Demo PvP Abilities?

[Deleted]

Hey guys

I have never played demo before but would like to give it a go along side destro as a bit of a change.

My question is, is there a guide or some tips anyone can give me on playing it in PvP? I have no idea what abilities to be using or which daemons etc.

Im totally clueless about it so reall need help form the ground up!

Thanks for any tips!

[Deleted]

In my experience Demo can work quite well in PvP, but can be quite hard to really make fully use of the spec. I would say that there are three main demons you should consider, and that there is no real "the" choice between them because it depends a lot on your own playstyle and the situation at hand of what you face. Basically you are choosing between an interrupt/silence which is really good against other casters but horrible against physical damage dealers. A stun which is good against everything but can easily collide with the diminishing return of other classes stuns, and an extra controlled CC from the shivarra.

In my experience I find that the Wrathguard is the best because stuns are good against everyone, whilst you feel incredibly gimped the moment you face a warrior with an observer out.

I think it's important to have glyphed demon hunting for the tank stance, as it's great for kiting warriors and the like with instant cast spells and taking quite a bit less damage, then easily switching out of it if you get the chance to hard cast spells to build up fury for Metamorphosis burst.

Your main focus should be to build fury when possible and then use that fury to burst down whatever crucial target you might face, be it a healer, a flag carrier or whatever.

I'm afraid I don't have much more to add, as I haven't played the spec too much in PvP yet, I'm sure others will have more to add however.

Edit: Oh and when it comes to talents, my suggestion would be:
Dark regeneration as an extra survival cd, I always use it before mortal coil and health stone as those heal more with it.

Mortal Coil, some would say shadowfury here but I feel that shadowfury collides with too many stun diminishing returns, including your Wrathguard's. Both CC the target for 3 seconds, but Mortal Coil also heals you for 15 % and doesn't collide with any other CC (unless a priest just used their disarm thingy).

Dark Bargain: I suppose sacrificial pact works as well, but I really enjoy having this precious CD for when I get extra focused, using it with dark regeneration and unending resolve and you're invincible.

Blood fear, easy choice, a CC that cannot be interrupted and has saved me loads of times.

Grimoire of Supremecy, sacrifice is terrible for demonology and I don't feel comfortable with service, might be good though I don't know.

Archimonde's Vengeance, I feel that none of these are all that good but a passive 5 % damage return is better than the other two options.

[Deleted]

In my experience Demo can work quite well in PvP, but can be quite hard to really make fully use of the spec. I would say that there are three main demons you should consider, and that there is no real "the" choice between them because it depends a lot on your own playstyle and the situation at hand of what you face. Basically you are choosing between an interrupt/silence which is really good against other casters but horrible against physical damage dealers. A stun which is good against everything but can easily collide with the diminishing return of other classes stuns, and an extra controlled CC from the shivarra.

In my experience I find that the Wrathguard is the best because stuns are good against everyone, whilst you feel incredibly gimped the moment you face a warrior with an observer out.

I think it's important to have glyphed demon hunting for the tank stance, as it's great for kiting warriors and the like with instant cast spells and taking quite a bit less damage, then easily switching out of it if you get the chance to hard cast spells to build up fury for Metamorphosis burst.

Your main focus should be to build fury when possible and then use that fury to burst down whatever crucial target you might face, be it a healer, a flag carrier or whatever.

I'm afraid I don't have much more to add, as I haven't played the spec too much in PvP yet, I'm sure others will have more to add however.

Edit: Oh and when it comes to talents, my suggestion would be:
Dark regeneration as an extra survival cd, I always use it before mortal coil and health stone as those heal more with it.

Mortal Coil, some would say shadowfury here but I feel that shadowfury collides with too many stun diminishing returns, including your Wrathguard's. Both CC the target for 3 seconds, but Mortal Coil also heals you for 15 % and doesn't collide with any other CC (unless a priest just used their disarm thingy).

Dark Bargain: I suppose sacrificial pact works as well, but I really enjoy having this precious CD for when I get extra focused, using it with dark regeneration and unending resolve and you're invincible.

Blood fear, easy choice, a CC that cannot be interrupted and has saved me loads of times.

Grimoire of Supremecy, sacrifice is terrible for demonology and I don't feel comfortable with service, might be good though I don't know.

Archimonde's Vengeance, I feel that none of these are all that good but a passive 5 % damage return is better than the other two options.

so for talents i have...

