1. #1
    Warchief Freedom's Avatar
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    Help me help this WW Monk please

    We have a WW monk who is inexperienced who is nominally in group 1 but is actually sort of on the bench. I have no idea how to play a monk, so here's logs (before he got the fist off Gara'jal) for Stoneguard/Feng:
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...um/damageDone/
    I know Stoneguard sort of sucks for WW monks but try and look at his CD useage, debuff/buff uptime, etc.
    He did not use Askmrrobot until I suggested he did after the raid, and while I know askmrrobot can be unreliable for some classes I don't know about monks. Before he got his weapon Simcraft had him at 57.5k. He doesn't use any proc/buff/debuff trackers so I am helping him with that, and he does a mix of clicking and keybinding and he has no energy bar/ chi UI near his bars.

    Here is his armory now, Simc has him at 67k ish:
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...opopo/advanced
    I am going to buy him random things like gems/ shoulder enchant etc, he's also pretty poor as far as gold goes.

    He needs the PvP shoulders and he is valor cap away from Golden Lotus shoulders. I am guessing that trinket is bad for WW (the brewfest one) and he should also do headless horseman. He needs to drop crit a nd mastery pieces for more haste/ any BoE suggestions?
    Last edited by Freedom; 2012-10-24 at 12:59 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    Ok, I give up. This is pointless.
    Many Multitudes Online Constantly Harping About Minor Problems
    FIRE GIVES ME BIGGER BLOOD SHIELDS

  2. #2
    TBH all of your DPS in that raid is awful, but if simcraft has him at 10k more DPS than he previously had, what is he pulling now? If hes pulling 61k dps he isn't doing all that bad now in comparison.

  3. #3
    Deleted
    the first thing i see on his armory that he needs more haste so instead of agi and crit needs agi and haste gems. furthermore reforge optimalization would be good idea too cause he gems agi hit while he reforges hit away on serveral pieces. so just in general getting more haste is preffered so you have more energy to jab and generate more chi for BoK and RSK.

    the one thing i noticed compared to the same fight Feng where i dpsed instead of healed for my guild is that he is not using Fist of Fury enough. he only used it 2 times during the whole encounte. where i used it 10 times. it is a huge dps increase to use FoF as it is our highest dmg per chi ability but you need to plan ahead so you don;t do it when the tank is moving the boss.

    also his tiger power is only up 73% of the time which is too low. on my log its 93% which is still not good enough but should be as close to 100% as possible.
    also not using energizing brew on cooldown. only used 3 times during a 7 minute fight. it has a 1 min cd and should be used basically on cd to get maximum effect. for example he got 180 energy from it i got a total of 400 energy from it during the fight. this a 220 extra energy to spend on jab to get more chi.
    also he did not buff the legacy of the emperor for the 5% stat buff which according to the buffs gained he did not have at all during the fight. this is a huge difference 5% extra agi.

    in general it looks like he was missing quite some buffs no mastery buff or atk speed buff from the raid. also is he using 2 potions. if you pre pot at start of fight you will be able to use a second pot during the bloodlust. and 4k extra agi at start with popping all cd's makes a lot of difference.

    also in that fight just make sure to pop xuen on cd cause you can use him 3 times during the fight if you pop him immediatly at start and then on cd then instead of waiting for the bloodlust phase and then popping him. cause his lightning dot does not get affected by the extra atk speed so his dps increase is marginal there. try to time it with other things like a potion.

    also do not get carried to much away by what simc says.
    theoretical dps from simc is no where near accurate for a fight like feng where during epi you can't really do much dmg and have to run a lot from and too the boss so as melee that will always suck. and therefore your dps will be lower. for instance it is generally accepted that haste is the best stat for WW monks and simc says at heroic gear that crit is by far the better stat. so just cause simc says 67k doesn't mean he will make that on a fight. just because simc takes a patchwerk fight where you stand still 100% of the time and have a optimal uptime on all buffs and everything is 100% optimal. this will never ever be the case in a raid encounter en therefore should actually not be used in comparison to actual raid dps.

    this is basically what i would suggest to improve and try to get more buffs in your raid but if that is not a option then atleast make him buff you with his buff or get it from the druid that also did not seem to buff the raid with his buff.

    and also the weapon will defo help with dps cause weapon dps is the most important stat for a monk to increase dps.

    good luck with everything

  4. #4
    His Rising Sun Kick damage seems really low compared to his other hits. Make sure he's saving up some Chi for when RSK comes off CD, so it doesn't sit there off CD not being used for a GCD or two. As long as your energy won't cap, there's no harm in sitting on Chi.

    FoF is only a DPS increase when you use it right. If you Tiger Palm falls off, RSK comes off CD, your energy caps, or the boss moves, you lose DPS spending Chi on it. It isn't really a huge DPS increase and won't solve his problems. He could work it in but imo FoF is an advanced topic. Concentrate on the basics: double potting, uptime, getting as many RSK's in as possible, keeping up Tiger Palm stacks.

  5. #5
    Warchief Freedom's Avatar
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    I'll link him this thread. We have had DPS issues (Gara'jal was painful for progression but we one shot him this week with 38 seconds left on enrage) but I am the warrior so I am not that worried about my spot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    Ok, I give up. This is pointless.
    Many Multitudes Online Constantly Harping About Minor Problems
    FIRE GIVES ME BIGGER BLOOD SHIELDS

  6. #6
    Deleted
    Looking at the Stone Guard logs:

    I'd like to point out the Tiger Power issue as well; it should be refreshed when there's less than 3 seconds remaining on Tiger Power, yet he lets it fall off all the time. Which leads to a considerable dps loss as you both don't have the buff anymore, and you'll need to tiger palm 2x extra to get it back to 3 stacks, which is less damage than a blackout kick could have done.

