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  1. #21
    The Patient Abominator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbhasban View Post
    http://www.turner-white.com/pdf/jcom_nov09_diet.pdf

    Diets differing in macronutrient characteristics (fat, protein, and carbohydrate) achieved equivalent weight loss.

    http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/arti...ticleid=415074

    A low-carbohydrate plant-based diet has lipid-lowering advantages over a high-carbohydrate, low-fat weight-loss diet in improving heart disease risk factors not seen with conventional low-fat diets with animal products. BUT of the 47 subjects, 44 (94%) (test, n = 22 [92%]; control, n = 22 [96%]) completed the study. Weight loss was similar for both diets (approximately 4.0 kg). (Essentially a high-carb diet may be bad for your heart).

    http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/95/3/614.short

    Conclusion: Participants lost more fat than lean mass after consumption of all diets, with no differences in changes in body composition, abdominal fat, or hepatic fat between assigned macronutrient amounts. This trial was registered at clinicaltrials.gov as NCT00072995.

    I can go on and on if you want. I have read the insulin studies that you are referring to but all they show is that higher insulin levels are associated with fat gain/retention. Which, honestly, isn't a big surprising considering people who eat a lot tend to have higher insulin levels. In addition, you cannot simply look at how insulin effects fat gain without also looking at the rest of the body. Perhaps insulin does make you retain fat. Perhaps it also promotes another hormone that makes you lose fat. The only way to truly test these diets is through clinical trials of people on such diets, not through looking at mechanisms. Mechanisms are interesting but until we have a complete view of the human body, which we are woefully far away from, they are nothing more. They cannot be used to extrapolate conclusions.

    BTW, I am a highly educated professional. Do not think I would believe for a second something I read on a bodybuilding website without first checking its source.

    I realize that none of these studies tested the traditional 0-10% carbohydrates that atkins promotes so it is entirely possible that once you reach a certain threshold of carbohydrates/insulin, it makes no difference whether you have more. However, such an interpretation strikes me as quite odd and less logical than my belief that our understanding of the insulin mechanisms is simply woefully inadequate.

    BTW, google scholar has a surprising number of free articles. But I do have access to Yale's library for when I run into an article I cannot get "for free".

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1....2008.529/full

    In rats, atkins diet resulted in body weight loss (not body fat percentage decrease) and then in body weight gain above and beyond the baseline. Essentially atkins creates a situation where the rats would gain weight once they returned to a regular diet despite the fact that they were eating less calories than the control group.
    I was merely referring to insulins role in storing fat and not the direct control of insulin levels as within a ketogenic diet to promote fat loss. In reality insulin levels don't flucuate that much, type 1 diabetics will have less or no endogenous insulin depending on the progression of the disease, type 2 diabetics will have the same amount of insulin as a normal person, it'll just be less effective. You also have to remember that 20-30% of the population who aren't type 2 diabetics have some form of insulin resistance due to over eating.

    That aside insulin and glucagon levels are the leading theory for short term fat control where as leptin levels or lipostatic theory is the leading theory for long term fat control. In the end insulin does play a massive role in weight loss or gain. Even on a ketogenic diet insulin levels never drop below a certain point, as does blood glucose levels which cap of at 2.5 mMol/L.
    Last edited by Abominator; 2012-10-25 at 03:23 AM.

  2. #22
    When trying to lose weight, people overestimate the importance of exercise and underestimate the importance of diet.
    Your body spends about 1600 calories/day on basic life sustain and only about 400-600 calories/day on physical activity and exercise.

    Increasing your physical activity has fairly negligible effect compared to limiting your daily calorie intake via food.

  3. #23
    I am Murloc! ita's Avatar
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    I've been using soy diet for ages now. It works like a charm and I dont think it's unhealthy.

    The thing is that soy has really low calories so I can eat till Im full and still not eat more than 1200-1500kcal a day. I basically just eat soy flakes, soy cutlets etc and apples and take some vitamins supplements for a few weeks when I need to lose a few pounts and it always works, I lose maybe 0.5-1kg per week like that.
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  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by ita View Post
    I've been using soy diet for ages now. It works like a charm and I dont think it's unhealthy.