Dark Regen, Mortal Coil, Sacrificial pact, Blood fear, then ive gone for SoServ...i assume 2 minions is better than 1? which means no wrathguard. Final perk i went with mannoroth as the extra aoe can be helpful with helfire generating fury...

Make sense? as for glyphs i have imp swarm, demon hunting and health stone...

No idea on spells and rotations though, im not sure what to have on my cast bars and what to be using!

[Deleted]

so for talents i have...

Dark Regen, Mortal Coil, Sacrificial pact, Blood fear, then ive gone for SoServ...i assume 2 minions is better than 1? which means no wrathguard. Final perk i went with mannoroth as the extra aoe can be helpful with helfire generating fury...

Make sense? as for glyphs i have imp swarm, demon hunting and health stone...

No idea on spells and rotations though, im not sure what to have on my cast bars and what to be using!

When it comes to what grimoire to use, two demons isn't necessarily better than one. The improved demon will have an overall larger damage upkeep, whereas service will allow you to use two demons for a short time, might be really good if you successfully seduce one target and interrupt the other, but I wouldn't feel comfortable in the slightest playing like that.

As for what spells to use, corruption on all enemies, enter meta to cast doom if possible on targets you think will live for a while, cure of elements or weakness is always good, also whilst in demon form consider casting one of them to cast it as an aura on yourself. The weakness is great since it increses the time it takes for enemies to cast spells, and reduces their physical damage dealt. Elements is great since enemies takes more spell damage. Shadowbolt is your filler spell to build fury, use hand of gul'dan when possible to slow enemies and get soul fire stacks, consume soul fire stacks out of metamorph. Enter tank stance whenever you need to tank a melee who is chasing you down.

[Deleted]

When it comes to what grimoire to use, two demons isn't necessarily better than one. The improved demon will have an overall larger damage upkeep, whereas service will allow you to use two demons for a short time, might be really good if you successfully seduce one target and interrupt the other, but I wouldn't feel comfortable in the slightest playing like that.

As for what spells to use, corruption on all enemies, enter meta to cast doom if possible on targets you think will live for a while, cure of elements or weakness is always good, also whilst in demon form consider casting one of them to cast it as an aura on yourself. The weakness is great since it increses the time it takes for enemies to cast spells, and reduces their physical damage dealt. Elements is great since enemies takes more spell damage. Shadowbolt is your filler spell to build fury, use hand of gul'dan when possible to slow enemies and get soul fire stacks, consume soul fire stacks out of metamorph. Enter tank stance whenever you need to tank a melee who is chasing you down.

so DA is only used when getting trained by melee?

other than that its normal stance and then meta for doing the real dmg?

Still a bit confused when to be popping into meta and how long / what to be doing in normal. i heard not to use SB due to cast time, mana and chances to be shut down as its one of the few castables. I know better demon is probably good for general BG but for arena you would want the burst of 2 i guess... ill try both styles out

[Deleted]

so DA is only used when getting trained by melee?

other than that its normal stance and then meta for doing the real dmg?

Still a bit confused when to be popping into meta and how long / what to be doing in normal. i heard not to use SB due to cast time, mana and chances to be shut down as its one of the few castables. I know better demon is probably good for general BG but for arena you would want the burst of 2 i guess... ill try both styles out

Thing with the tank stance is that it's great for kiting while dealing some damage, but it's terrible in terms of actually dealing any real damage. You have to cast shadow bolt to build fury to deal any real form of damage in meta form, but of course only do it when it's safe to do it. If it's that you're afraid to get interrupted, all casters have that problem and you will have to try and fake cast to make them waste their interrupt, or use unending resolve since it makes you immune to interrupts and silences.

As for when to burn your fury in meta, that's completely depending on the situation. The great thing about it is that you can enter and leave meta as you will, and only spend the amount of fury you want, no more, no less. It's like a controlled cooldown, you build it up and consume it either all together or spread out in smaller portions. Save it for those times when you really need to burst down someone, be it a healer, that annoying DPS that won't leave you alone, or a flag carrier.

As a side note, don't ever pop into tank stance if you already have built up fury, leaving tank stance will reduce all fury above 200, to 200 flat. If you have a melee chasing you down and you have the fury for it, enter meta instead to possibly burst them down or just use it to take less damage as it also gives you a lot of armor.

Service can probably be really good in arena, but you also really need to know what you're doing with it and make the most of it, since it's only a 20 second window. You lose that window the risk is even higher that you lose the game, hence why I don't like it. =/

Edit:
Oh, and it's also great that you use glyph of imp swarm, as it's a great addition to building up fury quickly. Use it whenever you can. As for glyph of healthstone I don't really like it, because the hot effect of it can't critically hit whilst the instant effect of it can, hence possibly neutralizing a whole glyph slot, but I suppose that depends a lot on the situation, your setup, and how you play.

