyway, so I doubt that will be an issue. You get a lot of DOOM AND GLOOM posts here, but look at it from a business point of view. More than 500k subs is profit. That's $7,500,000 a month, and NO company is going to shut down if they're pulling in nearly 10 million a month.
    You forgot a few things, salaries, server upkeep and bandwidth, office costs, GL's cut, marketing, taxes, the fact is that they don't have that much profit on that low sub number, hence why they have said 500k to be profitable. Being EA profitable just isn't enough though, it has to be more than just profitable otherwise they will go to maintenance mode or shut down as their resources can be better utilized elsewhere.

    I find it interesting with the people around here that keep defending EA/BW's poor decisions these days, like this free to play model that goes against your basic desired psychological effects that you would strive for with a free to play model, going against something that has been done and tested for years now. This whole, pay the $15, if you don't like it GTO and so on is at the end of the day only hurting your selfs you know, you want old players to return, you want free to play players to be as unrestricted as possible while still encouraged to pay something every now and then, alienating anyone that has a complaint or that isn't paying a subscription currently is only going to keep that ever diminishing pool of players to shrink.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    You forgot a few things, salaries, server upkeep and bandwidth, office costs, GL's cut, marketing, taxes, the fact is that they don't have that much profit on that low sub number, hence why they have said 500k to be profitable. Being EA profitable just isn't enough though, it has to be more than just profitable otherwise they will go to maintenance mode or shut down as their resources can be better utilized elsewhere.
    And you forget all the times we're told on these forums "a $15 sub isn't justifiable because it doesn't cost that much to keep servers up and make content". You can't just assume that EA will shut down anything, especially in the immediate, near, or even quasi-distant future. Even Warhammer Online (also EA) is still up, and hell.. they made an arena-style mini-game out of that shit. Now, years of poor performance? Then you have a SWG-style death, where haters can rejoice. I don't see that coming for quite awhile, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    I find it interesting with the people around here that keep defending EA/BW's poor decisions these days, like this free to play model that goes against your basic desired psychological effects that you would strive for with a free to play model, going against something that has been done and tested for years now. This whole, pay the $15, if you don't like it GTO and so on is at the end of the day only hurting your selfs you know, you want old players to return, you want free to play players to be as unrestricted as possible while still encouraged to pay something every now and then, alienating anyone that has a complaint or that isn't paying a subscription currently is only going to keep that ever diminishing pool of players to shrink.
    To some of us, who actually like the game, this F2P thing is an opportunity. For one, it will bring more people to the game. I don't care how much you dispute that or don't want it to happen, it's going to happen. For two, we subscribers will get coins in which we can do lots of extra shit with, since we're not using them for basic features.

    I suppose if I wanted the game for free, I'd be in the same boat as you and probably raging against the system, but I'm not. I'm cool with it.
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Nakaya_Kilrogg View Post
    To some of us, who actually like the game, this F2P thing is an opportunity. For one, it will bring more people to the game. I don't care how much you dispute that or don't want it to happen, it's going to happen.
    With this overly restrictive model I'd say you and EA are in for a unpleasant surprise, this is what we're trying to say, an overly restrictive model like this won't help the game as much as you would think, at least that's my take on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nakaya_Kilrogg View Post
    For two, we subscribers will get coins in which we can do lots of extra shit with, since we're not using them for basic features.
    The funny thing is that you don't know that for sure, they could screw you over something fierce on the relative value on those coins.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nakaya_Kilrogg View Post
    I suppose if I wanted the game for free, I'd be in the same boat as you and probably raging against the system, but I'm not. I'm cool with it.
    I own the game so there is no need to get it for free, or perhaps you mean get to play it for free in which case you would be semi right. I'd want to play every now and then, something that would benefit queue times and what not, hell I'd probably throw small amounts of cash to make my life easy as well as long as I'm not forced to do so, with this model there would be no point at all for me to play.
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  13. #13
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nakaya_Kilrogg View Post
    To some of us, who actually like the game, this F2P thing is an opportunity.
    Liking the game and severely disliking the company and its practices are as separate an issue as possible
    Quote Originally Posted by Nakaya_Kilrogg View Post
    For one, it will bring more people to the game. I don't care how much you dispute that or don't want it to happen, it's going to happen.
    Speculation
    Quote Originally Posted by Nakaya_Kilrogg View Post
    For two, we subscribers will get coins in which we can do lots of extra shit with, since we're not using them for basic features.
    Extreme speculation, probably hyperbole.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nakaya_Kilrogg View Post
    I suppose if I wanted the game for free, I'd be in the same boat as you and probably raging against the system, but I'm not. I'm cool with it.
    Actually, if you wanted the game to be at the highest F2P standard as possible to compete with the rest of the mark you would be pretty angry. But since most people here praising the EA gods seem to think nothing at all is amiss, then you are pretty blinded to how terrible this is and how great it could be.

