Some questions on 2H Frost Priority

[Nobleshield]

I want to clarify a few things as I revisit my DK.

#1: Do Rime procs take precedence over Killing Machine? Both Noxxic and Icy-Veins say yes, EJ says no (KM > Rime). If I hit an Obliterate and get both Rime and Killing Machine (happens fairly frequently), which do I use first?

#2: What's the recommended threshold, if any, on delaying a KM proc to use on OB instead of FS if OB is not available? When I'm not able to use Oblit I'll use Frost Strike on a KM proc unless OB is going to be available within the next second (or less).

#3: Pillar of Frost+Raise dead before the tank pulls and on cooldown, correct? Do we still use Army pre-pull (I have mine glyphed to not taunt)? If I know a Bloodlust is coming, should I save PoF+RD to use right after that if they're available?

[Deleted]

Second question: Dont mind killing machine.

[waywardbiade]

I want to clarify a few things as I revisit my DK.

#1: Do Rime procs take precedence over Killing Machine? Both Noxxic and Icy-Veins say yes, EJ says no (KM > Rime). If I hit an Obliterate and get both Rime and Killing Machine (happens fairly frequently), which do I use first?

#2: What's the recommended threshold, if any, on delaying a KM proc to use on OB instead of FS if OB is not available? When I'm not able to use Oblit I'll use Frost Strike on a KM proc unless OB is going to be available within the next second (or less).

#3: Pillar of Frost+Raise dead before the tank pulls and on cooldown, correct? Do we still use Army pre-pull (I have mine glyphed to not taunt)? If I know a Bloodlust is coming, should I save PoF+RD to use right after that if they're available?

1: Would depends on what's going on in the fight, if it's AoE it'd likely be a better idea to use Rime for the HB. If single target boss use Obl, however that will also depend on the CD if any on your Obl, you don't want to "force a lockout" to wait for a KM/Obl.

2: For the delay on the KM proc to use OB or Froststrike, I usually use a 1.5/2 second max wait time. Usually, while I do this, I have a rime proc that I'd use HB for, followed by the KM Obl. You'd have to toy around with what feels best for you. As stated above, the idea is to avoid a "forced lockout".

3: This would depend on the fight, there are few that I will pre pop Army, but usually I wait for the burn phase as this is when Hero/Bloodlust is usually in effect followed by personal CD's and trinkets, this results in a stronger dps surge burst during the phase.

These are my opinions and based on my play style / raid. Most of us have our own way of doing things, either way I hope it helped give you some idea.

[Schizoide]

1) You should ignore KM. People who say otherwise are wrong.
2) same as 1
3) You will waste some pillar duration if you do that, and you should have free gcds to do it a couple seconds into the fight. You should be using army pre-pull though. Raise dead lasts a minute and bloodlust only 45s, so if you know it's coming in the next 15s you can use it. There is no need to wait for bloodlust before using your ghoul as all pets dynamically scale with stats.

[Deleted]

Ordered by Priority

1. "Soul Reaper" when CurrentTarget.HealthPercent < 35
2. "Outbreak" when NeedsDiseases
3. "Howling Blast" when TargetDebuffDuration("Frost Fever") < 1),
4. "Plague Strike" when TargetDebuffDuration("Blood Plague") < 1),
5. "Obliterate" when HasAura("Killing Machine")),
6. "Frost Strike" when RunicPowerPercent > 90),
7. "Howling Blast" when HasAura("Rime")),
8. "Obliterate"
9. "Frost Strike"
10. "Horn of Winter"

[Rayaleith]

Ordered by Priority

1. "Soul Reaper" when CurrentTarget.HealthPercent < 35
2. "Outbreak" when NeedsDiseases
3. "Howling Blast" when TargetDebuffDuration("Frost Fever") < 1),
4. "Plague Strike" when TargetDebuffDuration("Blood Plague") < 1),
5. "Obliterate" when HasAura("Killing Machine")),
6. "Frost Strike" when StyxWoW.Me.RunicPowerPercent > 90),
7. "Howling Blast" when StyxWoW.Me.HasAura("Rime")),
8. "Obliterate"
9. "Frost Strike"
10. "Horn of Winter"

Really now. You come in here and you throw things like StyxWow etc which is obviously bot code? Are you for real? Man...

[Deleted]

Really now. You come in here and you throw things like StyxWow etc which is obviously bot code? Are you for real? Man...

Haha i forgot to remove the reference
Can't think of a better simcraft though.

[Schizoide]

Haha i forgot to remove the reference
Can't think of a better simcraft though.

Umm.... how about "simcraft"?

http://code.google.com/p/simulationc...t_2h_T14N.simc

[Prag]

Thanks for asking this, OP. I felt like a bad DK because some of my KM's are eaten by FS'. This thread helped me!

[eduh]

#1: it depends on your swing timming and which runes you have up, assuming you're not sitting on 2 death runes and you can cast both HB and Obli before your autoatttack hits again, its safe to say that you can cast use Rime before KM, otherwise it gets tricky to calculate but the difference should not be significant.

#2: Unless you have a really high mastery it should be ok to sacrifice 1 autoattack while sitting on a KM proc waiting for Obli, not more.

[Nobleshield]

Thanks for asking this, OP. I felt like a bad DK because some of my KM's are eaten by FS'. This thread helped me!

I'm glad it helped you.. I walked away even more confused than I did before asking it, since I got some people saying different things FWIW I've been trusting Noxxic and prioritizing Rime > OB, even on Single Target (and especially on 2+ targets) but I only just hit 90 last night so I'm not really geared yet. I manage to hold my own fairly well in heroics, usually #2 DPS when there's a geared person in the group (and a non-Monk tank, omg those guys do insane DPS), otherwise I hover around #1 depending on the fight, so it seems to be working.

[Seref]

I prioritize Rime over KM, since using KM might trigger another Rime which would then be wasted. Though sometimes I Oblit/FS too fast and miss a Rime, so sometimes I'm hesitant every time I Oblit/FS... >_<

[Pullo]

This also depends on the resources you currently have available. Ideally you want to use Rime before using Obl so that you don't waste a possible Rime proc chance when you Obl. If you have runes coming off CD and you need to deplete some runes so you won't be wasting runes the KM Obl will do much more than the possible additional howling blast for 2H.

[Hellishreaper]

Yes rime takes precedence over killing machine, because you could reproc rime if you use killing machine first.

[Nobleshield]

My only problem now (if it even is one) is that I sometimes have dead GCDs where I can't do anything, or maybe just can use Howling Blast. I'll end up using 4-5+ Frost Strikes in a row, and have no runic power for another one, and have to sit there or use a Howling Blast just to do *something* while I wait for runes to come up. I might be messing up my runes a little bit, I'm not sure.

[Schizoide]

No, that will happen. Frost has around 15% wait time. But you don't sit around for exactly 1.5s every 10s, that's not how it works. When the stars line up and you don't get a rime proc, and runic empowerment doesn't go off, and horn is on cooldown, you can have 3-4s lacking resources to hit any buttons. 2H frost reforges to haste, so wait time will drop with gear. DW frost wait time will drop much more slowly as it reforges to mastery.