[Deleted]

Unless you know you can get a shadow bolt off without being interrupted, stick to fel flame.

[Nikijih]

So far most of Chaozy's advice has been... misleading is the most polite way to put this. Sorry man, but really its just mostly wrong...

1) 2 pets is better then the wrathguard. Not only is it better in terms of raw DPS, but its bursty nature makes it a natural choice in PvP where its all about burst and CC, especially on a Demo spec.

2) Always use felguard as demo. Other pets are not even in the running, they cannot compete: less single target damage, less AoE, less burst, less utility (stun > silence). The offensive dispel is decent on the felpuppy, but it doesnt make up for the lack of double-spin bursts.

3) Demon hunting is not all that great. Its only real use is if you get focused off the bats in arenas. Personally I dont even use it at all, since Demo is basically the only warlock spec to have amazing kiting abilities (Portal, Gateway, 10 sec CD Leap, tier 2 talent, Carrion Swarm, two CC breaks (trinket + talent) and I have a sprint as racial from being Worgen).

4) Sacrificial Pact can be cast while CCed (its dependent on your pet's status, not yours), Dark Bargain cannot. This alone gives it the edge in my books, and by far. As Demo, if your pet dies, you get free instant summon, so the pet dmg from it is a non-factor. Also keep in mind that DB doesnt stop damage, it delays it (50%), which means when it runs out you will be taking more burst then you ever would normally, making it actually rather dangerous against smart opponents that know how to abuse it.

5) Blood Fear is a skill I personally HATE for PvP. If you are being focused, then taking away 10% of your own HP to have a single guy feared for 1-3 seconds (trinkets + dispels + Immunities + Damage-Breaks means it rarely lasts for more then that) is a terrible idea. The fear CD itself is also extremely prohibitive, meaning you can no longuer rotate fears, which is the only real use that washed out CC still has to begin with. And then there is the fact that you are sacrificing a 2nd CC break for it, which is quite a big deal. The opportunity cost alone would make this spell a bad idea, then you add the rest and you have a train wreck waiting to happen.

6) Use Elements aura, cast Weakness curse on players. You dont need elements if you are not within range. You still need Weakness's casting debuff when you are not within range. You can have 2 curses up on the same player using the Aura + Curse combo, you dont have to choose.

7) Do *NOT* spend your fury on and off. This is a the textbook definition of "bad fury management". Fury = your burst. You save it, and use it in conjecture with CDs during CC setups.

8) AV is irrelevant. The damage it deals is litterally un-noticeable, and it is counter-productive to a spec that tries to kite more then tank. Mannoroth is what you want here, as it ensures your Hands of Guldan hit more players while essentially giving you immunity against stealthers (you can pop em out of stealth way before they are in range of you with hellfire, and you can move while doing it).

[Deleted]

So far most of Chaozy's advice has been... misleading is the most polite way to put this. Sorry man, but really its just mostly wrong...

1) 2 pets is better then the wrathguard. Not only is it better in terms of raw DPS, but its bursty nature makes it a natural choice in PvP where its all about burst and CC, especially on a Demo spec.

2) Always use felguard as demo. Other pets are not even in the running, they cannot compete: less single target damage, less AoE, less burst, less utility (stun > silence). The offensive dispel is decent on the felpuppy, but it doesnt make up for the lack of double-spin bursts.

3) Demon hunting is not all that great. Its only real use is if you get focused off the bats in arenas. Personally I dont even use it at all, since Demo is basically the only warlock spec to have amazing kiting abilities (Portal, Gateway, 10 sec CD Leap, tier 2 talent, Carrion Swarm, two CC breaks (trinket + talent) and I have a sprint as racial from being Worgen).

4) Sacrificial Pact can be cast while CCed (its dependent on your pet's status, not yours), Dark Bargain cannot. This alone gives it the edge in my books, and by far. As Demo, if your pet dies, you get free instant summon, so the pet dmg from it is a non-factor. Also keep in mind that DB doesnt stop damage, it delays it (50%), which means when it runs out you will be taking more burst then you ever would normally, making it actually rather dangerous against smart opponents that know how to abuse it.