    The thing is that soy has really low calories so I can eat till Im full and still not eat more than 1200-1500kcal a day. I basically just eat soy flakes, soy cutlets etc and apples and take some vitamins supplements for a few weeks when I need to lose a few pounts and it always works, I lose maybe 0.5-1kg per week like that.
    Soy is not low calorie, the fuck? A cup of beans is 800 calories.

  5. #25
    The Patient
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    I maintain low carbs and low sugar, with a very high intake of protein, im losing about 10 pounds a month at this rate, and im not an obese person to be tearing off fat, oh and i workout for 45 minutes a day. so im basically eating about 1200-1500 calories a day, no more than 10 carbs, and basically no more than like 10g a sugar a day. with my workout i burn anywhere from 700-1200 calories a day (this is tested), it's the TapoutXT program.

    EDIT: i suppose i do have more than 10g a sugar and carbs a day but from fruits, not from breads and other things of that sort.
    Last edited by Pacabra; 2012-11-04 at 03:13 AM.

  6. #26
    The Patient Abominator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pacabra View Post
    I maintain low carbs and low sugar, with a very high intake of protein, im losing about 10 pounds a month at this rate, and im not an obese person to be tearing off fat, oh and i workout for 45 minutes a day. so im basically eating about 1200-1500 calories a day, no more than 10 carbs, and basically no more than like 10g a sugar a day. with my workout i burn anywhere from 700-1200 calories a day (this is tested), it's the TapoutXT program.

    EDIT: i suppose i do have more than 10g a sugar and carbs a day but from fruits, not from breads and other things of that sort.
    Carbs=Sugar so first of all you're looking at 20 grams or more of carbs which is quite low, secondly you really shouldn't be eating any sugar unless it's fructose from fruit for examples. I think your estimates are way off and at the very least your diet is unhealthy. You should probably look into atleast upping your carb intake.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Abominator View Post
    Carbs=Sugar so first of all you're looking at 20 grams or more of carbs which is quite low, secondly you really shouldn't be eating any sugar unless it's fructose from fruit for examples. I think your estimates are way off and at the very least your diet is unhealthy. You should probably look into atleast upping your carb intake.
    Eh, seems like a fairly healthy bodybuilding cut diet as far as such diets are concerned. Certainly isn't maintainable, though.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Pacabra View Post
    I maintain low carbs and low sugar, with a very high intake of protein, im losing about 10 pounds a month at this rate, and im not an obese person to be tearing off fat, oh and i workout for 45 minutes a day. so im basically eating about 1200-1500 calories a day, no more than 10 carbs, and basically no more than like 10g a sugar a day. with my workout i burn anywhere from 700-1200 calories a day (this is tested), it's the TapoutXT program.

    EDIT: i suppose i do have more than 10g a sugar and carbs a day but from fruits, not from breads and other things of that sort.
    Eating 1200-1500, tranining 700-1200

    If those numbers were true, you'd be dead in about 2-3 days.

  9. #29
    The Unstoppable Force RICH816's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romeo83x View Post
    Eating 1200-1500, tranining 700-1200

    If those numbers were true, you'd be dead in about 2-3 days.
    You could survive a lot longer than that if well hydrated, but you are fucked in the end. I do want to know where he got the idea of burning 1200 calories per workout though, thats half a marathon per workout!

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by RICH1471 View Post
    You could survive a lot longer than that if well hydrated, but you are fucked in the end. I do want to know where he got the idea of burning 1200 calories per workout though, thats half a marathon per workout!
    Uh, wtf? You burn more than 100 calories a mile depending on your weight and how fast you run it. I burn around 500 calories in 3 miles.

  11. #31
    The Unstoppable Force RICH816's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbhasban View Post
    Uh, wtf? You burn more than 100 calories a mile depending on your weight and how fast you run it. I burn around 500 calories in 3 miles.
    Yes, and a marathon is 26 miles. thats 2600 calories for someone thats very fit, doesnt that kind of prove my point?