    Rising Sun Kick was used 28x in 6min26, which is 1 rising sun kick per 13.8 seconds. RSK has a 8 second cooldown and should be used as much as possible; in 6min26s you should be able to use 48 RSKs theoretically.

    The Brewfest trinket is considerably worse than the 463 blue trinkets from heroics. The Zen Alchemist Stone, or Windswept Pages from Temple of the Jade Serpent are a lot better.

    Fists of Fury should only be used if all ticks hit the boss; 2 out of the 3 times he used it, it only hit 2 or 3 times which is a dps loss compared to just using blackout kick.

  7. #7
    Here are some comparebots I ran against some 200 ranked WWs who have similar fight lengths.

    Stone Guards: http://raidbots.com/comparebot/50880...9000c84#damage

    Things to note -
    • These people being compared with him are only 3-4 iLevels higher than he is.
    • As noted, his RSK damage is really low. In a perfect world you would use it every 8 seconds for 7.5 times per minute. In your fight that would be 48 times. He used it 28 times or once every 14 seconds. Using it on cooldown would net him another 4k dps. Furthermore, it applies a 15 second debuff that only had an uptime of 84%. There's no reason why that shouldn't be 99.9% seeing as the CD is 8 seconds and the debuff is 15 seconds.
    • His Melee/BoK/Tiger Palm hits per minute are all very low. This is probably due to his low haste.
    • His Tiger Power uptime is only 66% That buff needs to be up near 100% of the time. The other 2 have it up around 98.5% of the time. [Expression Editor View]
    • Just looking at his first few attacks via expression editor and you can see that he's pretty much ignoring his Combo Breaker procs. He shoudn't be continuting to Jab until he gets rid of his combo-breaker procs.
    • Fists of Fury is much lower than the other 2. FoF is used when you don't have much energy regen and you've managed to get 3 chi and have some spare time. With their haste they managed to fit FoF 4x more than he did in the fight.
    • He's only using Energizing Brew half as much as the other 2.
    • He casted Crackling Jade Lightning and Chi Wave, why?


    Feng: http://raidbots.com/comparebot/50880...00000a4#damage

    • He did much better on this fight as far as Jabs/BoKs/TPs go.
    • Tiger Power still very low.
    • Rising Sun Kick still not being used enough and the debuff uptime is still too low.
    • Again, he's not following his Combo Breaker procs.
    • Low fists of fury.
    • Casted Chi Wave 12 times?



    Simply following correct gemming/enchanting/reforging: http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/usa/sargeras/zopopo
    He will gain over 1000 haste up to 4217.

  8. #8
    Deleted
    well i need to say that although casting chi wave is ofcourse a dps loss it can be needed especially in progress and if your healers are lacking a bit.
    had it in my own 10 man where on some high dmg encounters i would use expel harm to ofc heal myself and use chi wave to help out with some extra healing while doing dmg. 12 times is maybe a bit much as it should not be used rotationally but it can help get a boss kill where it may otherwise be a wipe.

  9. #9
    Immortal Nikkaszal's Avatar
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    Expel Harm, yes - absolutely should be used and abused seeing as not only does it grant you a nice self heal but it also shits all over Jab's tiny damage (so long as its effective healing, of course).

    Chi Wave and the other lvl 30 talents are another kettle of fish entirely. They should only be used when the healers are in real trouble, or you know for certain you're about to die. "Helping healers out" is all well and good, but if the healers actually have things under control then all those spells will do is crash your DPS.

    A good raid leader or healing team co-coordinator should yell out something simple like "survival" when things get rough to let the DPS know it's time to start using all their self-healing and other assorted defensive stuff, and just trust the healing team team to do their job otherwise.
    Last edited by Nikkaszal; 2012-10-25 at 12:45 PM.
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  10. #10
    Deleted
    Just take the Stone Guards parse as an example, and I found out the following:


    RSK Debuff 84.4% Uptime, Tiger Power 66%. These two things, you want them at 100%.

    Fists of Fury should be used on CD.

    Chi wave is shit, don't use that. Trust your healers. It never heals the target you want to heal anyway.

    Pots uptime 18.1 sec. This number should be at somewhere around 48 sec. It's not all that expensive anyway.

    Crackling Jade Lightning. What's that and why did he spend 4.4 sec channeling it?

    Tigereye Brew should be used once it reaches 10 Stacks, and it has an effective CD of around 45 sec. He had 4x in a 6 min something fight.

    Energizing Brew has a 60 sec CD. He only did it 3x in the 6 min fight. Wasted energy is better than a wasted CD.


    Once he get used to the basics of the "rotation", then he can start trying to stack the cooldowns like TB, Pots, Lust, Tiger, and any other boosts that specific encounters may provide, all on top of each other whenever possible.



    Oh, btw, you should actually 2-heal elegon, or you probably won't meet the dps requirement anyway
    Last edited by mmocd512434992; 2012-10-25 at 01:12 PM.

  11. #11
    Bloodsail Admiral scvd's Avatar
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    I swear to god, everyone has tier.

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