5) Blood Fear is a skill I personally HATE for PvP. If you are being focused, then taking away 10% of your own HP to have a single guy feared for 1-3 seconds (trinkets + dispels + damage means it rarely lasts for more then that) is a terrible idea. The fear CD itself is also extremely prohibitive, meaning you can no longuer rotate fears, which is the only real use that washed out CC still has to begin with. And then there is the fact that you are sacrificing a 2nd CC break for it, which is quite a big deal. The opportunity cost alone would make this spell a bad idea, then you add the rest and you have a train wreck waiting to happen.

6) Use Elements aura, cast Weakness curse on players. You dont need elements if you are not within range. You still need Weakness's casting debuff when you are not within range. You can have 2 curses up on the same player using the Aura + Curse combo, you dont have to choose.

7) Do *NOT* spend your fury on and off. This is a the textbook definition of "bad fury management". Fury = your burst. You save it, and use it in conjecture with CDs during CC setups.

8) AV is irrelevant. The damage it deals is litterally un-noticeable, and it is counter-productive to a spec that tries to kite more then tank. Mannoroth is what you want here, as it ensures your Hands of Guldan hit more players while essentially giving you immunity against stealthers (you can pop em out of stealth way before they are in range of you with hellfire, and you can move while doing it).

All pets have about the same single target damage though, even if felguards is ever so slightly above felhound and succubus I really wouldn't pick him for that reason as seduction and the interrupt can play a much bigger role. With that said I also prefer the stun since it works against all targets. Agreed that service might be more suitable for PvP, what I said about grimoire was as I stated my opinion about it and I don't feel comfortable with service in the slightest.

Sacrificial pact only absorbs so much damage and only lasts 10 seconds with a 1 min cooldown, I much prefer dark bargain for when I'm really focused, but that's a matter of taste and playstyle.

Unbound will also costs health, 20 % of your total hp so you really need to make sure that you would have lost more if you didn't use it. Without blood fear you also put yourself at risk of being interrupted while casting it, and it's much harder to pull it off if the enemy is attempting to get out of sight.

Agreed on the auras.

All I said was that you could spend the fury on and off, if so needed. You don't always need to spend all fury at once, hence don't waste it on targets who doesn't need to be bursted down just because you're in meta.

---------- Post added 2012-10-21 at 02:51 AM ----------

So far most of Chaozy's advice has been... misleading is the most polite way to put this. Sorry man, but really its just mostly wrong...

1) 2 pets is better then the wrathguard. Not only is it better in terms of raw DPS, but its bursty nature makes it a natural choice in PvP where its all about burst and CC, especially on a Demo spec.

2) Always use felguard as demo. Other pets are not even in the running, they cannot compete: less single target damage, less AoE, less burst, less utility (stun > silence). The offensive dispel is decent on the felpuppy, but it doesnt make up for the lack of double-spin bursts.

3) Demon hunting is not all that great. Its only real use is if you get focused off the bats in arenas. Personally I dont even use it at all, since Demo is basically the only warlock spec to have amazing kiting abilities (Portal, Gateway, 10 sec CD Leap, tier 2 talent, Carrion Swarm, two CC breaks (trinket + talent) and I have a sprint as racial from being Worgen).

4) Sacrificial Pact can be cast while CCed (its dependent on your pet's status, not yours), Dark Bargain cannot. This alone gives it the edge in my books, and by far. As Demo, if your pet dies, you get free instant summon, so the pet dmg from it is a non-factor. Also keep in mind that DB doesnt stop damage, it delays it (50%), which means when it runs out you will be taking more burst then you ever would normally, making it actually rather dangerous against smart opponents that know how to abuse it.

5) Blood Fear is a skill I personally HATE for PvP. If you are being focused, then taking away 10% of your own HP to have a single guy feared for 1-3 seconds (trinkets + dispels + damage means it rarely lasts for more then that) is a terrible idea. The fear CD itself is also extremely prohibitive, meaning you can no longuer rotate fears, which is the only real use that washed out CC still has to begin with. And then there is the fact that you are sacrificing a 2nd CC break for it, which is quite a big deal. The opportunity cost alone would make this spell a bad idea, then you add the rest and you have a train wreck waiting to happen.

6) Use Elements aura, cast Weakness curse on players. You dont need elements if you are not within range. You still need Weakness's casting debuff when you are not within range. You can have 2 curses up on the same player using the Aura + Curse combo, you dont have to choose.

7) Do *NOT* spend your fury on and off. This is a the textbook definition of "bad fury management". Fury = your burst. You save it, and use it in conjecture with CDs during CC setups.