    Quote Originally Posted by RICH1471 View Post
    You could survive a lot longer than that if well hydrated, but you are fucked in the end. I do want to know where he got the idea of burning 1200 calories per workout though, thats half a marathon per workout!

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by RICH1471 View Post
    Yes, and a marathon is 26 miles. thats 2600 calories for someone thats very fit, doesnt that kind of prove my point?
    26*500/3 = 4333.333 calories. And I am very fit, thanks.

  13. #33
    problem with the shake.diets is.. you get used to eat that. but what will you eat when youve lost your weight?
    its not exactly healthy and i believe that most of them recommend you dont replace every meal with it, but rather 2 (asuming you eat 3 meals a day)

    but the best way to lose weight through a diet is..
    eating healthy food, and not a whole lot of it. just eat slow and drink a lot of water while eating..

    My gf has put herself on a diet and she does that. it works nicely - and she both loves the food and cooking, so its a win win
    In Memorial of the Sword Guy

  14. #34
    Let me preface this in saying I don't have any special knowledge to losing weight, only the vital things really.

    I ended my freshman year of college back in May at around 260lbs and have since lost roughly 48lbs. My diet consists of mostly fruits/vegetables with fish and generally whatever my mother makes for dinner I've never delved into any skeptical fads or diets.

    But, I exercise everyday: about an hour on the treadmill and I started Insanity not too long ago. A poster above said people fixate on exercise too much and not enough focus on diet, but for me my exercise habits were always poor and my diet only need some small adjustments.
    Last edited by Schirm; 2012-11-04 at 04:51 PM.

  15. #35
    The Unstoppable Force RICH816's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbhasban View Post
    26*500/3 = 4333.333 calories. And I am very fit, thanks.
    http://www.livestrong.com/article/21...half-marathon/

    http://www.livestrong.com/article/30...ng-a-marathon/

    http://www.runnersworld.com/cda/calo...e=Pounds&x=&y=
    Thats for someone of a healthy weight

    http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_c...ing_a_marathon

    http://www.active.com/running/Articl...on_fueling.htm

    All of these sources support my statement, I could find more but those are just from the front page of a search engine.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by RICH1471 View Post

    I don't run outside often so I use treadmill calculations: http://42.195km.net/e/treadsim/. I run for 30 mins at a 8 mph pace at a 3 percent gradient at 190 lbs. That's 675 in 30 mins. Now, if I were to go 6 mph instead, I would burn 512.

    150 lbs is healthy, yeah, but it's really low muscle mass too.

  17. #37
    Diets work. What makes them fail is what you do after the diet. (This isn't to say they're healthy).

    Even the shake diets work, but you need to realize that if you lose 20 pounds in a month, you haven't lost 20 pounds of fat. You've lost probably 12 pounds of water retention, 6 pounds of "crap" from your bowls, and maybe 2 pounds of fat... So you can't simply hit your goal weight and go back to eating as you used too. You need to do the full course, and when you re-introduce food, don't go back to your old eating habits.

    That being said, I personally couldn't live off shakes and I question how healthy such a diet would be.

    I do however, support Low Carb dieting for weight loss. No, I didn't say "No Carb" nor did I say Atkins (although in all honesty I know nothing about the Atkins diet other than it's low or no carb), I'm simply referring to a low carb, high protein, healthy way of eating.

    I personally had a weight struggle after a long term injury, and this is how I lost weight. I cut out Bread & Pasta entirely along with most sugar (i.e. in Coffee, cereals, Fruit etc). I ate a lot of fresh (raw) vegges, skinless chicken, Fish (not tinned, and not breaded/crumbed), eggs, Oats, Red Meat (3 times/week max), Avacado's... you get the idea.

    For starer's, I'd never felt so good... I never got tested, but I do wonder if I'm gluten intolerant because even before I put on the weight I'd never felt so good, and with minimal exercise (was still recovering my injury) the weight just melted off. One week I tried to re-introduce bread (high fiber, whole-grain bread) as it was easier to take sandwiches to work. Not only did my weight loss grind to a halt, but I went back to feeling sleepy/bloated after lunch.

