Did I go overboard with mastery?

[Rayaleith]

Hey all,

Yesterday I finally got a weapon from Elegon (wanted any weapon since I was running with a 463 2H). Unfortunately was the 1H axe but anyway I switched to DW. As I do most of the times and since I got a heroics helm as well, I plugged my char to askmrrobot to arrange for me the hit and expertise.

Detecting my weapon change it -normally- suggested quite some changes since mastery is now better for me. That meant substituting all quick gems with fracture and haste/hit with master/hit. So, I run my profile to simcraft and I got these for scaling (strength is not included since it is the highest by far)

Crit Haste Mastery
0.90 1.31 1.13

So... That means that I overdid it THAT much with mastery that haste has surpassed by this significant margin my "main" secondary stat?

Oh, my armory

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...whomp/advanced

[Deleted]

Uhm I always go for strg/hit as blue gem. Don't think either haste or mastery is 0.5 of strg to make the gem be that much better. I have almost same ilevel and about 5900 mastery/3644 haste. I do belive the gap is lower, haste should be almost as mastery, depending on fights. AoE, mastery wins on single target haste. So it evens out in raids.

[Rayaleith]

Hmm.. I am a bit confused. I checked EJ again. As 2H they suggest 320 haste in many slots, while in DW gearing I see almost no 320 mastery gem. Instead they use str/mastery. I think my use to askmrrobot must be limited to arrange for me the hit expertise caps only.... I will try to sim with str/hit, str/mastery gems. Still I think I should not gem to haste at all as DW. Or not?

[Deleted]

No don't gem haste. I go for mastery gear and a lot of them have expertise as alt stat. That expertise can be reforged into haste so it's a win-win situation. For blue gem I do strg/hit so I don't have to use hit items or reforge for hit.

[Rayaleith]

I just did another sim. I substituted the gems in the text file from hit/mastery and 320mastery to hit/strength and str/mastery. I saw about 1K dps increase. Not much if we think that AOE damage would be lower now. I hope I did the substitutions right in the text file.

[Deleted]

1. You should only use mastery/str, hit/str and pure str gems as generally 2hit/exp > 1str > 2 mastery. You should only sacrifice str in order to reach your hit/exp caps if you are not able to do this by reforging only, as you cannot reforge for str, but you can easily for hit/exp. But you already corrected that.

2. The reason for your inflated haste stat weight are your talents. If you don't spec into plague leech, mastery will probably never surpass haste during t14 content. You should not miss out on this talent for raiding. With plague leech, mastery and haste will have almost similar statweights, but it's generally more convinient to go for mastery, as you will do more aoe dmg and you will loose less dmg when you have to stop attacking/move away from the boss for a short period of time .

[Uselessrouge]

i dont know if you care but you forgot bracer enchant

[Deleted]

True Forecore but a bit of more haste will make you hit faster when you do actually dps. Tbh my "rule" is keep it balanced, I like to run with 2x mastery 1x haste. Seems about fine. Also depends on what gear you get, as masterfrost I often got 2H haste gear from MGV...

[Varyk]

1. You should only use mastery/str, hit/str and pure str gems as generally 2hit/exp > 1str > 2 mastery. You should only sacrifice str in order to reach your hit/exp caps if you are not able to do this by reforging only, as you cannot reforge for str, but you can easily for hit/exp. But you already corrected that.

this isn't true anymore. secondary stats have twice the amount, thus...if they are weighed at least half of the value of strength, it is a dps increase to use haste or mastery gems (whichever takes priority for your spec). for instance. if str was weighted at 1 and haste was weighted at .62 a hit/haste gem would be a dps increase over a str/hit gem in a blue socket. you can't forget that you're getting twice as much.

[Rayaleith]

this isn't true anymore. secondary stats have twice the amount, thus...if they are weighed at least half of the value of strength, it is a dps increase to use haste or mastery gems (whichever takes priority for your spec). for instance. if str was weighted at 1 and haste was weighted at .62 a hit/haste gem would be a dps increase over a str/hit gem in a blue socket. you can't forget that you're getting twice as much.

This. Although I see

Str Crit Haste Mastery
1.00 0.30 0.42 0.35

WTF

i dont know if you care but you forgot bracer enchant

and yes. I do care... Believe it or not I could not find the bracer enchant for days...

[Deleted]

Stat weights from EJ are simulated with 509 gear so I really doubt they will fit your sims.

If you know your sims are quite right then I don't understand why you should not trust them.

In my opinion you should never gem for pure secondary stats, at least with your actual gear. Strenght will be valuable more than double than secondary stats (beside hit and expertise maybe). So go for str or str+haste/mastery or str+hit (or even exp+hit if you are below both caps).

[kaelleria]

You went way overboard....
Here are the stat weights for your gear -

Str Agi AP Exp Hit InvHit Crit Haste Mastery Wdps WOHdps
Scale Factors 3.26 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.95 1.34 1.16 0.00 0.00
Normalized 1.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.29 0.41 0.36 0.00 0.00

Keep in mind - mastery's value goes up in fights with a lot of cleave.

Note I didn't bother to sim hit/expertise, you should be capping those regardless.

[Rayaleith]

Yes found the same numbers. I am capped exp/hit and this was the primal reason I went to askmrrobot. From the weights it seems I should replace at least mastery/hit with str/hit, enchant my bracers and resim to see. So, your opinion (that goes to most of you here) is that pure 320 gems are for BiS gear only?

I was thinking on the other hand the fights in heroics modes that we are progressing. Stone guard I am the 3rd tank anyway, feng is single target apart from the little shits from the shield, Garajal... Well I don't think I will be in the team that goes to spirit world. We have only had 10-12 hard mode tries on this. I have completed the others only in normal. So, mastery it is?

Oh and thank you very much.

[kaelleria]

DW frost dks are actually very good in the spirit realm because of our AoE and self healing abilities.

[Deleted]

Yes found the same numbers. I am capped exp/hit and this was the primal reason I went to askmrrobot. From the weights it seems I should replace at least mastery/hit with str/hit, enchant my bracers and resim to see. So, your opinion (that goes to most of you here) is that pure 320 gems are for BiS gear only?

I was thinking on the other hand the fights in heroics modes that we are progressing. Stone guard I am the 3rd tank anyway, feng is single target apart from the little shits from the shield, Garajal... Well I don't think I will be in the team that goes to spirit world. We have only had 10-12 hard mode tries on this. I have completed the others only in normal. So, mastery it is?

Oh and thank you very much.

Well basically yes but you have to sim it to understand when you'll switch from pure strength to pure haste/mastery.