8) AV is irrelevant. The damage it deals is litterally un-noticeable, and it is counter-productive to a spec that tries to kite more then tank. Mannoroth is what you want here, as it ensures your Hands of Guldan hit more players while essentially giving you immunity against stealthers (you can pop em out of stealth way before they are in range of you with hellfire, and you can move while doing it).

All pets have about the same single target damage though, even if felguards is ever so slightly above felhound and succubus I really wouldn't pick him for that reason as seduction and the interrupt can play a much bigger role. With that said I also prefer the stun since it works against all targets. Agreed that service might be more suitable for PvP, what I said about grimoire was as I stated my opinion about it and I don't feel comfortable with service in the slightest.

Sacrificial pact only absorbs so much damage and only lasts 10 seconds with a 1 min cooldown, I much prefer dark bargain for when I'm really focused, but that's a matter of taste ant playstyle.

Unbound will also costs health, 20 % of your total hp so you really need to make sure that you would have lost more if you didn't use it. Without blood fear you also put yourself at risk of being interrupted while casting it, and it's much harder to pull it off if the enemy is attempting to get out of sight.

Agreed on the auras.

All I said was that you could spend the fury on and off, if so needed. You don't always need to spend all fury at once, hence don't waste it on targets who doesn't need to be bursted down just because you're in meta.

Also as side notes: If you're being focused you really don't want to stop and hard cast a fear, especially not if it will only last 1-3 seconds. When focused, that's when you do want blood fear as it's instant cast and you don't need to risk having your shadow school locked out.

[Nikijih]

All pets have about the same single target damage though, even if felguards is ever so slightly above felhound and succubus I really wouldn't pick him for that reason as seduction and the interrupt can play a much bigger role. With that said I also prefer the stun since it works against all targets. Agreed that service might be more suitable for PvP, what I said about grimoire was as I stated my opinion about it and I don't feel comfortable with service in the slightest.

Sacrificial pact only absorbs so much damage and only lasts 10 seconds with a 1 min cooldown, I much prefer dark bargain for when I'm really focused, but that's a matter of taste and playstyle.

Unbound will also costs health, 20 % of your total hp so you really need to make sure that you would have lost more if you didn't use it. Without blood fear you also put yourself at risk of being interrupted while casting it, and it's much harder to pull it off if the enemy is attempting to get out of sight.

Agreed on the auras.

All I said was that you could spend the fury on and off, if so needed. You don't always need to spend all fury at once, hence don't waste it on targets who doesn't need to be bursted down just because you're in meta.

Ill just go point by point cause i find it easyer to sum up and vulgarize my own. I have to say, overall: "fair enough".
1) Its true that fel's single target isnt that much higher then everyone else's, but the fact that it has (A) AoE and (B) Burst damage means to me that it wins out pressure-wise in terms of DPS.

2) I also didnt feel comfortable with service at first to be honest, but now that I have gotten used to it i literally could'nt play without it: its that great.

3) 1 min CD is very low, and it absorbs upwards of 200k damage. While its possible to bust through it, it gives you plenty of time.

4) Unbound definitly needs to be used with extreme care, but you can usually tell when you are about to get assploded. Being able to break a CC chain for a quick teleport can throw their entire game off and ruin a ton of CDs from the other team.

5) Regular fear definitly presents a risk, but so does using your own HP and putting a CD on the CC that has the most counter out of all CCs.

[Deleted]

So overall my talents and glyphs are fine? Its just a case of learning this playstyle...

So i use fel flame, imps and whatever else to build fury and then pop meta to try and take down enemies.

then i have DA for when im being trained / objective carrying?

Im still a bit confused with all the contrasting opinion and i dont know anything about the spec to make my own decisions on it yet!

[Nikijih]

The best advice I could give you is this: get familiar with the spec yourself. Just test different combinations of glyphs and talents until you find something that feels the most effective for your playstyle. I know it sounds terribly dull as an answer after my previous posts, but in the end its all about practice. By playing Demo over and over again you will get to understand Demo's mechanics better, and thats what you need for Demo PvP: a mastery of demonology's mechanics. Despite what other classes seem to think, demo is a finesse spec, and cannot really be "taught". Go outside org/SW and duel till you are sick of seeing a flag. Do BGs. PvE.

[Deleted]

I also wouldn't say GoSac is terrible if your playstyle is about bursting down opponents in a small CC window. Sacrificing right before a burst will make your damage shoot through the roof, in addition to giving you an extra silence if you sac your felhunter. You also get 20 seconds to instantly resummon your pet, so using it just for burst works well.