    I have a few friends who are really into Paleo/Primal with their crossFit (note: these guys are FIT) and from what I gather it's similar to what I did, just stricter. Basically eating like cavemen did and eliminating all processed foods. Can't see the harm in it, but it's a bit too strict to be convenient!

  18. #38
    Crash diets don't work because people try to completely change their lifestyle in a day, which almost always fails because people will go nuts with cravings.

    What I did back in February was cut out one fattening food every few weeks. First it was soda, which was easily the hardest for me. Then it was junk food, then fast food, then most of my juice drinks (However, I still drink Orange Juice when I wake up in the mornings, but I drink it with fruit, which from what I understand helps process the suger in it better). I eat whatever I like, but the big thing is I eat REAL food with REAL ingredients. Not synthetic. Read labels, don't look at calories or carbs, but look at the ingredients, if it has more than a few and you can't read the name, then don't eat that.

    Doing this I have gone from 320 in Feb to 250 now. 20 of that was in the past 3 months when I started eating less just from stopping drinking sugary drinks almost entirely.


    I am also slowly working myself into exercising. Trying to do those hour long workout regiments would probably kill me, so I'm starting slow, working up how many of each routine I can do.

    TLDR: Eat real food, not synthetic crap.

    Other things; Fat isn't bad for you, in fact eating fat might actually promote weight loss because your body has to work harder to process it.

    NATURAL sugar is ok in strict moderation. My glass of OJ in the morning has quite a bit of sugar in it, as does the fruit I eat, but it doesn't cause me to gain weight at all.

    Eat breakfast. It gets your metabolism rolling which promotes weight loss.

    Try to eat at the same time every day. Well, I'm not exactly sure why on this one but that is what was recommended to me and it seems to help.
    Last edited by IIBloodXLustII; 2012-11-10 at 04:56 PM.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaellen View Post
    Crash diets don't work because people try to completely change their lifestyle in a day, which almost always fails because people will go nuts with cravings.

    What I did back in February was cut out one fattening food every few weeks. First it was soda, which was easily the hardest for me. Then it was junk food, then fast food, then most of my juice drinks (However, I still drink Orange Juice when I wake up in the mornings, but I drink it with fruit, which from what I understand helps process the suger in it better). I eat whatever I like, but the big thing is I eat REAL food with REAL ingredients. Not synthetic. Read labels, don't look at calories or carbs, but look at the ingredients, if it has more than a few and you can't read the name, then don't eat that.

    Doing this I have gone from 320 in Feb to 250 now. 20 of that was in the past 3 months when I started eating less just from stopping drinking sugary drinks almost entirely.


    I am also slowly working myself into exercising. Trying to do those hour long workout regiments would probably kill me, so I'm starting slow, working up how many of each routine I can do.

    TLDR: Eat real food, not synthetic crap.

    Other things; Fat isn't bad for you, in fact eating fat might actually promote weight loss because your body has to work harder to process it.

    NATURAL sugar is ok in strict moderation. My glass of OJ in the morning has quite a bit of sugar in it, as does the fruit I eat, but it doesn't cause me to gain weight at all.

    Eat breakfast. It gets your metabolism rolling which promotes weight loss.

    Try to eat at the same time every day. Well, I'm not exactly sure why on this one but that is what was recommended to me and it seems to help.
    1) fat is the most easily digested food. Your expends virtually no energy digesting it and utilizing its energy.
    2) fat will promote weight loss because it satiates.
    3) all sugar is ok for you in moderation... as is butter or any other food.
    4) synthetic crap can promote weight loss (artificial sugars, for instance) because it works as a substitute for calories
    5) eating on a schedule promotes weight loss for the same reason setting appointments promotes work in business, it makes you less likely to deviate
    6) best way to lose weight is to stay away from temptation and keep to a plan, whatever that plan may be.

  20. #40
    It's what are system produces; garbage in, garbage out. The media influences their thinking by saying they can be helped by simple shakes, pills, diets, blah blah blah. In reality though, its all a scame always will be a scam. The best medicine is WHOLE foods. Thats NUTRITION. The media knows AMerica got health problems and they try to fix it, but before you ask for help, YOU HAVE TO HELP YOURSELF.

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