    Not a single person that I've read is angry at the game because they hate it. Some people think it isn't worth what has been paid for already and they are entirely valid. This game was released at least a year if not two too early. The rest of us are angry at EA because we LOVE the game. Sorry that I have ethics and a sense of honor when it comes to my time and money spent. I consider my business valuable and expect a high quality return. Considering that the world is in a terrible economic state, I'm not going to write off anyone with a legitimate complaint regarding what they are getting for their money. People are being taken advantage of everywhere.

  14. #14
    OK SO HERE IT IS the Cartel Market is up on PTS

    http://www.swtor.com/info/news/news-article/20121023-0

    gonna go check it out i suggest other do so as well

  15. #15
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Already posted some in the other thread, but did anyone notice that it doesn't say Section X is free to subscribers? Looks like you are being charged Cartel Coins for it as well. So much for giving away updates to subscribers. Just to get a new daily area you have to pay. Welcome to the future!

  16. #16
    1 "epic" authorization is 1200.

    Aren't we estimating that at 1 dollar per 100 cc?

    So like... 12 dollars to wear a single epic?
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    1 "epic" authorization is 1200.

    Aren't we estimating that at 1 dollar per 100 cc?

    So like... 12 dollars to wear a single epic?
    Seems more like a one time unlock for "most" gear. Meaning you purchase it once and you can equip the gear whenever. That's how I read it at least.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    The funny thing is that you don't know that for sure, they could screw you over something fierce on the relative value on those coins.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Liking the game and severely disliking the company and its practices are as separate an issue as possible

    Speculation

    Extreme speculation, probably hyperbole.
    It's up, and I see a lot I can use my coins on. Your hyperbole-detector was false indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Actually, if you wanted the game to be at the highest F2P standard as possible to compete with the rest of the mark you would be pretty angry. But since most people here praising the EA gods seem to think nothing at all is amiss, then you are pretty blinded to how terrible this is and how great it could be.
    That's the rub. I know it could be "better" (better in terms of people wanting to play without paying any money). I'm not a rich fellow, so saving $15 a month could be nice. But, it won't be "better" is 90% of the current, active subs switch to F2P and pay nothing, thus halting quality production of content. [We have a difference of opinion on quality of content. I'm cool with what they're putting out, you're not, that's fine. It's not the point of this.]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Not a single person that I've read is angry at the game because they hate it. Some people think it isn't worth what has been paid for already and they are entirely valid. This game was released at least a year if not two too early. The rest of us are angry at EA because we LOVE the game. Sorry that I have ethics and a sense of honor when it comes to my time and money spent. I consider my business valuable and expect a high quality return. Considering that the world is in a terrible economic state, I'm not going to write off anyone with a legitimate complaint regarding what they are getting for their money. People are being taken advantage of everywhere.
    I get that, I really do. But, it seems like you put an awful lot of effort into disputing people who are fine with the system, and even like/plan to take full advantage of it. Like it's a personal crusade, since.. EA didn't do it how you wanted, so no one should like it and we should all rage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    most people here praising the EA gods
    As opposed to the dozens of hate pages on the other threads, of which you yourself have a considerable number of posts? I see a lot more negative than positive.
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusherO0 View Post
    Seems more like a one time unlock for "most" gear. Meaning you purchase it once and you can equip the gear whenever. That's how I read it at least.
    Anyone able to confirm?

    Because if you can get access to all your old epics for 12 dollars, and then pay 2.50 a week for pvp you could be a pvper for 10 dollars rather than 15.

    I guess that's a "plus".
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Already posted some in the other thread, but did anyone notice that it doesn't say Section X is free to subscribers? Looks like you are being charged Cartel Coins for it as well. So much for giving away updates to subscribers. Just to get a new daily area you have to pay. Welcome to the future!
    Also, on the PTR, subs don't have to unlock Section X. Pretty sure it's for F2P.
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